Been wondering about RDS vs 1-4 scopes...

RFMan

RFMan

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I have an older Primary Arms Aimpoint clone, and a Bushnell TRS-25. I really like the 25's weight. The Aimpoint clone is heavier. I've been wondering about the 1-4 scopes that are all over the place now. I looked through a couple at the store. Saw right away that I did NOT like the ones with 1.5x bottom end; true 1x does seem to make a big difference...

But what really floors me is how much some of these weigh. So, my question to the brain trust: when considering speed, weight, ease of sight/target acquisition, and vision improvement (eyes are getting older every day), is a 1-4 scope worth having? I might jump right to "probably", if I knew of one that didn't weigh a ton.
 
SOMEBODY had to kick the sub- forum off, after all!
 
Screw it, go all in. Grab a true 1-6 with illumintion or dot. You won't like the price, but it will have you covered. I haven't really put it through proper testing yet, but my Vortex Razor HD2 is pretty slick. I don't think it is quite as quick as a good dot, but messing with it at the range went pretty well. But it is a fairly heavy scope. If you are looking for light weight go elsewhere. Maybe a Leupold. Most of their stuff is pretty light.
 
I'm open to 1-6 also; consider "1-4" to generically include 1-6. Usually means a small (24mm) objective...I can spend the same weight in something with a bigger objective...and now we are looking at a conventional scope.

The Leupold I looked through had a 1.5x low end, which screws me up when trying to use it as a dot sight.

i really need to look through/shoot some of these to get a real idea.
 
End use is some combo of home defense, being able to see better to shoot at longer range with a normally shorter range use rifle, and just trying the option out.
 
Maybe keep your dot on for HD and get a 1-4 or 1-6 with a Good QD mount. With good mounts you should be able to swap the optics around between home defense and range use.
 
They are heavy as hell, but if you like shooting small things at any sort of distance they sure are nice.

Mine is a 1.5-6 I have no issue at all with mag.

I still need to take my Holosight and it out and run them through some drills on the clock and see how much difference there is, having run both in matches doesn't feel like much, hits are always better with the mag optic but I think I rush the dot more.
 
I probably just need to get one of at least halfway decent quality, and try it out in different uses. That's how I've had to do it with other sights/optics; but I did want to hear what folks say about them. Thanks!
 
I was shooting iron sights in the corps out to 500 yards with what I would consider fairly good accuracy (minute of man). If I were in your shoes I would get a good set of glasses or some sort of corrective lenses and stick with a dot/holographic site for 200 yards and less.
 
Well, I do wear contacts that correct to ~20/20, but I have a heavy prescription. I do like aperture sights, and I do shoot the M1 and the AR in matches (could always use more practice...or time to do it in...or something like that...)
 
All about distance for me. If you're not planning on anything much over 100yds go with a 2moa RDS, if you want to stretch it out, go scope...

You can also go scope and offset RDS... :cool:
 
I ended up going with a Leupold 1.25x4. I think it is closer to 1.4x4 and It took some getting used to. I absolutely love it now. the dot is probably not even needed in all honesty but is nice at the closer targets. I've gotten to the point that the slight magnification doesn't even bother me.
 
I wouldn't focus on weight. My scope (Burris XTR-II 1.5-8x) is an absolute pig when I'm just standing in the shop overthinking things. But, when the buzzer goes off for a match stage, it doesn't feel any different than when I was running something weighing 1/3 as much.
 
I use an Aimpoint ACO to 550 yards and shoot minute of torso. I have had a good 1-4 on a previous rifle and could shoot a hand-sized group at 500 yards. A good 1-5 (or 1-6 or 1-8) with a lighted reticle I think combines the best of both worlds.
 
This is the issue.

The RDS are set for a point blank zero (100yds, 200yds, 300yds) and based on the target size you pick the correct distance.

1-4x optics work great for the same point blank zero. But the manufactures trick you in to thinking that a reticle with a unit of measure has worth. In a 1-4x they do not. The field of view is so wide the unit of measure is too small to be used.



Please look at the spacing between the stadia lines in the reticle. This is the issue with a 1-4x. The 1-6x is better, but not great. Ask any LR shooter that has a FFP at what setting can he use his reticle. most will say starting around 8x.

So the point of all this is, if you buy a 1-4x get a point blank reticle design. A MOA-MIL reticle is a waste of $$$$
 

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I use a SWFA SS1-4HD. It is 1st focal plane and is as close to a RDS on 1x as you can get while at 4x gives you a mildot reticle and target ID capability.

It's an $800 optic (goes on sale Black Fridays) but in my view is about as perfect as a do-it-all carbine optic can be.

The illumination is great and even without batteries is a formidable and reliable/usable aiming system. Being 1st focal plane, the reticle grows and shrinks with power changes and this is what makes it unique and so versatile.
 
Here it is on 1x and 4x, VERY usable. RDS are possibly a split second faster up close and have the advantage in weird shooting positions but variable power in a quality 1-?x is a game changer for target ID and longer range when a precision shot is needed. For my eyes RDS are just not clear while my SS can be adjusted to where I see the target and reticle clearly.



PICT0096s.JPG
 
Lawless;n6988 said:
Here it is on 1x and 4x, VERY usable. RDS are possibly a split second faster up close and have the advantage in weird shooting positions but variable power in a quality 1-?x is a game changer for target ID and longer range when a precision shot is needed. For my eyes RDS are just not clear while my SS can be adjusted to where I see the target and reticle clearly.
Click to expand...

Unless I do not see it, the reticle you posted looks like two different reticles.
 
JBoyette;n6995 said:
Unless I do not see it, the reticle you posted looks like two different reticles.
Click to expand...

hmm. Those were images I googled. I think the close up might be their newer 1-6HD.This review was one of the things that convinced me to buy this a few years ago and has excellent pics.
On page 3 he compares it to other quality 1-?x scopes and the differences are pretty startling.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/52...__Page_6_.html

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[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/img.photobucket.com\/albums\/v734\/Hokie1850\/IMG_1726.jpg"}[/IMG2]

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/img.photobucket.com\/albums\/v734\/Hokie1850\/IMG_1713-8.jpg"}[/IMG2]

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/img.photobucket.com\/albums\/v734\/Hokie1850\/IMG_1715-4.jpg"}[/IMG2]
 
On a FFP scope, the reticle grows and shrinks with the power change and is therefore usable for range estimation, holdover and holdoff at all power levels which you can actually see the mildots. Obviously the scope I own does not have really usable dots on 1x but we know that's not the point of this setting. 1x was designed so that the circle becomes the aiming "point" with the ghost of the mildots/wire in the middle. This approximates the RDS very well and is actually faster for me with my astigmatism. On about 2.5x I can see and could use the dots but honestly I switch from 1x to 4x and bypass the middle 99.9% of the time.

I have the switchview throwlever (a must as this is a tight turning optic) and can go from RDSesque to precision in one quick swing. I also have the either loved or hated Magpul Pro offset flip irons in case the scope were to be unusable due to damage but it's built like a tank. I practice going from the scope set at 4x to the irons and it is pretty easy and fast but I keep them down all the time. They are just for backup.

This carbine is not set up for competition or long range or house to house, but is set up as a do-it-all that could be used for anything the 5.56 can do. It's my jack of all trades rifle.

It has the "hokie" grip pod on it too, and flopping on your belly when out of breath trying to make a 200 yard shot on a paper plate will make a believer out of you too but that's a topic for another day LOL.
 
Hard to beat a 1-6 Vortex Razor. We run them on our comp guns now. Zeroed at 250 yards with 75 grain pills. Basically a zero hold between 50 and 350 yards at any power. In close the 1 power with the illuminated dot in the center (we run mil mil scopes) and it is almost like a red dot, very fast acquisition and fast target to target transitions in competition.
 
I have both on different rifles. The 1-6 scopes are more versatile. But the quick shots with the aimpoint and trijicon mro seems to be faster for me. But the rds optics go on rifles that are intended for less than 100 yards. Aka pistol carbines and big thumper ar rifles. My 556 rifles all get the 1-6 scopes. John Boyette is %100 correct on the reticle from what I have dealt with.
 
This is all great stuff, especially the photos. I really appreciate it. Y'all have given me a few things to think about.

Budget is a bit flexible, but I don't believe it's quite $800 flexible at this time :D
 
RFMan;n8870 said:
This is all great stuff, especially the photos. I really appreciate it. Y'all have given me a few things to think about.

Budget is a bit flexible, but I don't believe it's quite $800 flexible at this time :D
Click to expand...

I think the Bushnell 1-4x AR optic with illumination (there is also one without) is FFP and gets good reviews.
The only downfall in my view is that it sports target turrets and they could be knocked around in real life hard use.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnell-1-4x24mm-throwdown-pcl-ffp-riflescope.html
 
Anybody tried a Leupold Prismatic?
 
I am loving my Vortex Spitfire prismatic. I got a 1x and am going to try out a 3x on another rifle when I get funds. To my 40-something year old eyes the glass is clearer and the reticle is crisper than any holographic RDS I have looked through including the high end ones.
 
I love the prismatic 1X scopes. So much nicer than a red dot, imo.






Another nice 1X4 to consider is the Steiner PXi. A simple reticle and dot.
 
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