Best advice for beginners

Kwhite73

Kwhite73

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I'm just now getting some stuff together to start reloading rifle ammo. I've done some pistol rounds way back in the day with my great grandpa, he even went as far as molding his own bullets. I just wanna know some of the vast knowledge that is on here. I'm not reloading for quantity, but more for precision. What products do you suggest an why ? Starting with 6.5 creedmoor an 308 an later on 5.56/223 in the future. Any information is appreciated thank you!!
 
For bottleneck rifle loading, I suggest you start with 223. That is what I did. Everything you learn loading 223 will transfer to the other calibers you mention, but the 223 components are more readily available and less expensive. You can learn the process with standard Lee dies, and not spend a lot of money. Try different powders and projectiles and see what works. Then decide if you want to try different dies or methods.

For precision rifle (well, precision for me anyway) I’ve settled on Redding Type S full length bushing style sizing die. You pick a bushing that gives the desired inside diameter. This also works the brass less, so the brass should last longer (more reloads). This is not so much of an issue with 223 brass, which is inexpensive and plentiful, but does help with more expensive brass like 6.5C. The size of the bushing will vary based on the wall thickness of the brass you use. I use a Wilson chamber style seating die, as this gives me less runout than most other dies. It requires an arbor press, though. A Forster seating die also works well and works on the reloading press.

Do you need those just to get started - absolutely not.

Good luck!
 
Keep good records of your loads. Keep the brass segregated as to the number of firings. Aneal brass if you need to. Bad stuff happens when cases start coming apart when fired.

Watch for pressure signs. Loose primer pockets, cratered primers, sticking bolts ect.

Only have one powder out on the bench out and open at one time. Pistol powders in rifles is bad juju and bad stuff happens.

Sometimes you will luck up on a load a gun loves that is very accurate. Other times it's work to find what another gun loves. It's part of the shooting challenge.

Lastly don't go off the reservation when it comes to load data. Compare manuals and start low and look of accuracy. I have a AR in .223 that I can cover three shots with a thumbnail at 100 yards. Is it a max load? Nope. Middle of the load data. So just load, shoot to see if accurate. When you find that load, lay in components for that gun and the on to the next one. Have fun. It can be a wild ride.
 
Kwhite73 said:
Any certain one you would recommend?

@Toprudder thank you I appreciate that will look into 223 first instead of the other way around.
Click to expand...

You can get reloading manuals from the following:

Bullet manufactures
Powder manufactures
Plus others I'm sure.
So go on-line and look up some of the above manufactures that you might be interested in.

Also look at book stores and pickup a copy of "Rifle" magazine, tons of interesting stuff in it.
 
RCBS Rock Chucker press. Hornady and Sierra (5th edition best) reloading manuals. If you are serious about "precision" reloading, skip the cheap Lee dies (nothing wrong with them, I have a have dozen calibers but they are not precision) and get Redding bushing resizing dies with standard seater and buy their micrometer stem. Stay away from anybodys spring loaded micrometer seater. Graduate to Harrells custom made bushing resizing dies and stick with one brand of brass. If all this is too much to start, get a Lee die set per caliber and some Imperial sizing "wax" no matter what.
 
Thank you all of you I really appreciate the input. Can never have to much information before getting into something new.
 
I found the Lee and Lyman manuals to be most useful starting out. Lee is kind of a tool, but he does a good job on fundamentals. Nosler and Speer prefer bragging about their products and telling hunting stories. Hornady I never looked at much.
 
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These are my two favorites. I have been using Hornady data for close to 60 years and still have all my fingers. I have a Lee manual but rarely use it for data since they use the data from other people unless I am greatly mistaken. Their data are also rather incomplete for some of the chamberings I load. The instructions in it are fine. The data put out by the bullet makers are generally for their bullets. They may not always apply to other brands. Manuals for bullets such as Barnes and Nosler would be worth getting if you are going to use their bullets.

It should be obvious that you should not go above published maximum charges. Let the folks with the expensive pressure machines and decades of experience do that. You should also not go below minimum charges. I have had more trouble with charges that were too light than I have with charges that were too heavy. What are the minimum and maximum charges? That is often a very interesting question since data sets often disagree. Sometimes they disagree a lot. Looking at several different sets of data will give you a good idea about where to start.
 
A rehash.. and sorry for the length of this rambling...

Manuals:
The ones who's projectiles you'll be using.

ABC's of reloading not really necessary as you have done pistol at one point

Lyman 50
Sierra / Hornady / Speer / Nosler
Then you have The Bergers Bullets , for the "meat" of reloading its just their bullets and rifle
Bryan Litz for the precision stuff. Applied Ballistics.
As you get into it the older manuals have lots of data for older powders, projectiles, cartridges.

There are several dedicated reading materials on reloading 223 / 5.56.would probably start with
this round. Just a suggestion, remember there are at least 3 different "chambers" 223, 5.56 and Wylde..

you have done pistol reloading so most of this is probably a review:
As mentioned never go above published "max " charges. Your gonna find charges sometimes may not
agree with one another. Take note of several things:
What firearm was used for the data. If not a "universal receiver "
Pay attention to case length, trim to length,, the overall loaded length.
What were the Primers, cases used for the data.

The following is just food for thought
Then you have this same weight, same basic design bullet from different manufacturers, just because they
are the same weight, same description it doesn't mean they are the same, the bullet shapes may be different
(ogive). This will change the amount of jacket / to barrel contact there is ( surface bearing / resistance )
Then you have what makes up each manufacturers jackets ( metals )

The Lyman 50 manual covers an array of bullets for each cartridge..

From a safety standpoint, one powder on the bench at a time, thats the one your using. If in doubt "dump" it
out , start over and stay focused.

Just some thoughts, been doing the reloading thing for over 50+ years probably closer to 60.

For your Precision would be a decent press, Forester Co-Ax, Redding, RCBS, or others, some dies. Either Redding
( or bushing) Mighty Armory, RCBS. Either Cutting Edge Technology bullets, Bergers, Lapua or Sierra.
The above would work well for the 6.5 and the 308. A note 308, Lapua makes both a Small Rifle primer case ( Palma )
and a Large Rifle primer case, shoot both here, just have to keep cases separated accordingly. All of this will work
well across the board.

Some will suggest other things, in all fairness Lee products for the most part I will not comment on as the only thing
I have / use is the APP press, and the old Round tray Autoprimes. Bottom line is "what works for you and your needs"


-Snoopz
 
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Snoopz said:
Then you have this same weight, same basic design bullet from different manufacturers, just because they are the same weight, same description it doesn't mean they are the same, the bullet shapes may be different (ogive). This will change the amount of jacket / to barrel contact there is ( surface bearing / resistance )
Then you have what makes up each manufacturers jackets ( metals )
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This can't be emphasized enough! I remember trying some Shooters World Auto-Pistol powder. This powder is supposed to be very similar (if not identical) to AA#5. There was load data printed on the label for 45acp 230 FMJ that was WAY higher than the data for AA#5. The data on the label was for a Nosler bullet. I emailed their ballistician, Ken Johnson I think was his name, and he said that data was valid but he had intentions of testing the same weight Hornady bullet as well. So, after a week or so, he emailed me back with the results. Max for the Nosler 230 FMJ was 9.3gn @ 1004fps, max for the Hornady 230 XTP was 8.4gn @ 950fps. (Both were seated to the same 1.21" OAL). That is more than 10% difference. That is usually considered to be the starting point, or min value, 10% of the max charge. Different bullets, different profiles. Ken also mentioned that the copper jacket on the Hornady bullets were harder than the jacket of the Nosler, which is probably why the max charges were so much different.

If the bullet manufacturer of the specific bullet you are using has their own load data, that is where you start. All other load data, unless using the same specific bullet from the same manufacturer, should be secondary data.

Whenever I have loaded plated bullets, I usually look to the Western data, as they have quite a bit of data using plated bullets. But, I also look at the Speer data, the data for their TMJ bullets have correlated very closely to my results.

Oh, and a chronograph is a VERY useful resource. Based on the best load data I can find, I am usually looking for a certain velocity range from my loads. If I start to go higher than expected, I stop.

Always start low and work up.
 
To add on top what "Toprudder" said:
Pressure signs, flattened primers, cratered primers, bolt marks, extractor marks, hard bolt lifts, bolt won't open, etc.
These are not scientific by no means, but are / can be signs of hot loads / over charges.

Hornady brass can give you misleading signs of over pressure in my experience
their brass appears to be softer / flows more freely than other brass. given 6.5 CM same load, same bullet, same
primer, and same firearm, no where the indicated "max" , the Hornady brass was the only one that "showed" signs
of pressure, bolt marks, extractor marks, even the primers were not flat, while all the other brass looked normal.

As mentioned above...start at least 10% below max, a chrono comes in very handy.
Change a component.. rethink your load data.
load development is a whole other ball-game, there are different "ways" to arrive at your optimum load for your
given firearm, your gonna hear, "nodes", ladder, OCW, etc.
do .3 gr. increments, .5 gr. , load 5, load 10, depending on the the case capacity I usually use .3 gr. , if larger .5 gr.
(or more) smaller cases like 17 Rem, 22 Hornet, 221 Fireball it's way smaller. Bullet seating depth plays an important
part, seat that bullet deeper will increase pressure in most cases.

-Snoopz
 
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All useful information I do have a chrono my brother gifted me that when I told him I was starting out. I really appreciate all this guys it is not wasted information an I have all of it written down. For reference an will be logging everything that I load an what was used I'm still waiting on stuff to finish setting up my reloading room.
Thank you everyone really
 
Kwhite73 said:
I'm just now getting some stuff together to start reloading rifle ammo. I've done some pistol rounds way back in the day with my great grandpa, he even went as far as molding his own bullets. I just wanna know some of the vast knowledge that is on here. I'm not reloading for quantity, but more for precision. What products do you suggest an why ? Starting with 6.5 creedmoor an 308 an later on 5.56/223 in the future. Any information is appreciated thank you!!
Click to expand...
Take the NRA reloading class. Then do everything else people mention.
 
If you move past your reloading manual and starting looking at more advanced topics online, keep in mind who the source is and what their intended audience is; it may or may not really pertain to you depending on what it is that you're trying to do. For example, a ton of info out there comes from F-Class or other long-range discipline competitors. Tons of data and solid info, but a lot of those guys are trying to squeeze the last .05 MOA out of their rigs at 1000 yards.

For example in my case, I could measure and control concentricity, weight length etc. of every component in my reloads down to the nearest .00001 (using specialized and expensive gear), but I don't think that those things aren't going to turn my mostly stock Remington 700 into a .25 MOA rifle. As is, I can usually get 3/4" MOA accuracy and high single-digit velocity SDs over 5 shot strings with my Lee Classic Turret Press and Pacesetter dies. If I ever get the itch to level up my precision shooting capability, it'll probably take a better rifle to make that happen, not a more precise set of reloading gear.

TLDR: When considering reloading gear, consider it as a single link in your overall shooting system. If you're on a budget, focus on leveling up the weakest link in the chain.
 
V.niner said:
For example in my case, I could measure and control concentricity, weight length etc. of every component in my reloads down to the nearest .00001 (using specialized and expensive gear),
Click to expand...

I want to know what gear is out there to measure that for reloading down to 5 decimal places. 1 hundred thousandths
 
falconew said:
I want to know what gear is out there to measure that for reloading down to 5 decimal places. 1 hundred thousandthsl
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I would have to go back and do some reading of my notes from decades ago to remember how many places I could go to the right of the decimal, but I used a scale that would weigh dessicated mosquito eggs. Those suckers are small. I could watch them gain weight while they were on the pan from absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. I would have to rezero and recalibrate it for every egg. It was not a whole lot of fun.
 
Charlie said:
I would have to go back and do some reading of my notes from decades ago to remember how many places I could go to the right of the decimal, but I used a scale that would weigh dessicated mosquito eggs. Those suckers are small. I could watch them gain weight while they were on the pan from absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. I would have to rezero and recalibrate it for every egg. It was not a whole lot of fun.
Click to expand...
Oh I know there is equipment out there. The the further you get away from that decimal the price starts jumping real fast. I used to use optical flats to measure micrometers . And used to do all the calibrations on the measuring equipment at work.
 
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falconew said:
Oh I know there is equipment out there. The the further you get away from that decimal the price starts jumping real fast. I used to use optical flats to measure misrometers. And used to do all the calibrations on the measuring equipment at work.
Click to expand...
It is out there but has little practical use for a reloader.
 
Been reloading for many years with about every manufacturers product, seems I always drift back to RCBS. Read, study and buy what fits your need.
Rockchucker Supreme
FART tumbler
RCBS dies
WFT trimmers
Ohaus scales
Lee Auto prime or RCBS universal
Harrells powder measure

The above items help make the job precise and simple for me.
 
COTTON said:
Been reloading for many years with about every manufacturers product, seems I always drift back to RCBS. Read, study and buy what fits your need.
Rockchucker Supreme
FART tumbler
RCBS dies
WFT trimmers
Ohaus scales
Lee Auto prime or RCBS universal
Harrells powder measure

The above items help make the job precise and simple for me.
Click to expand...
Ohaus scales...the older ones? As the 10-10, RCBS 10-10, and the Lyman M5? Same scales
Some how always manage to migrate back to the older Rock Chuckers. 5 or 6 around here.

Lee Autoprimes ole round trays? Still got my first 2 (late 70's I think) have the RCBS universal but dont use it.
Dies..RCBS, Mighty Armory, Redding, Whidden.
Powder Measure..Harrells, Redding BR, ole Ohaus Duo-measure (DramWorks glass hopper replacements) Uniflow, old Lyman 55
Brass cleaning..ole Tumblers Model B, Dillon vibrate, mainly DIY wet tumbler.
Trimmer(s) Forster, Ole Lyman, Giraud.
Presses won't even go there start with the "nut cracker" of them my favorites are the Stars, Texan, Hollywood.
This is "stuff" acquired over the years ( decades )

Get your basics and "it will grow" as the months and years go by.
Estate sales, reloaders stopping due to age or health, had one friend who's memory was starting to go, he was gonna sell all of his equipment piece by piece, we came to a agreement and bought it all, wanted to help him out. He thought it's best to stop.

You will find some interesting things at garage sales also.

Its not a rabbit hole ..its a bottomless pit.
Still enjoy it after all these decades. Stopped at one time, just left it all sit. Then one day the bug bit again...everyday is still a learning day.

-Snoopz
 
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