Bible Prophecy Part 1: introduction

[Starkherz199]

Soon I'll begin posting threads about End times Bible prophecy. This post lists the loose order and subjects covered. I'm going to slowly roll this out. Hopefully this will reach the right readers, and some will benefit.

My purpose?
1… to inform.
I will first be posting a survey of the schools of thought as a general overview. I would like to persuade everyone to believe my views, but the purpose is not to do that. At least, not until I give good information so every reader can have enough knowledge that they can articulate all the views in their own words.
Then, you make up your own mind.
Some of the subjects will be short, and some will be very long. Hopefully discussion will be prompted, and good things will come of it.

2…To persuade everyone that Eschatology is an unsettled topic in the church, and urge everyone not to be so dogmatic against others that don't share your views on this one topic. As someone stated in a different post, end times prophecy opinions are tertiary, and should never be a topic that fellowship is harmed over.

3…by illustrating how varied the views of Eschatology are, I can remind the reader that our primary function as Christians is to fulfill the great commission; make disciples of Jesus, and teach his commandment. Obsessing over this topic, and being preoccupied to the point that we neglect the great commission is a grave mistake.

4…To provoke people to read and study the Bible much more that they already do.



If there's a prophecy related topic that you want covered, mention it in this thread. Each topic below will get its own thread. I ask that you keep the discussion about each topic in its own individual thread for organizational purposes.


If I make a factual/informational mistake…make it known and I'll edit posts to reflect it.

Also, if you add something in the thread that is relevant, I may edit the original post and add it.

I'll also add videos when I find them.


Here's the list.

1. Intro
   1. Reading list
   2. Understanding cultural historical context
   3. Covenants and promises
   4. Notes on hermeneutics
2. Schools of Eschatology
3. Eschatology in history
4. Millenium
5. Matthew 24/ Mark 13/ Luke 2
6. Daniels 70 weeks
7. The Antichrist
8. Revelation
9. Dispensationalism
10. Q/A

Here are links to other Prophecy studies
Prophecy CFF links
Part 1

Bible Prophecy Part 1: introduction

Soon I'll begin posting threads about End times Bible prophecy. This post lists the loose order and subjects covered. I'm going to slowly roll this out. Hopefully this will reach the right readers, and some will benefit. My purpose? 1… to inform. I will first be posting a survey of the schools...

carolinafirearmsforum.com

Part 2

Bible Prophecy Part 2: schools of Eschatology

This is a small study on the different schools of Eschatology...or end times teaching. The Schools of Eschatology primarily deal with interpretation of the Revelation of Jesus by John. In this post, I'm trying to be as objective as possible and simply add information that helps illuminate...

carolinafirearmsforum.com

Part 3

Bible Prophecy Part 3: Eschatology in history

This is a series of lectures from a former lawyer/school professor on the changes of Eschatology in history. I'll post the whole series, and come back later to add more comments. This fella is a Presbyterian [ I am not ], but his biases are muted. He does an excellent job. T he 1st video...

carolinafirearmsforum.com

Part 4

Bible Prophecy Part 4: The Millennium

The Millennium -This thread deals with the different views of the Millennium. Discussions of the Millennium come from Revelation chapter 20. Many will list 3 views, but here in this study I list 4, as I break Traditional Premillennialism and Dispensational Premillennialism into different...

carolinafirearmsforum.com

Part 5

Bible Prophecy Part 5: Olivet discourse Part 1: Matthew 24

This is an exegesis of the Olivet discourse found in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. This is a very, very, very long post that will have to be broken up into smaller parts. Also I numbered the paragraphs for easier reference...I'm not infallible. If I get something historically wrong, let me...

carolinafirearmsforum.com

Part 6

Bible Prophecy part 6: Daniel's 70 weeks

Bible Prophecy part 6: Daniel's 70 weeks This is a Bible Study on Daniel’s 70 weeks. This is part 6 The other Bible Prophecy studies are at these links. Prophecy CFF links Part 1 https://carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/bible-prophecy-part-1-introduction.131283/ Part 2...

carolinafirearmsforum.com

 

[Starkherz199]

As i go along,, I'll post more books..
For general historical knowledge of the biblical era:

Reading list

James Usher Annals of the World. Extremely detailed...like a phone book.



Floyd Nolan Jones: The Chronology of the Old Testament.



Bruce Gore: Historical and Chronological Context of the Bible. Very reader friendly. Buy this book first.


Josephus: Complete works. All his books are available for free online. Beware....this copy pictured has very small print.

 

[Starkherz199]

Bible prophecy causes problems in correct 21st century interpretation.
As has been said by theologians in the past,
"Scripture was God’s Word to other people before it became God’s Word to us."
If you want to solve the puzzle of Bible prophecy in order to arrive at God’s intended meaning to the original audience, you need to research the "Historical-cultural context" of each passage in detail.
This is true for all Scripture, but doubly true for prophecy.


The "Historical-cultural context" includes information about the author and the audience — their background, circumstances, and relationship — as well as geographical, social, religious, economic, and political elements connected to the passage


Since God spoke his message in specific, historical situations, we need to see the prophecy from their point of view.


Perhaps the most important thing to know about the biblical writers is why they are writing


Before you attempt to interpret prophecy, answer the following questions:
Who was the author? What was his background? When did he write? What was the nature of his ministry? What kind of relationship did he have with the audience? Why was he writing? Who was the biblical audience? What were their circumstances? How was their relationship to God? What kind of relationship did they have with each other? What was happening at the time the book was written? Are there any other historical-cultural factors that might shed light on the book?
The following book is highly recommended, and a great guide.


And these are resources I reference and recommend:

BIBLICAL HERMENEUTICS A Treatise on the Interpretation of the Old and New Testaments by Milton Spenser Terry

Grasping God’s word : a hands-on approach to reading, interpreting, and applying the Bible by J. Scott Duvall, J. Daniel Hays; 3rd edition

A Basic Guide to Interpreting the Bible Playing by the Rules by Robert H. Stein. 2nd edition


Understanding Prophecy: A Biblical-Theological Approach. By Alan Bandy and Benjamin L Merkle

 

[Starkherz199]

Covenants and promises.

Part of the puzzle of Bible prophecy comes from the tension between the Old covenant and the New covenant

The Bible is the historical account of the fall of mankind, and how God brought sinful humanity back to himself. God used a system of covenants and promises throughout the Bible to achieve this.

Because covenants and promises are the skeletal framework and major themes found in the Bible, you cannot understand the broader picture of the Old and/or New Testament unless you understand it through the lens of the covenants/promises contained therein. Conversely, you will not make sense of Bible prophecy unless you understand those themes.

A covenant is an oath-bound relationship between God and mankind, that involves agreements and promises on the part of each. It's not just a simple contract.

There are two types of covenants: conditional and unconditional

A conditional covenant, also known as "limited" or "a covenant of works", requires mankind to do something in order to fulfill your end of the promise. An example is the covenant between God and Adam & Eve where they get to live and enjoy the garden of Eden, if they do not eat of the fruit of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil". You have to "work" to fulfill a conditional covenant, or promise.

An unconditional covenant, also known as "unlimited" or a "covenant of grace",
requires nothing on the part of mankind to fulfill its end of the promise. God obligates Himself to mankind, and then carries it out. Mankind has not earned or merited this promise, and doesn't have to "work" for it.

There are 5 major covenants in the Bible.

Noahic: (Genesis 8:20-22 9:8-17) God obligated himself to never flood the entire earth again.

Abrahamic: (Genesis 12:1-3; 17:1-14; 22:16-18) God obligated Himself to promised blessing upon Abraham, to make his name great and to make his progeny into a great nation. The covenant also promised blessing to those who blessed Abraham and cursing to those who cursed him. Further, God vowed to bless the entire world through Abraham's seed

Mosaic: (Exodus 19:5-6) God obligates Israel to keep His system of 600+ ceremonial, moral, civil, and Levitical laws. If they do, He will bless them as a nation, and if they disobey, He will curse them. The cursing is found in Leviticus 26, and Deuteronomy 28.

Davidic: (2 Samuel 7:8-19) God promised that David’s lineage would be King of Israel perpetually.

New Covenant: (Jeremiah 31:31-40 Ezekiel 36:22-37 Matthew 26:28; 16:17-19 Gal. 4:22-26) God obligates Himself to forgive sin and restore fellowship with those whose hearts are turned toward Him.

The chief covenant of the Old Testament is the Mosaic covenant
When you think of Israel and Judaism, and the sacrificial system, with the Temple, red heifers, high priests, feast days, jubilee, etc, etc, you're referring to the Mosaic covenant.


Mosaic covenant = Old covenant.
Old Covenant = Old Testament
New Covenant = New Testament


To keep the old covenant, you had to obey and observe all the laws laid out by Moses in the Mosaic covenant. This is also referred to as "keeping the law".

Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, and by doing so created the New Covenant. In fact, Jesus was the only person ever to keep the Old Covenant, and that's what made him the spotless lamb of God and perfect sacrifice to be our substitutoinary atonement. God credited your sin to Jesus, crushed him on the cross, and credited Jesus’s righteousness to you because of faith. Best trade ever!

Jesus combined the Abrahamic covenant, the Mosaic covenant, and the Davidic covenant into the New Covenant.

The New Covenant is where we get the Church. The word “church” [ ἐκκλησία] [ekklēsia], simply means an assembly of believers. That assembly is both Jewish and Gentiles. The New Covenant erased the racial and geographical boundaries that separated people in the Old Testament. So, the New Testament, or New Covenant, is the historical account of God using his son, through a New Covenant, to make the way back to the father through the church, for sinful humanity.

In the Gospels, Epistles, Hebrews, and Acts…that tension you feel between the Jews and the Apostles is the Old Covenant vs the New Covenant.

The tension you feel between Jews and Gentiles [both in Biblical times and now] comes from the Abrahamic covenant.

In that tension is the puzzle of how to interpret end time events, and how we have different schools of thought.

The following book is a great resource.

 

[Starkherz199]

Reserved for notes on hermeneutics

Updated
Interpreting Prophecy

Interpreting biblical prophecy is especially difficult to 21st century western English readers because we have nothing like it in English literature. As a genre, It is entirely unique. We try to make sense of it in our logical framework, and that's how we run into problems.

Before you can understand New Testament prophecy, you must first study Old Testament prophecy. The OT prophets take up as much space in the Bible as the New Testament does, so its quite an undertaking. Also consider that less than 1% of OT prophecy are left to be fulfilled in our time, or beyond.



One problem that many run into is trying to make OT prophecy apply to future unfulfilled events. That usually occurs when one approaches the Bible with a predisposition that forces bad interpretation. You have to discipline yourself to let the Bible speak, instead of speaking for the Bible. The following notes from the book "Grasping God's Word" are applicable. I recommend that book, and definitely recommend the chapter on OT poetry.


The prophetic books contain primarily numerous short spoken or preached messages, usually proclaimed by the prophet to either the nation of Israel or the nation of Judah. They also contain visions from God as well as short narrative sections and symbolic acts.

Only a small percentage of Old Testament prophecy deals with events that are still future to us.


The vast majority of the material in the prophetic books addresses the disobedience of Israel and/or Judah and the consequential impending judgment. The role of the prophet included the proclamation of this disobedience and the imminent judgment as much as it did the prediction of things to come in the more distant future. The prophets use poetry for much of their message, and it is the poetic aspect of their message that is the most foreign to us.


A central feature of Hebrew poetry, remember, is the extensive use of figures of speech. These figures of speech are some of the main weapons in the literary arsenal of the prophets.

Remember that the power of poetry lies in its ability to affect the emotions of the reader or listener. Without doubt, prophetic literature is the most emotional literature in the Bible.


Another important feature to note about the prophets is that their books are primarily anthologies. By this we mean that the prophetic books are collections of shorter units, usually oral messages that the prophets have proclaimed publicly to the people of Israel or Judah. Other literary units, such as narrative, oracles, and visions, are mixed in. Sometimes the delivered oral message is the vision or oracle. It is important to note the collection nature of the books. Like a contemporary collection of a writer’s poetry, the prophetic books contain relatively independent, shorter units. These units are not usually arranged chronologically, and often they do not appear to have thematic order either (see especially Jeremiah). Occasionally a broad overall theme (judgment, deliverance) unites a large section of text, but for the most part, tight thematic unity is absent.


.The interpretive problem for us is that the prophets are not always clear as to when they are looking at near events and when they are looking at far events. The prophets will slide back and forth from describing events that will occur soon within their lifetimes (the near view) to events that will occur during the first advent of Christ (the far view) to events that are still future even for us (the even farther view). These events often seem to be blurred together in the images they present.



The New Testament poses the problems of OT prophecy, but interspersed through different genres. The NT doesn't have books separated into single prophecy books. The New Testament puts prophecy into the account of the Gospels, and inside the Epistles, in small passages. Even Revelation is inside an Epistle to existing Churches. So the reader needs to account for sudden shifts of language.


An example is found in Matthew 24, and Christ's prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd Temple in 70AD. Most of the verses before verse 29 are prophecy interspersed as normal linear text. Then verses 29-31 shifts into apocalyptic poetry-type picture speak. To the mind of a 21st century reader, it sounds like the end of the world, but the 1st century Jewish ear knew that this was Jesus, basically quoting Isaiah from the 13th and 34th chapters. Then he shifts gears into another word picture, and quickly back to foretelling language "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." This is jarring, and difficult to navigate.


Then when you get to Revelation, the apocalyptic style of writing is difficult.

The chief characteristic that makes apocalyptic so unfamiliar to us is its use of images. In its abundant use of visual images. The puzzle we have to solve is what the pictures were supposed to mean to the original audience.

Put in terms that we would know today, if I related a story in this apocalyptic language about a great battle between a red wolf, and a blue demon…fighting with a great orange orb the color of the sun, and the victor would have to fight a powder blue ram, with pitch on their feet the color of the blackest night…and the loser would die, and be sent back home…….we would understand the Wolfpack facing Duke, with the winner going on to face the Tarheels in the ACC tournament. People from 200 years ago, or possibly 200 years from now would be clueless.

So, approach NT prophecy with an inquisitive mind, and humility.

 

[Starkherz199]

Updates still rolling in

 

[pikepole20]

Great reading this is. I have been interested in this topic a long time.

 

[svtf150]

If you are willing to invest the time its gonna take to put this all together, I think I should be willing to try and understand it.
If the rabbithole gets too deep though, I know it's gonna be a struggle, for me anyway.
Thanks for your efforts @Starkherz199

 

[noway2]

@Starkherz199 thank you go taking the time to post. I have enjoyed reading what you’ve said so far. The part:

In the Gospels, Epistles, Hebrews, and Acts…that tension you feel between the Jews and the Apostles is the Old Covenant vs the New Covenant.

The tension you feel between Jews and Gentiles [both in Biblical times and now] comes from the Abrahamic covenant.

struck me as interesting. I have a friend who considers himself devote Xn. I consider myself to be a non practicing pagan. We have a mutual friend who is a rabbi of a small congregation that invites us to come and join them some Saturday and says, “you’ll find yourself among like minded people” ( were all very pro liberty).

My friend says he’s resisted as he feels no need for a different religion (My paraphrasing) whereas I am comfortable with my views but see the importance of standing together regardless of religious view I’m the face of fundamental right and wrong like we do today. In short, we can stand together and respect one another or we can all perish.

Interesting. Can we all come together under a United banner and cause?

 

[keepcalmandcarryon]

To respond to your survey of thought:
The New Testament in general and Revelations in particular were written generations after the historical Jesus in a host of different (and in some cases dead) languages. After that they were edited and translated multiple times so any truth, predictions are long lost.
At best they can be used as a “spiritual rorschach“ test to examine ones inner feelings.

 

[fieldgrade]

To respond to your survey of thought:
The New Testament in general and Revelations in particular were written generations after the historical Jesus in a host of different (and in some cases dead) languages. After that they were edited and translated multiple times so any truth, predictions are long lost.
At best they can be used as a “spiritual rorschach“ test to examine ones inner feelings.

Yer arguing with a bonafide Bible scholar.

May the force be with you. You’ll need it.

 

[xnavysalvage]

To respond to your survey of thought:
The New Testament in general and Revelations in particular were written generations after the historical Jesus in a host of different (and in some cases dead) languages. After that they were edited and translated multiple times so any truth, predictions are long lost.
At best they can be used as a “spiritual rorschach“ test to examine ones inner feelings.

Not true
And don’t you think the God that spoke the world into existence would also be able to preserve his word for us today?

 

[fieldgrade]

I know it’s Friday night and all, but I hope folks will be respectful of the fact this is in The Chapel section of the forum, me included.

The OP is a longtime member of this on-line community that predates it’s 2016 inception by many years, and is also a valued member of the Carolina’s shooting community.

I hope we will afford his efforts with respect to share some of his knowledge, whether we agree with it or not. And for those who don’t, please allow those who to do enjoy Mike’s presentation of this material.

 

[keepcalmandcarryon]

Not true
And don’t you think the God that spoke the world into existence would also be able to preserve his word for us today?

There is a clear historical record of the bible as we know it today changing and evolving through the millennia up to and including entire gospels being added and removed. I would not characterize that is “preserving”. Editing perhaps but not preserving.
In comparison the Torah and Talmud have remained remarkably unchanged over a longer period.

 

[xnavysalvage]

Dude
I am not here to debate you
And that seems to be where you want to go
I have studied quite a bit and I will reassert your claims as false
If you aren’t here to dig into end times prophecy, why are you here?

 

[keepcalmandcarryon]

Dude
I am not here to debate you
And that seems to be where you want to go
I have studied quite a bit and I will reassert your claims as false
If you aren’t here to dig into end times prophecy, why are you here?

then why did you ask me a question if you didn’t want a conversation? Seriously I would have not posted anything more on this thread but you specifically asked a question. Don’t want me to answer a question? Easy, don’t ask one.

 

[Starkherz199]

@Starkherz199 thank you go taking the time to post. I have enjoyed reading what you’ve said so far. The part:


struck me as interesting. I have a friend who considers himself devote Xn. I consider myself to be a non practicing pagan. We have a mutual friend who is a rabbi of a small congregation that invites us to come and join them some Saturday and says, “you’ll find yourself among like minded people” ( were all very pro liberty).

My friend says he’s resisted as he feels no need for a different religion (My paraphrasing) whereas I am comfortable with my views but see the importance of standing together regardless of religious view I’m the face of fundamental right and wrong like we do today. In short, we can stand together and respect one another or we can all perish.

Interesting. Can we all come together under a United banner and cause?

For the cause of liberty, yes. Marxists ultimately endeavor to find the faults in society and force cracks and chasms between people. If people are smart, they can stand together and repel the poison that is destroying our country.
People of different religions persuasions can stand together, but disagree on religions matters. But it'll take a critical thinking educated group.

 

[Starkherz199]

To respond to your survey of thought:
The New Testament in general and Revelations in particular were written generations after the historical Jesus in a host of different (and in some cases dead) languages. After that they were edited and translated multiple times so any truth, predictions are long lost.
At best they can be used as a “spiritual rorschach“ test to examine ones inner feelings.

This post is incorrect in many ways, and is not the aim of this thread. If you interested in the answers to why its not correct, I would love to explore it in a different thread.
Respectfully, I say that after l get this Prophecy study finished. I am in the middle of a lot of teaching in my own church, planning and writing lessons for the months leading up to the summer. At this present time. I don't have the time to devote to this subject.
At a later date I would love to talk about it, if you have the patience with me to wait.

 

[Starkherz199]

Again

There is a clear historical record of the bible as we know it today changing and evolving through the millennia up to and including entire gospels being added and removed. I would not characterize that is “preserving”. Editing perhaps but not preserving.
In comparison the Torah and Talmud have remained remarkably unchanged over a longer p

Again...absolutely incorrect.

 

[B00ger]

Was going to comment on the "Its been edited so many times" yarn, but glad to see yall have already shed light on that being a falsehood.

 

[pikepole20]

I hope we can continue without the interjection of one going forward. This has always been an interesting topic to me personally. If we are watching the thread, then, we have already determined to ourselves the accuracy and inerrant qualities of the Bible. We do not need the waters muddied. When he gets to it, I am very interested in his study of the timing of the rapture. I am here learn and explore from the knowledge of someone else. To learn, you need to be quiet and listen with your two ears and not open your one mouth.

 

[Starkherz199]

I hope we can all benefit from this.
I will say this...some of these parts will be short. Some are long. The one on Matthew 24/Mark 13/Luke 21 is going to be very very very long. I'm delivering that sermon this Sunday; the narrative is long. I normally write an outline. I write it out in full narrative format, and then reduce it to a simplified outline. I'm not a good preacher...I'm more of a teacher. Right now the narrative is 30 pages single spaced. I'll give an overview of it Sunday, and save the details for our Bible study services.
Make no mistake...if you like this series, dislike it, or whatever , know that I am collating information found in many books. Don't send any praise this way...I may deserve the scorn, but I don't deserve any thumbs up for collating other people's stuff on a gun forum.
Writing down what I've researched helps me commit it to memory. The best teachers teach from an overflowing of knowledge. Reposting it here is just a bonus.

 

[Starkherz199]

Post #5 above is updated with notes on hermeneutics.
Also...a few other recommendations.
These are background commentaries. Its a different kind of commentary, but a great resource to understand the cultural context



Also this one. I don't normally recommend books i haven't read and or don't own, but this commentary is referenced in other books I trust.