Balance of Cost-Reliability-Quality?

Ikarus1 said:
Post a link to your $600 6920 and sub $200 Colt lower pulse man

I posted what you can buy them for today not some arbitrary conjuring up of some past deal
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And again, that's my problem as you are arguing semantics. The OP stated "today" and if he literally meant "today" then the thread should be closed because today for the OP was yesterday. The market ebbs and flows just like any market and what is in stock today may or may not be in stock tomorrow. I am speaking about the recent past and what is generally considered the current state, aka the near future as well, of the market. There is no arbitrary conjuring, just data of the past.

I'd be willing to bet a pretty decent amount that there will be sub $700 OEM 1s or 2s available in the next 6 months, especially considering many retailers have the OEM 2s in stock right now for $75x

https://www.g4gguns.com/products/rifles-colt-le6920-oem2-098289020253-322
https://www.gunprodeals.com/products/tactical-colt-mfg-le6920-098289020253
https://www.adamsgunshop.com/products/tactical-colt-mfg-le6920-098289020253
 
Another choice might be a CORE15. I've had the opportunity to fire/inspect one of these and I was surprised at how well it's built...especially how tight the upper and lower fit. No slop.
This was several years ago and the owner paid around $750 for it.
 
I would buy another Barnes Precision Machine again, without batting a eye, complete or parts.
If I were to buy another AR to use as a beat around, I'd probably pick up a M&P. If I wanted a cheap build, I'd go PSA, if I wanted a higher end build I'd use Aero Precision or BCM
 
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nchunt101 said:
In all honesty I would probally find an upper I wanted on sale then buy what ever complete EPT lower PSA is running a sale on. IMHO a lower is a lower and I not pay for a rollmark.
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To be fair, this lower is pretty cool http://www.primaryarms.com/noveske-rifleworks-gen-iii-n4-stripped-ar-lower-04000008k

But A. Noveske was pretty much known for their barrels. If I had to have a cute little cross, put it on the barrel where it matters and B. $250 buys alot of stripped milspec lowers, granted without the tension screws.
 
nchunt101 said:
In all honesty I would probally find an upper I wanted on sale then buy what ever complete EPT lower PSA is running a sale on. IMHO a lower is a lower and I not pay for a rollmark.
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This is true. Most lowers are made by the same handful of companies and there's no difference. You can pay more for billet, but there's no increase in function or longevity.

Edited to add, for a complete matter, it matters a bit more. QA/QC.
 
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IDK, with billet you can get some very nice upgrades. Such as: flared magwell. Threaded pin holes. Trigger guards. Higher quality and nicer tolerances and tighter fit, etc.
So I would argue there IS an increase in function, and you can get better performance. Among other things like pride of ownership and whatnot.
Noveske costs more than Anderson because it is better in every way. Now, many people may not care, they may just need a basic rifle.

Nothing wrong with a Glock, but it is not an SV Infinity. They both punch holes really well, but they are not the same. Everyone has seen what Bob Vogel and Taran Butler can do with a Glock, but that has not put a dent in the 1 1/2 year waiting list for a 5500$ Infinty!
 
There's one immutable truth in this area, and that is "Do your research before you spend your money"
 
I've had a Delton upper complete 20" heavy barrel chrome lined 1/9 since 2007 with zero issues. I put it on a Stag lower that came complete. The whole thing shoots like a top, probably have close to 5k rounds through it. More recently I put a complete Colt carbine LW barrel upper on an Anderson stripped lower with Stag internals, it runs perfectly.

Just an FYI, Stag gives (or did when I ordered from them) a military (active/retired) and first responder discount. You have to call your order in, doesn't work on the website.
 
Ikarus1 said:
Del-ton probably has 1/100th of the volume of PSA. Both good Carolinas-based value brands. I heard the stories about PSA before I started using them circa 2012, then I started buying their uppers, dismantling them, turning them into what I wanted or needed. They test fire the uppers, at least every one I have ever purchased complete, and that's probably about the extent of the QC goes on a completed upper. They've quit borrowing so much from FN and started building most of their stuff in house so I am sure there's some growing pains associated with that. I guess the asterisk will always be there when someone mentions them, versus a company just changing their name and selling a million barrels ala Moore Machine.
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Just ran across this thread. Interesting reading...!


This statement is false: Del-ton probably has 1/100th of the volume of PSA

Delton sells far more rifles and parts than PSA. In 2016 Delton sold 34,293 rifles compared to 11,496 rifles sold by PSA. Literally 3 times more than PSA. Delton has a established QC protocol and a dedicated QC department. Delton makes their own bolts and carriers in house. Delton sells globally to L/E and military entities.

PSA has no established QC protocol or dedicated QC department and appears to hire the cheapest help they can get for assembly. It shows..


Stats from " Shooting Industry 2016 Long-Gun Production by U.S. Manufacturers "
 
The FN M4’s and Colt M4(6920’s) we’re both built to (or as close as possible to) the TDP that the military demands. I love FN, they make some of the best chrome-lined barrels in the world, but they cost more, like BCM. Colt, well let’s say I am not a fan of the finish (QC as far as cosmetics) specs they adhere to. That being said, I have a 6920 in condition 3 just incase, that I not only trust my life to, but my family’s also. It is the rifle I expect to go bang every time I need it to.

I have nothing at all against PSA, I personally had issues with one of their lowers being (out of spec). I also had a similar issue with a San Tan Tactical lower which cost 4x as much and was milled. I also sent a 6920 back to Colt over very bad tool chatter marks on the lower. I have had both Del-Ton and Double Star that ran like sewing machines. I had a S&W M&P 15 (not a Sport, but a 1-7 twist chrome-lined standard)that was tighter tolerance and one of the best built AR’s I have owned. Figure out exactly how much you can spend and buy the best you can in that budget. I still go with “buy once, cry once”, but that is a personal philosophy that I learned to be true with my choices.
 
Colt and FN have the TDP and can bid on military supply contracts.


In privately owned manufacturing companies serving L/E and military entities globally, The 3 big players are:

- Windham Weaponry @ 64,715 rifles
- Daniel Defense @ 49,159 rifles
- Del-Ton @ 34,293 rifles


You can not go wrong with any of these.... All great choices and value..
 
Sadly around 6 months ago Colt Troopers were $800 and I told everyone to buy 2. I know it's costly, but get EXACTLY what you want rather than get a lower end gun and build it up.

BCM and Colt are my general go to guns. A naked 6720 or 6920 would be my starting point and build it up with furniture from there. A blem BCM or Scionics lower and the upper of your choice.

Cheaper to buy a lower and add an upper than to buy a complete rifle as well. I'd go with the BCM or Colt and spend more up front. I prefer the BCM mid-length to a Colt carbine personally, but have both and love both.

PM if you have specific ?s.
 
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JRHorne said:
And again, that's my problem as you are arguing semantics. The OP stated "today" and if he literally meant "today" then the thread should be closed because today for the OP was yesterday. The market ebbs and flows just like any market and what is in stock today may or may not be in stock tomorrow. I am speaking about the recent past and what is generally considered the current state, aka the near future as well, of the market. There is no arbitrary conjuring, just data of the past.

I'd be willing to bet a pretty decent amount that there will be sub $700 OEM 1s or 2s available in the next 6 months, especially considering many retailers have the OEM 2s in stock right now for $75x

https://www.g4gguns.com/products/rifles-colt-le6920-oem2-098289020253-322
https://www.gunprodeals.com/products/tactical-colt-mfg-le6920-098289020253
https://www.adamsgunshop.com/products/tactical-colt-mfg-le6920-098289020253
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Wow look a there, exactly 6 months to the day and here's a $605 OEM2!

https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/colt-oem-6920-for-605-shipped.34522/
 
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