AR-10 info help

DirtySCREW

DirtySCREW

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I'm asking for a friend as well as myself. What do I need to know on building an AR10? Is it any different than building an AR 15?
What is the going price for AR10 stripped lowers? 80% lowers?

I would assume it's the same as building a 15. Any special tools needed? 20" barrel the "norm"?

Sorry for these probably basic questions...but when you don't know....you don't know. I can't very well advise him if I'm in the dark too...lol

DS
 
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DirtySCREW said:
I'm asking for a friend as well as myself. What do I need to know on building an AR10? Is it any different than building an AR 15?
What is the going price for AR10 stripped lowers? 80% lowers?

I would assume it's the same as building a 15. Any special tools needed? 20" barrel the "norm"?

Sorry for these probably basic questions...but when you don't know....you don't know. I can't very well advise him if I'm in the dark too...lol

DS
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It's very different from an AR-15 in all the most costly aspects. Luckily, there's a great dedicated online community that can get you up to speed at http://forum.308ar.com/

Loads of great info there.
 
Matt.Cross said:
It's very different from an AR-15 in all the most costly aspects. Luckily, there's a great dedicated online community that can get you up to speed at http://forum.308ar.com/

Loads of great info there.
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Thanks Matt.Cross.

I was gonna check out what AR15.com said, but wanted some more trustworthy info here first. I'll definitely check out the 308AR site!

DS

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 
I truly admire those with the dedication an skill to build their own.
Me? Not so sure. It would be cool if there was enough interest to have a meet and greet and build if it is something that can be done in a day.
 
There's a good many intrinsics to the larger AR, luckily they're tamed fairly easily. Doing your research will save you a fortune and loads of irritation.
 
fishgutzy said:
I truly admire those with the dedication an skill to build their own.
Me? Not so sure. It would be cool if there was enough interest to have a meet and greet and build if it is something that can be done in a day.
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Building it in a day is no problem. Where you run into issues is with vendors who market items without being clear on compatibility, so the challenge is to have all the right parts. Putting it all together is the easy part.
 
Matt.Cross said:
Building it in a day is no problem. Where you run into issues is with vendors who market items without being clear on compatibility, so the challenge is to have all the right parts. Putting it all together is the easy part.
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So building one that is similar in quality to butting a Sig 716 but lower cost is possible?
S&W M&P10 is pretty bare bones and would end up costing as must add the Sig716 to and the upgrades.
It will be a while before I could buy anyway.
You'd think somebody would have developed a tool to create a BOM based on one's chosen specs.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
fishgutzy said:
So building one that is similar in quality to butting a Sig 716 but lower cost is possible?
S&W M&P10 is pretty bare bones and would end up costing as must add the Sig716 to and the upgrades.
It will be a while before I could buy anyway.
You'd think somebody would have developed a tool to create a BOM based on one's chosen specs.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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You can easily surpass the quality of the Sig 716 for less. The piston is part of what makes the Sig so expensive, it's an unnecessary reinvention of the wheel.

Give me an idea of what you want to do and I can point you in the right direction.
 
When I get around to it, if I had the budget,
quad rail for more mounting options of accessories as need/wanted.
20 inch barrel. I'd have to get input on the various stock options as I am still a wicked noob. Our rifles at home are M&P15 Sport and M&P15-22. So a 308/7.62x51 is the natural next step.
I'm don't think trying to build a 1K yard rifle is up my ally. But if I can get to the point of skill for a decent 250 yard group that would be cool.
Can this class be used for hog or deer hunting in NC? I've never hunted so it is more hypothetical at this point.
[I mentioned the Sig 716 because because I current have custody of my BIL"s MA compliant (or formerly MA compliant idf that crap is upheld) will his misdemeanor goes through the courts. MA revokes the permits of anyone even charged with DUI but not convicted. Once revoked, can't have even spent casing in the house. ]
 
fishgutzy said:
When I get around to it, if I had the budget,
quad rail for more mounting options of accessories as need/wanted.
20 inch barrel. I'd have to get input on the various stock options as I am still a wicked noob. Our rifles at home are M&P15 Sport and M&P15-22. So a 308/7.62x51 is the natural next step.
I'm don't think trying to build a 1K yard rifle is up my ally. But if I can get to the point of skill for a decent 250 yard group that would be cool.
Can this class be used for hog or deer hunting in NC? I've never hunted so it is more hypothetical at this point.
[I mentioned the Sig 716 because because I current have custody of my BIL"s MA compliant (or formerly MA compliant idf that crap is upheld) will his misdemeanor goes through the courts. MA revokes the permits of anyone even charged with DUI but not convicted. Once revoked, can't have even spent casing in the house. ]
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It's legal for hunting, but you probably don't want to haul one very far. It's generally quite a bit heavier than it's little brother.
 
No matter how many rifles or pistols one has, there is always reason for "just one more."
So Build and AR 10 class. Then "honey, I need a lighter hunting rifle."
 
fishgutzy said:
No matter how many rifles or pistols one has, there is always reason for "just one more."
So Build and AR 10 class. Then "honey, I need a lighter hunting rifle."
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A DPMS Oracle is a good starting point. You can pick them up used pretty inexpensively, and modify it suit your needs. They generally run well right off the shelf, and even if you get a lemon you can straighten it out.

Check out the website I linked earlier, you can get a lot of solid advice from folks who own every large AR variant you can imagine.
 
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Ikarus1 said:
https://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/308-ar-18-oem-rifle-prod83359.aspx

Use one of the various Brownell's coupons floating around. Code M8Y will get you $20 off and free shipping to the FFL of your choice.

add some furniture and a stock and you're done. When it comes to .308ARs, stick to one brand's upper and lower reciever.
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I've heard you had to stay with PSA for upper if you got their lower. Is that true for every manufacturer? Are AR10s not a 'Mil-spec' uniformity??

DS

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 
DirtySCREW said:
I've heard you had to stay with PSA for upper if you got their lower. Is that true for every manufacturer? Are AR10s not a 'Mil-spec' uniformity??

DS

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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Its not even true for PSA gen 2s. I've seen gen 2 PSA uppers on Aero lowers because they both use DPMS patterns.

There is no milspec for a .308 AR

However since you mention PSA, I love mine. Changed the buffer to a rifle system, the factory one was too light for a .308
0533c9ed1911c7565c8d4ccfae31c9ad.jpg
 
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There are several patterns out there for AR10's. I think Armalite has 2 different patterns, depending on the year.

I used all PSA stuff to build mine, and PSA shares the DPMS pattern. 18" barrel with a mid-length gas system, and an H3 carbine buffer. So far its run every type of 308 I've fed it, including handloads. Off a bipod I have no trouble shooting 1.5" groups at 100 yards. I suspect with some careful load development, and shooting it off a rest, It could do better.
 
With the big platform stuff you have DPMS Gen I and Gen II patterns these are the LR-308s and then the AR-10 pattern which is Armalight.

DPMS Gen I stuff is where most of the parts are at. I am in the middle of a 358win build and have to pay attention to everything from upper, bcg to barrel, barrel nut and hand guards.

Word of advice, buy your lower and upper matched already. I went with 5D tactical for my upper and lower so I would have any issues

Honestly if I had the money I would have bought palmettos pa10 and have it rebarrrled To 358win. But I am setup for 80% lowers so why not.

You will need a different armors tool for the barrel nut from what I have read
 
DirtySCREW said:
I've heard you had to stay with PSA for upper if you got their lower. Is that true for every manufacturer? Are AR10s not a 'Mil-spec' uniformity??

DS

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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I have the PTAC10 lower and Aero Precision upper. I contacted Aero and asked them if they were aware of any compatibility issues between their upper and the PTAC lower. They said they did not know of any issues. Haven’t built it yet. Will report back when I do.

Terry
 
DirtySCREW said:
I've heard you had to stay with PSA for upper if you got their lower. Is that true for every manufacturer? Are AR10s not a 'Mil-spec' uniformity??

DS

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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PSA's Gen I wasn't compatible with anything else. Apparently they got a bit wiser with the Gen II, although it too has some issues.

There isn't a Mil-spec for large ARs, and for that reason it's advisable to buy a matched upper and lower at the outset.

Primarily there are two common patterns that vendors market compatible parts for, DPMS and Armalite.

The actual AR-10 is Armalite, although you'll hear lots of folks with large ARs mistakenly calling their rifle an AR-10. This becomes an issue in 2 different ways;

1. You don't have an AR-10 (perhaps DPMS pattern, or a proprietary design) and you go buy AR-10 parts because everyone calls everything an AR-10. You try putting it together and it doesn't work.

2. You do have an AR-10, but because everyone calls everything an AR-10 (including DPMS stuff) you bought parts that your vendor possibly neither knows nor cares which pattern they fit. You buy it, put it in, and it doesn't work and vendor doesn't know why.

That said, you can save yourself a lot of hassle by knowing what pattern your upper and lower conform to, and by buying parts explicitly stated to fit your specific pattern or specifically stated to fit both.
 
Only issue my Gen2 PA10 had was that it was overgassed to the point of overpowering the 3.0oz of carbine buffer and spring they supplied with it. And my freefloating barrel wasn't quite freefloating since the gas tube was touching the barrel nut slightly. Otherwise, it functioned fine and the fit between upper and lower couldn't have been better.
In other words, a hell of a deal for less than $700. I think I have around $1200 in it with optic, mount, Rise 3.5lb trigger, and Luth-AR stock setup.
 
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Ikarus1 said:
Only issue my Gen2 PA10 had was that it was overgassed to the point of overpowering the 3.0oz of carbine buffer and spring they supplied with it. And my freefloating barrel wasn't quite freefloating since the gas tube was touching the barrel nut slightly.
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Ikarus1 said:
In other words, a hell of a deal for less than $700.
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It's a way to get into the platform at an unbeatable price point, no doubt about that. I don't have anything against PSA nor the PA10, but with it's rise in the market for this platform, plenty of issues have come to light. Not everyone has said issues, and that's a good thing. It's also an opportunity for PSA to continue upping it's game and diminishing their customer service costs.
 
Matt.Cross said:
It's a way to get into the platform at an unbeatable price point, no doubt about that. I don't have anything against PSA nor the PA10, but with it's rise in the market for this platform, plenty of issues have come to light. Not everyone has said issues, and that's a good thing. It's also an opportunity for PSA to continue upping it's game and diminishing their customer service costs.
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yeah if I was an AR newb then I wouldn't have liked the rifle as it came from the factory. That's why I recommend the AERO oem rifles for most people. Most people can mount a pistol grip or handguard, but might be afraid to take some emory cloth to an aluminum barrel nut, or mount an adj. gas block. I will say this: that carbine buffer they gave me was pretty decent, so I knocked out the pin and made it an H2 weight for another rifle.
 
Do they make AR10 bull barrels? My friend's dad wants a bull barrel.
Also learn at forums.308AR.com (thanks Matt.Cross) that AR10 is trademarked to Armalite. I've gotten some insight from the little reading I did. Also didn't know that the magazines aren't interchangeable....which is stupid.
Get a freaking standard! Geez.

Oh...and they are pricey. Cheapest I've seen is $499 for a rifle kit from PSA and $79 for the PA10 lower. So $580 plus FFL fees... and that's on sale because of memorial day sale!!!!

DS
 
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DirtySCREW said:
Oh...and they are pricey. Cheapest I've seen is $499 for a rifle kit from PSA and $79 for the PA10 lower. So $580 plus FFL fees... and that's on sale because of memorial day sale!!!!
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That's incredibly inexpensive for the platform. Maybe not for the budget, but definitely cheap for the platform.
 
Matt.Cross said:
That's incredibly inexpensive for the platform. Maybe not for the budget, but definitely cheap for the platform.
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Yep, consider that a non freefloat non-stainless DMPS was around $800.my base upper and lower cost $580 shipped last summer. Complete upper and lower.
 
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DirtySCREW said:
Do they make AR10 bull barrels? My friend's dad wants a bull barrel.
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Yes

While not a Bull Barrel , weeks ~ month or so ago , I wanted the Faxon barrel, at the bottom. At the time I couldn't order from any place because everything was "Out Of Stock."

I did find the following barrel which is a "Bull" and am happy with it.
Hardened Arm's 24" 308 Bull Melonited Barrel,
Tactical Match Chambered in 308 Win (will also fire 7.62x51mm NATO)
<-Haven't got any of my NATO to chamber yet, No Biggie.
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DPMS Pattern 308 Bull getting it on paper right out of the box, or rather newly assembled ( with discount parts ).
I've only run 10 to 12 rds through it and find it to be slightly favoring an under gas condition.

Mother , 5.6.18_b.jpg

I am running a Toolcraft BCG and this combo Headspaces tight which means it does not like to chamber 62x51 NATO. The manufacture states this in their product description so it really wasn't a surprise.


I believe BCA also offers 308 Bull Barrels.
Others also offer 308 in Bull but the vast majority state they want or need 3 to 6 months to fill your order.
Years back I had a 24" Bull made for my Savage and that is chambered for Palma 308 and that was 2 weeks or so, not 3 to 6 months.

Faxon
Match Series- 20" Heavy Fluted, .308 WIN, 416-R, 5R, Nitride, Nickel Teflon Extension
 
I caught the PA-10 complete Gen 2 lower and the Gen 2 18” stainless barreled uppers on sale a couple of weeks apart and paid just a tad over $600 after the transfer on the lower.

I put in a Geissele flat 2 stage trigger, Odin Works adjustable gas block, Fotis Red 7.62 brake, and a few other odds and ends and I have been extremely happy with the rifle, this is my first .308 AR and I have had a great deal of fun learning the finer points of the platform.

I honestly believe the PA-10 Gen 2 is the perfect place to start if you’re looking to get into larger bore gas guns, once I shoot the barrel out I’ll look at possibly going with a better quality barrel but as of right now I’m getting 1 1/2 -2” groups with mil spec ammo and a tad smaller with Federal Gold Medal match ammo.

I’m far from and expert but I’ll be happy to answer any questions you have about the PSA gun.
 
Tarowah said:
I caught the PA-10 complete Gen 2 lower and the Gen 2 18” stainless barreled uppers on sale a couple of weeks apart and paid just a tad over $600 after the transfer on the lower.

I put in a Geissele flat 2 stage trigger, Odin Works adjustable gas block, Fotis Red 7.62 brake, and a few other odds and ends and I have been extremely happy with the rifle, this is my first .308 AR and I have had a great deal of fun learning the finer points of the platform.

I honestly believe the PA-10 Gen 2 is the perfect place to start if you’re looking to get into larger bore gas guns, once I shoot the barrel out I’ll look at possibly going with a better quality barrel but as of right now I’m getting 1 1/2 -2” groups with mil spec ammo and a tad smaller with Federal Gold Medal match ammo.

I’m far from and expert but I’ll be happy to answer any questions you have about the PSA gun.
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Pics man..pics!!!!

Lol

DS

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 
Here ya go, just some quick iPhone pics. If I need to change the layout let me know, I'm on a 28" monitor so they looked fine like this, I can put them single file if it helps.

41674574454_928992655b_b.jpg
41674574384_0d95f10f3e_b.jpg

42398238271_7aeb13953d_b.jpg
img
 
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I had contacted PSA a couple months ago when they were running a sale on upper/barrel assemblies, wanting to step up to a 20" barrel to make a DPMS LR308 more of an "LR" rifle. To their credit, PSA warned me off of the idea. They acted like it was a cosmetic issue at first, but when pressed, were very non-encouraging over the entire compatibility equation. Undaunted, I went to AeroPrecision and ended up getting one of their 20" upper/barrel assemblies.

Cosmetically, if you look close at all, you can see where (as @Matt.Cross says) there's no Mil-spec standard that everybody marries up to.

The takedown pins were extremely tight, but they're becoming more user-friendly with exercise and attitude-adjustment. I got the headspace checked first thing, per Aero's advice, then got the keymod adapter for a harris bipod and ran Tiborosaurus Rex's barrel break-in procedure. While I was zeroing it, I slapped a p-mag in like I normally would, pulled the charging handle and let go, and...nothing. Took me a minute to figure out that the p-mag didn't seat as it should, but past where it should and was blocking the bolt from moving forward. Note to self: take it easy there mag-slappy.

Finally got to stretch it out a couple days ago, at the undisclosed location (thanks again, XXXXX, you know who you are). Was ringing steel at 200, 300, 400, and 450yds pretty reliably. Had a few hits (but many more misses) at 910. Blaming operator error for 1/3 of those misses, factory ammo for a third (Federal SMK 168), and a variable crosswind for the rest. Worth noting here that the most valuable learning tool may have been the spotter and his spotting scope.

Partial moral of the story? Buyer beware. I think I lucked out in getting something that works well enough, but has some cosmetic deficiencies.

Need to get an oversized charging handle and some 175g, and will be looking forward to Hawksridge Cold Bore challenge #2.
 
OverMountainMan said:
I had contacted PSA a couple months ago when they were running a sale on upper/barrel assemblies, wanting to step up to a 20" barrel to make a DPMS LR308 more of an "LR" rifle. To their credit, PSA warned me off of the idea. They acted like it was a cosmetic issue at first, but when pressed, were very non-encouraging over the entire compatibility equation.
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LoL, I think you scared the Devil out of them.


OverMountainMan said:
I got the headspace checked first thing, per Aero's advice
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OMM, not directed at you, for others this is "Fundamental", Period!
So everyone knows this , why do I comment on this? Many don't have the proper gauge~s to check HS for 308 or even other platforms they run.
Having stated that, a 308 round ( with firing pin removed ) is NOT A Headspace Gauge! Yes, I've witnessed it.
Another situation is , HS must be OK because she shoots fine.
Really??????
I am fortunate to have the proper gauges. If one doesn't have the proper gauge, find a set or someone ~ place that does.

IMHO, the BCG & Barrel, Barrel Extension better be "Soul Mates" in that it locks up and Headspaces properly. I've had TWO 308 BCG issues, one being TOO Much Headspace in which the Bolt Locking Lugs were .311" and suppose to be .318" ~ .319" . The other BCG issue had to do with the Gas Ring Bore in the Carrier. The dealer made both good, No Problem.


OverMountainMan said:
Buyer beware. I think I lucked out in getting something that works well enough, but has some cosmetic deficiencies.
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+1

Again, not directed to you, OMM,,,,

Yes buyer beware and if you're going to piece meal a 308 rig together to owe it to yourself to understand it better than the ave interested shooter.

I fully agree with Cross in that a "Turn Key " DPMS or other budget LR-308 will get you in the game and you can go from there.

I also understand that many wanting to get into LR-308 fun at a budget level start "Experiencing a High Level of Anxiety" because from what they read and talk to others, they believe they need to immediately buy a "Drop in Trigger" to obtain good results, etc.
Not SO!
For me, faced with a choice to Eat for a Week or buy a drop in trigger, I am eating for a week.

IMHO to start with, one needs a good ~ decent barrel with a BCG that properly MATE and this means if you want to run it all , Nato & Commercial ammo, your overall performance my suffer because of a looser HS. No Free Lunch.

Safe Shooting
 
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