Army announces intention to replace M249....

Discussion in 'Firearms News and Views' started by SPM, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. SPM

    SPM Patriot Rabblerouser

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    So the SAW is on the outside, as the Army announces its wants a replacement that " will combine the firepower and range of a machine gun with the precision and ergonomics of a rifle, yielding capability improvements in accuracy, range, and lethality. The weapon will be lightweight and fire lightweight ammunition, improving soldier mobility, survivability, and firing accuracy."

    Additionally, the Next Generation Squad Automatic Weapon will:

    "....weigh no more than twelve pounds, be no longer than thirty-five inches long, and be able to fire 600 rounds per minute for fifteen minutes without needing a barrel change."

    The Army also wants to eliminate weight by dumping brass cartridges, apparently.....maybe even going with caseless ammo.

    Does anyone else smell a several billion dollar boondoggle being extracted from your paycheck?


    https://popularmilitary.com/army-saying-goodbye-m249-squad-automatic-rifle-thirty-years/
     
  2. 325rto

    325rto Active Member

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    Hahaha. Constantly reinventing the wheel.
     
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  3. Bailey Boat

    Bailey Boat Senior Member Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    The niece needs tuition and a new BMW...... And Brother and SIL could use a new house and that old ass RV has seen better days (even though it's never been used) And besides their neighborhood is going to the dogs since the new neighbors across the street only have Jaguars and Mercedes. There is a limit ya know....
     
  4. S4f

    S4f I survived v- bulletin Charter Member Supporting Member

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    The caseless ammo idea as been around for 30 years or more, but never perfected to the point of being commercially viable, I guess the military wants to take a shot at wasting millions of dollars on R&D to come up with nada.
     
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  5. 325rto

    325rto Active Member

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    Well. As long as they're friends make a bunch of money, I guess that will be okay.
     
  6. Chuckman

    Chuckman Senior Member Sponsor

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  7. Long_Hunter

    Long_Hunter Embrace the Suck Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    As long as it briefs well...doesn’t matter that it isn’t needed...must feed the military-industrial beast.
     
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  8. Jayne

    Jayne Member Charter Member

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    Sounds like one of those fully semiauto assault rifles the MSM is always spouting off about. I think they can get them at Cabellas.
     
  9. RedneckFur

    RedneckFur Smith & Wesson is a religion of peace. Supporting Member

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    Its all about big wigs lining their pockets with our money. A few billion dollars thrown down a well, chasing a dream. In a few years we'll get a memo about how the 249 was fine all along.
     
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  10. 12151791

    12151791 [This Space is Available for Rent] Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Will us peasants be able to buy the M249 SAW since they will no longer be a weapon of war?
     
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  11. Tim

    Tim I am....an Enchanter. Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    How about this for an alternative....stop invading countries.
     
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  12. Tim

    Tim I am....an Enchanter. Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    FIFY...no need to go to the store according to MSM. Just order it online.
     
  13. Beef15

    Beef15 B or somesuch Charter Member

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    600rpm sustained for 15 minutes no barrel change seem like a tall order?
     
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  14. frakncylons

    frakncylons Member Supporting Member

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    Yea, I was thinking the same.
     
  15. Stick

    Stick Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Diablos

    Diablos Senior Member

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    Who's waiting for CMP sales
     
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  17. NCLivingBrit

    NCLivingBrit Clueless Protoplasm Supporting Member

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    Time for HK to dig those old G11s out of the dumpster and give it one more try....
     
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  18. Pink_Vapor

    Pink_Vapor Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Nope, it'll be plenty accurate up to the 9,000th round with the new unobtainium steel barrel.
     
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  19. Combat Diver

    Combat Diver Well-Known Member

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    Army been working on a polymer cased cartridge for years to reduce the ammo weight. Army has stated they will NOT go with the USMC M27 IAR. As a lightweight automatic rifle there are always trade offs. Too light and guns overheat, hard to control on full auto and don't last, think of the late 50s M14E2/M15 SAW (BAR replacement). Too heavy, while they last are hard to maneuver with (think BAR or M1919) and must have a quick change barrel for prolong firing. I don't think the weight is an issue the M249 but bulk is and I've humped them along with the MG3, M60 and M240 to name a few. There is the Mk46 SOF version that does away with the side loading M16 magazine (PMags work great here) and then there is the same gun but receiver tad longer chambering in 7.62x51 as the Mk48. Bolts on the Mk48 don't last that long and I just coded out one receiver and. That gun is lighter then the M240L which uses a titanium receiver hence the SF guys prefer them.

    And remember the M240 replaced the M60 stamped gun in service because it didn't last, it beat itself apart over time. The M240 competed against the M60 back in the late 50s in the US Army trials but was known then as the Belgium MAG58. Which is nothing but an inverted BAR action with the FN Type D BAR quick change barrel and a MG42 feed system.

    Colt developed a belt feed M16 with a quick change barrel decades ago to go against the M249 but heavier weight and rate of fire was chosen. Wheel repeats itself.

    CD
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  20. Ikarus1

    Ikarus1 Avtomat Krishna-kov

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    maybe they should just switch to laser and plasma weapons. Seems more economical than reinventing the wheel yet again.
     
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  21. rufrdr

    rufrdr Active Member

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    I've been out of the Ordnance loop too long to be able to comment on the polymer case concept except that brass cases
     
  22. rufrdr

    rufrdr Active Member

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    Some here sound like those who bemoaned the adoption of the cartridge arm over the tried and true muzzle loader! :) Tech advances require the application of large amounts of money and time with several developmental dead-ends along the way. Telescoping polymer cases and self-ranging sighting systems will be the two next tech leaps for firearms.
     
  23. RedneckFur

    RedneckFur Smith & Wesson is a religion of peace. Supporting Member

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    You, Sir... You may be onto something...
     
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  24. BudE

    BudE Hillsborough, NC

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    I thought so myself. I wonder what that barrel will be made of and if electrical impulses will come out of the muzzle rather than bullets.
     
  25. SPM

    SPM Patriot Rabblerouser

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    No, a better product came along, from the private market, and proved itself in Battle to be the better. Look at how many cartridge arms showed up on the muzzleloader battlefields, the varieties of action, caliber, ect. The market did that, and fed 2 governments specifically trying to get an edge in a very real contest. It was that variety and innovation that changed the course of small arms, displaying what worked, what didn't, and what was best in Battle.

    This isn't the same. This is a government body (the army) putting out a concept to companies that are parasites and leeches on the government teat (defense contractors) who have no incentive to deliver on time, under budget, or over-achieving.

    Technology isn't advancing and making weapons obsolete so much as defense budgets are expanding and more money we don't have will be borrowed on the backs of kids without jobs whose education won't help them get a job to buy the fattest peice of pork we can get with the Peoples' money.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  26. rufrdr

    rufrdr Active Member

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    Where do you think the M1 carbine came from? The government issued a requirement and private industry delivered. Same for the WW2 Jeep and many others.
     
  27. NCLivingBrit

    NCLivingBrit Clueless Protoplasm Supporting Member

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    During a time of war (rather than endless police actions everywhere) sure. It's a bit more of an endless gravy train deal nowadays.