Ammo dilema for Rifle/2-gun matches...

Detritus

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Have been meaning to ask this for awhile.
While looking into the what and where of 2-gun type matches in NC, I realized I currently have a problem ammo-wise. I own two rifles that are even somewhat appropriate to the type of match I've been wanting to try, An AR and an M1 Garand. the ammo I currently have on hand for both of these rifles would appear to be on the "if you do you're an A-hole" list due to being considered AP. ie surplus Brit M855 equivalent for the AR, and Greek Surplus 30-06 from the CMP, which until proven otherwise I have to assume is the M2.

So basics are unless there is a 2-gun venue, discipline, etc that does not use steel for rifle targets I'm kind of looking for info or recommendations on what to buy either cheap ammo or reloading components. so that I can use either of my current rifles in said matches.

either that or help finding a place that doesn't use steel, guidance on how to tell if my 30-06 fodder is or is not steel-core, or any other helpful info.

thanks
 
http://palmettostatearmory.com/magtech-cbc-5-56mm-xm193-55gr-fmj-1000-round-ammo-can-556mil.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/independence-5-56-nato-55gr-fmj-ammunition-20rds-xm193i.html

This should work if you want good brass cased stuff.

I run this stuff because I'm a brasswhore and don't want to have think if I got my brass back. Lol

http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-5...fmj-wolf-wpa-polyformance-or-military-classic


For the 30-06 i got nothing. Out of my wheelhouse.

Thank you, and i'll look into those

I knew I was forgetting something though! seems a few ranges out there (Frontline Defense popping to mind since they are a close to me example), place XM193 in the same boat as XM855 RE: "don't shoot our steel with this" due to having a muzzle velocity over 3100fps, on the main section of the site under range safety Frontline specifically makes mention of xm193 as being banned due to the velocity, but on the match pages for their multi-gun and sniper matches they separate "No armor piercing, tracer, green tip or steel core rifle ammo" and the proscription against ammo with higher than 3100fps muzzle velocity (and that only on the page for the Sniper match, not on the multi-gun page). also suspect to me is the fact that all the ammo banned by name/Muzle velocity is 556/223, the XM80 7.62 isn't on the list... but I digress, something isn't adding up for me.

and actually the fact that at least one range that folks keep telling me to check out, effectively bans the two most commonly available .223/5.56 loads is a good portion of why I decided to start this thread. I mean seriously if I have to buy non-surplus (ie expensive ammo) to be able to shoot a match my drive to look into any form of multi-gun is gonna slow considerably while I work out an economical handload for these two rifles.
 
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Thank you, and i'll look into those

I knew I was forgetting something though! seems a few ranges out there (Frontline Defense popping to mind since they are a close to me example), place XM193 in the same boat as XM855 RE: "don't shoot our steel with this" due to having a muzzle velocity over 3100fps, on the main section of the site under range safety Frontline specifically makes mention of xm193 as being banned due to the velocity, but on the match pages for their multi-gun and sniper matches they separate "No armor piercing, tracer, green tip or steel core rifle ammo" and the proscription against ammo with higher than 3100fps muzzle velocity (and that only on the page for the Sniper match, not on the multi-gun page). also suspect to me is the fact that all the ammo banned by name/Muzle velocity is 556/223, the XM80 7.62 isn't on the list and that stuff specs at 3250fps... but I digress, something isn't adding up for me.

and actually the fact that at least one range that folks keep telling me to check out, effectively bans the two most commonly available .223/5.56 loads is a good portion of why I decided to start this thread. I mean seriously if I have to buy non-surplus (ie expensive ammo) to be able to shoot a match my drive to look into any form of multi-gun is gonna slow considerably while I work out an economical handload for these two rifles.
@Frontline Defense Can better answer those questions himself.
 
Keep in mind if match uses steel, the bullet jacket cannot be bi-metal. Many will check with magnet. If match includes longer range, Hornady steel match 75gr works well.
Metal in bullets beat the heck out of steel and steel is expensive.
 
62 grain lead (no steel core!) can usually be found pretty cheap and will be lower velocity than the 55s.
As someone said - watch out for the steel jacketed, often "copper washed" (barely plated), bullets. Even that isn't nice to the steel.

I would love to shoot a Garand at a 2 gun match (with a 45 1911 of course), but just for grins. It wouldn't be competitive at all. But it would be a blast.
Hmmmm... Garand at the next Wake County range rifle match would be cool. Have to load some up though.
 
Metal in bullets beat the heck out of steel and steel is expensive.

Oh I fully understand the reasoning behind not allowing AP (green tip 5.56, black tip 30-06, and various unmarked equivalents), and (to a lesser extent) bi-metal jackets.
Club I belonged to in Texas, had a 300yrd gong with more craters than a bomb range, because that club's Silhouette area is co-located with the "everything past 100yrds" area, and the gong is permanently mounted to the Pig rail, and if it's there bubba's gonna shoot it and he's not going to pay attention to any damn rules RE: shooting the gong with certain ammo unless an RO/club officer is around.

FLD's ban on xm193 is a little more of a head scratcher but that's his business, i'm sure there are good reasons, and I'm not gonna argue.

just wondering what folks that do shoot multi gun/run and gun type rifle matches are feeding their ARs, and if there is another crazy out there (john Z?) shooting a Garand in such a match what they're taking. again hand load advice is welcome too.

I really need to go see if a magnet sticks to the HXP surplus I have or not, like I said I think I was told that stuff is AP M2 instead of Ball M2 but not sure.
 
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People shoot xm193 type ammo all the time at 3 gun matches. I would be surprised if this was different at a 2-gun match. (Except perhaps frontline) Check out rules on 3 gun nation web page., and each match usually has something published or mentions whose rules they follow.

Precision rifle matches place limits on weights and velocities.

That specific mention of xm-193 on frontline' main page is very odd to me, but American eagle 223 ok, or any other 223 55gr? Will be interesting what frontline defense says
 
That specific mention of xm-193 on frontline' main page is very odd to me, but American eagle 223 ok, or any other 223 55gr? Will be interesting what frontline defense says

Same here, that one kind of threw me. like I said I understand and agree with not allowing the various SS109 (Xm855 etc) derivatives they're designed to punch holes steel. but banning what is still the most common and affordable 55gr loading, is odd. Maybe he'll see this and give a reason.
If not it's no skin off my nose, I just won't be able to participate in any matches or classes up there until I have a different load worked out/on hand.
 
Currently, ZSA has 1- 2 gun rifle/pistol match in the area, the 4th Friday night at 37PSR. We will be adding another in Hubert (Jacksonville) very soon. The distance at 37PSR is not that long on the bays, so we use all paper, making any ammo ok, no tracers. Here's the deal guys, we have shooters and we have match directors/range owners. Shooters want to shoot as close to home for as cheap as they can. Range owners/match directors want to provide SAFE matches that are FUN and don't take 14 hours to shoot, AND they hope to make a few $$ to cover expenses. Holes in EXPENSIVE steel targets don't translate into profit. Shooters, please try to understand this, and match directors, please understand the shooters point of view. I personally love my M1 Garand for 2 gun, but I do load for it with non metal bullets. Some may not reload, maybe get up with a friend that does and split the time and cost with him.
 
ns the two most commonly available .223/5.56 loads is a good portion of why I decided to start this thread. I mean seriously if I have to buy non-surplus (ie expensive ammo) to be able to shoot a match my drive to look into any form of multi-gun is gonna slow considerably while I work out an economical handload for these two rifles.

Sell your 'surplus' stuff and buy new 55 grain brass cased ammo. Because of the scare a year or two ago about green tip, that fetches a premium- you'll make money. I use wikiarms. Just looked- reloaded brass is 18c a round. Green tip is almost double that. New brass 55gr is only 26c/round.

At 18c a round, you'd have a hard time reloading for that, even if your time is free.
 
I don't think Central Carolina Gun Club in Burlington uses any steel for their two gun matches.

Almost everyone at PHA that doesn't handload is likely using a variant of M193 (cheap) or Wolf 55gr. It's probable everyone handloading is running 55 fmjs at who knows what, I chrono'd mine once but don't recall. Isn't that 3100 spec out of a 20"?

To check your garand ammo use a good magnet, it'll stick or it won't.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 
62 grain lead (no steel core!) can usually be found pretty cheap and will be lower velocity than the 55s.
As someone said - watch out for the steel jacketed, often "copper washed" (barely plated), bullets. Even that isn't nice to the steel.

I would love to shoot a Garand at a 2 gun match (with a 45 1911 of course), but just for grins. It wouldn't be competitive at all. But it would be a blast.
Hmmmm... Garand at the next Wake County range rifle match would be cool. Have to load some up though.
Pha is running a vintage two gun next month. There's a thread here somewhere. Betting they won't have steel for that, old school battle rifles MIGHT not punch holes or massive craers, but they'll tear the hell out of mounts and welds at short range.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk

I'm like a day too slow on everything I posted in this thread. [emoji53]
 
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Anybody have an idea of round count for this??
http://falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4475544 has a thread running about it

If you're a crack shot, you'll only need 51 rounds. Otherwise, bring more
smile.gif
 
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that link leads to a thread on "The Military Rifle Match Mod 2.0" at Charlotte Rifle & Pistol Club. the first of which looks to have been held today, with another in Nov. I may look into the Nov match, looks to be modified steel challenge for military rifles, and sounds cool.

unfortunately doesn't answer as to round count for Vintage 2-gun.. I've emailed the contact from the webpage, we'll see what they say :)

Edit: went rummaging around, Found the thread for the vintage 2-gun over there http://falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415913 . still can't find a round count, will register,(wait for confirmation email...) and post over there as well to see what pops.
 
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that link leads to a thread on "The Military Rifle Match Mod 2.0" at Charlotte Rifle & Pistol Club. the first of which looks to have been held today, with another in Nov. I may look into the Nov match, looks to be modified steel challenge for military rifles, and sounds cool.

unfortunately doesn't answer as to round count for Vintage 2-gun.. I've emailed the contact from the webpage, we'll see what they say :)

Edit: went rummaging around, Found the thread for the vintage 2-gun over there http://falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415913 . still can't find a round count, will register,(wait for confirmation email...) and post over there as well to see what pops.
I stand corrected. I could swear I stole the link from that thread...
 
For those curious, round count for the PHA Vintage 2-Gun Match is approximately 65 rifle, 35 pistol. Only one hit needed per paper rifle target as opposed to two, and one stage out to 200 yards.

Here's the Practiscore link. Registration will open on 9/14. You MUST register in advance. https://practiscore.com/pha-vintage-2-gun/register

I uploaded the rulebook PDF to the page as well, but it looks like it won't show up until registration opens. beseventeen or I will start a separate thread for the match once registration opens.
 
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I stand corrected. I could swear I stole the link from that thread...
wasn't meant as a complaint, just a "so that you are aware..", pretty sure I've done the same in the past (copied the wrong link and/or similar).

and it made me aware of the other match which is a good thing. :)

For those curious, round count for the PHA Vintage 2-Gun Match is approximately 65 rifle, 35 pistol. Only one hit needed per paper rifle target as opposed to two, and one stage out to 200 yards.

Here's the Practiscore link. Registration will open on 9/14. You MUST register in advance. https://practiscore.com/pha-vintage-2-gun/register

I uploaded the rulebook PDF to the page as well, but it looks like it won't show up until registration opens. beseventeen or I will start a separate thread for the match once registration opens.

thank you for the information. I'll have to go inventory my 30-06 tomorrow afternoon.
 
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Thanks for your interest guys - updated the website and FB with the round count today! Hope to see you there!!
 
Is there a course of fire somewhere or did i miss it? I saw mention of 100 & 200 yds targets??

We've just released a couple stages for now (check out our FB page for the stage briefs). Yessir. The long range stage we are still ironing out. We will definitely have steel at 200 yards. We are having a discussion about setting up steel at the 100 yard berm as well (in that same stage).
 
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