Atlanta Cop Shooting

Are you going to start chanting "hands up, don't shoot".

Point weapon a cop, it may not end well for you. Brooks was willing to fight two armed officers to keep from going to jail. Drunk driving, resisting arrest, deadly assault on an officer 2x, all sorts of probation violations, you get the idea. He's dead today because he made himself a threat, because he didn't want to go back to jail. If he was willing to take on two officers, he was the very definition of threat to the public.

no. I’m fairly balanced and measured on these matters and don’t prescribe to any group thought. The poster did not add any other qualifiers to being shot other than resisting arrest.

I’m gonna start chanting “I can’t breath” while I pistol whip pregnant ladies. I like to go down with great honors and national funerals, ya dig?
 
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Here’s a weird question ... what kinda of pseudo masochist will take the job as new Chief of the APD? I know there will be plenty of applicants but seriously the way things have become so volatile in race, politics, MSM media bias, police actions under a microscope, etc I just can’t see anyone being able to actually being able to survive more than a year or two without becoming a fall down drunk alcoholic.

Someone who wants to be the sharp end of the spear as a change maker will take the job. Change of one kind or another has to come. There are people who thrive on change making. It is the thing they do best.
 
Someone who wants to be the sharp end of the spear as a change maker will take the job. Change of one kind or another has to come. There are people who thrive on change making. It is the thing they do best.
I find that most of those changes are arbitrary and not very well thought out.

Law Enforcement as a whole didn't just spring up overnight it was hundreds of years of trial and error and has steadily, and maybe a little slowly, gotten better. Hard to believe a new guy can come in and fix things overnight.

What I think of someone who takes on this job is that it's someone who is only a few years from retirement and hopes they can cross the finish line before something else blows up.
 
Every time another race based shooting incident happens I think of the two cops on the tv series Sanford and Son and how the new world of diversity may prove them to be substantial LEO’s for our country’s future.
 
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That's a pretty strong word considering a lot your peers right here think the judgement was sound. I've been in similar situations and don't think I would have handled it that way but I'm not the arbiter of what their standard should be.

The DA his self said that a Taser was a deadly weapon... or not, depending on which officers he was charging.
Strong words? If you say so, but I am going to stand by what I said. For me the question is not whether the shooting was legally justifiable. My point was that IMO it was a stupid thing to have done. I'm sure he defaulted to his training when the guy freaked out, grabbed the taser and ran for it. I know I am in a position of second guessing what the cops did under stress so I am trying to be careful here, but the sad fact is that in this day and age policing is no longer just enforcing the law, it is shot through (no pun intended) with the toxic politics of our age. What happened that day has a real good chance of getting more good cops murdered for simply wearing a blue uniform. I would hope a more experienced LEO in the same situation would understand that.

Now, regarding the DA, tasers are designed and sold as a non lethal weapon. With what I have read I don't think I would give two shits for his opinion on whether a taser is a deadly weapon or on much of anything else apart from which way the political winds are blowing that day.
 
I didn't write this but I find it quite well thought out with factual basis.

Atlanta Police Department (APD) SHOOTING EXPLAINED

Before reading below, remember that officers are afforded the same constitutional rights a citizens, so whether they’re charged for political reasons or not, the facts of the case remain the same until their day in court:
In order to understand this situation, you’ve got to set feelings and emotions aside to understand objective reasonableness.
So looking at this case, what do we know?
A DUI investigation determined that he was too intoxicated to drive. The bodycam showed the officers being overly nice and polite to him the entire time all the way up until the handcuffs were about to go on, as they should’ve been.
As soon as they tried to cuff him, an all out brawl took place. Not just resisting, but punching them in the face and throwing them around.
He took one officer’s taser, threw him face first into the asphalt, stood up, and took off.
_____________
So let’s pause there and see where we’re at legally.
Charges:
DUI
Obstruction X2 - Felony
Battery on an officer X2
Aggravated assault X2 - Felony
Strong Armed Robbery - Felony
And believe it or not....
Possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime - Felony
Per Georgia Law, a taser is classified as a “less-lethal” FIREARM as they do occasionally cause death.
(OCGA 16-11-106)
________________
These offenses are important because there is a case law called Tennessee v Garner
What Tennessee v Garner states is:
“When a non-violent felon is ordered to stop and submit to police, ignoring that order does not give rise to a reasonable good-faith belief that the use of deadly force is necessary, UNLESS it has been threatened.”
So this goes back to the taser being classified as a firearm that can cause death or great bodily harm.
___________
So,
They fought
He stole the taser
He got up and ran
The 2nd officer chased after him and tried to use his own taser against him, but he didn’t get a good connection.
Brooks then turns, aims the taser at the officer, and fires. Statutorily, this is no different than firing a gun.
(The taser that APD carries has 2 cartridges, so Brooks could have potentially shot the officer twice.)
The officer dropped his taser from his left hand after it appears he was hit by a barb on the video, draws his sidearm, fires 3 shots, falls against a car in the parking lot and Brooks goes down.
Brooks was not only a continuing threat to the officer since he could still fire the taser again, but he also showed and EXTREME desire to get away, with a weapon. So it is not unreasonable to have the fear that he would use that weapon to carjack a motorist sitting in the drive-thru line, take a hostage, or otherwise hurt another innocent party.
What does Georgia Law say about deadly force?
OCGA 17-4-20 (b):
“1. Sheriffs and peace officers may use deadly force:
1.) to apprehend a suspected felon only when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon. (He did)
2.) to apprehend a suspected felon who possesses any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury. (He did)
3.) to apprehend a suspected felon when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of physical violence to the officer or others (He did)
4.) to apprehend a suspected felon when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm (He did)
The officer only needed one of those requirements, but he had all 4........
Now the reason taser’s are considered “less-lethal” is because when used appropriately, you are “less likely” to kill someone vs using a gun. But Brooks hasn’t been through the training to know how to avoid certain vulnerable parts of the body, and he doesn’t understand how neuromuscular incapacitation (NMI) works, which makes it MORE likely for him to cause great bodily injury or death than if an officer used it.
And just to support the fact that tasers can and do kill, there is an East Point Officer currently sitting in prison for improperly using a taser and killing a man a few years ago.
(Eberhart v Georgia)
“He could’ve shot him in the leg!”
Right off the top, it is unconstitutional to do so. It is considered cruel and unusual punishment to employ a gun in that manner. Either an officer felt deadly force was necessary, or he should use a lesser response.
We could just leave it at that, but that's too much of a cop out, so let's discuss WHY it has been deemed unconstitutional. For one thing, that's an extremely difficult shot to make. The target is quite narrow, and in continuous motion as the suspect runs away/charges the officer. Under the best of conditions trying to hit the leg is challenging...to be generous about it. But in a life or death encounter, the officer's fine motor skills will be eroded by the stress of the encounter making the shot, turning a leg shot into a very low probability feat.
Assuming a round does hit the leg, then what? The only way a shot to the leg would immediately stop a threat is by shattering one of the bones, and stopping the threat is the ultimate goal. While it is very difficult to find a shot to the leg that will immediately stop a threat, it is actually comparatively easy to find shots to the leg which eventually prove fatal. Human legs have very large blood vessels which are essentially unprotected (femoral artery)
Now remember, we’ve had days to sit back, watch videos, discuss, and analyze this entire thing. The officers had less than a minute from the time the fight started, and less than 5 seconds to interpret EVERYTHING you just read while running, getting shot at with a taser, and returning fire.
Copy and pasted
 
The officer only needed one of those requirements, but he had all 4........
I struggle with arguments that use govt. rules, that no-one ever voted for, as justification of their position.
It doesn't even matter if I agree with them. I just find it suspicious to insist that the govt. rule-makers are absolutely correct and the argument is over. This always raises a red flag with me.
If you can make your point with the argument of common sense/decency/humanity, then you won't need any govt. mandates in an attempt to dominate the debate and enhance your position.
(absolutely not a jab @McDirkale just responding my thoughts on the article)
 
I struggle with arguments that use govt. rules, that no-one ever voted for, as justification of their position.
It doesn't even matter if I agree with them. I just find it suspicious to insist that the govt. rule-makers are absolutely correct and the argument is over. This always raises a red flag with me.
If you can make your point with the argument of common sense/decency/humanity, then you won't need any govt. mandates in an attempt to dominate the debate and enhance your position.
(absolutely not a jab @McDirkale just responding my thoughts on the article)

To be fair, those "mandates" set a legal precedent which is designed specifically to detail the restrictions of the law. In the legal field they are refered to as "elements" and are a legal breakdown of requirements that must be met for certain things. It is designed specifically to remove things like "common sense", decency, and humanity from the law because they are vacuous and dependent on the individual. What is "decent" for me is not "decent" for someone else, by design. What is "humane" for me is not "humane" for someone else.

We can disagree with the elements, but they are actually pretty vital and can (and often are) your friend. Just consider "Going armed to the terror of the public". To a Karen, even owning a firearm is GATTOP. Without specific elements that make up the "crime" a Karen judge in Durham could toss people in jail be cause of how she feels about a certain issue as opposed to having to actually prove her case.
 
To be fair, those "mandates" set a legal precedent which is designed specifically to detail the restrictions of the law. In the legal field they are refered to as "elements" and are a legal breakdown of requirements that must be met for certain things. It is designed specifically to remove things like "common sense", decency, and humanity from the law because they are vacuous and dependent on the individual. What is "decent" for me is not "decent" for someone else, by design. What is "humane" for me is not "humane" for someone else.

We can disagree with the elements, but they are actually pretty vital and can (and often are) your friend. Just consider "Going armed to the terror of the public". To a Karen, even owning a firearm is GATTOP. Without specific elements that make up the "crime" a Karen judge in Durham could toss people in jail be cause of how she feels about a certain issue as opposed to having to actually prove her case.

GATTOP ?
 
Now, regarding the DA, tasers are designed and sold as a non lethal weapon. With what I have read I don't think I would give two shits for his opinion on whether a taser is a deadly weapon or on much of anything else apart from which way the political winds are blowing that day.

And here's another point with which the defense attorney will raise a flag: not only does the state of Georgia say a taser is a deadly weapon, the DA has said as much, at another point. So the DA has contradicted himself.

My rapid-armchair-I-don't-have-all-the-facts analysis: To become DA, you have to be a) politically savvy, and b) legally knowledgeable. So to make so many egregious errors leads me to think the likely reasons are a) he's under political pressure, and/or b) (MUCH less likely) by overcharging he's stacking the deck against a conviction knowing an acquittal is likely. He's not known to be a pro-LE DA.

Another point about the DA: he's pretty much a piece of crap, has been under investigation by the GBI. I think he is a politically zealous animal currying as many political points as he can, and willing to throw anyone under the bus to achieve his goals.
 
The only flaw that was obvious to me here was the second shot capacity of the taser. The officers have two cartridges for the taser, one in the weapon and another on their person. Tasers aren't two shot derringers.
 
The only flaw that was obvious to me here was the second shot capacity of the taser. The officers have two cartridges for the taser, one in the weapon and another on their person. Tasers aren't two shot derringers.

Not necessarily true. New models carry two cartridges in the unit and can be fired twice without a reload.

https://www.axon.com/products/taser-x2
 
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I struggle with arguments that use govt. rules, that no-one ever voted for, as justification of their position.
It doesn't even matter if I agree with them. I just find it suspicious to insist that the govt. rule-makers are absolutely correct and the argument is over. This always raises a red flag with me.
If you can make your point with the argument of common sense/decency/humanity, then you won't need any govt. mandates in an attempt to dominate the debate and enhance your position.
(absolutely not a jab @McDirkale just responding my thoughts on the article)
Well, because this is a court case, and the stuff govt. rulemakers made(laws) determine what happens in a court case.
As an aside, this is a representative democracy. We elect leaders, who vote on those rules. These were in fact voted on, but not by a direct democracy. I would shudder to think how corrupt things would be under the tyranny of direct democracy.
 
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I’m gonna start chanting “I can’t breath” while I pistol whip pregnant ladies. I like to go down with great honors and national funerals, ya dig?
anyone noted the paradox with that statement.... now a 'calling card'

I do not believe it is physiologically possible to say this without actually being able to breathe....
How do the vocal cords 'work'... by passing air through them...
where does this air come from... the lungs (certainly not an air hose stuffed up their bum)

I'd say this is now a learned statement in an attempt to stop any type of progress with detention of someone.....
 
Time to revisit ...

Georgia Bureau of Investigation has their investigation of the shooting but not yet released it to the public ...
https://www.foxnews.com/us/rayshard-brooks-shooting-investigation-gbi
... the Fulton Co DA filed murder charges almost immediately ... not eve waiting for the GBI to hardly get started ... so it could get real interesting depending on what the investigation’s report says.
 
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