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Big 10mm Boolits/molds/etc..?

Discussion in 'Casting' started by bigfelipe, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    So I have my Glock 20 set up for my can now. Now I'm looking for a subsonic round that makes use of the 10mm capacity. 200gr rounds are great, but with the cartridge length and case volume, I'm thinking a much heavier bullet could be pushed around 1000fps. Say, something in the 260+ range? Maybe? Maybe that's just too big but if it is slowed down to subsonic speed, bigger is better. Anyone seen anything like that I could use to start working up a load?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
  2. 1911gobang

    1911gobang Username at Gmail....

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  3. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    Thanks buddy. 10gr isn't enough to get excited about but it is heading in the right direction. I feel like in that long case with a light load there's plenty of room to cram 250 maybe even 260 into it. I would love to have a custom mold made if I could figure out whether it would work or not...
     
  4. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    I was on mountain molds messing around with their custom order page and made this monster... Lol... Think it could work?

    Screenshot_20200327-011548_Brave.jpg
     
  5. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    I figure if you can cram a 160+ grain bullet in little 9mm cases we can do much better than 220 in 10mm...
     
  6. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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  7. 1911gobang

    1911gobang Username at Gmail....

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    Wow!!! I’d definitely be interested in seeing those bad boys. It’s definitely possible.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    Right? 300gr @ 1000fps is 666ftlbs of energy and quiet... Could be a fun plinker, and with Hardcast, a nasty hammer of a hunting/HD round

    Maybe a bit too big, but even 260-280gr would do what I'm looking for...
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
  9. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    Most of that is out of my area, 10mm, subsonic, the works.............I am sure the twist rate is quite slow, most are unfortunately and have not come around to modern thinking. You might run into stability issues with bullets that are that heavy? Not sure. I know I tried some 400s in 454 and 45 Colt many years ago, they were sideways at 10 yards. ?????? I know little to zero about 10mm...............
     
  10. MacEntyre

    MacEntyre Shoot on Sight! Charter Member Supporting Member

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    So, you want to turn a 10mm into a 45acp?
     
  11. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    Exactly why I passed on anything .400....... 45 just sounds better..........
     
  12. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    We also loaded some 44 Special in the 325 grain lead. When we shot them out of a 3 inch gun they would key hole at 7 yards. That was just fine for me and I used some for awhile.
    I am more concerned about OAL. That heavy in .40 cal is going to be L O N G. Give it a good search and perhaps you can come up with a source to just "try" 50 or so. Also, bear in mind that as Mike and I know, Anything can be done. It's simply a matter of Time and Money. Sometimes the outcome is good and sometimes not. I certainly hope you end up with what you want, I just think it is opposite of what the caliber is intended for.



    One more thing and Mike can tell you much more than I can...don't Ever get carried away with energy numbers. Useless except for marketing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  13. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    I figured it would be outside your interest, but being as knowledgeable as you are worth a shot. Didn't even think about the twist. That's definitely a concern shooting through a can. Might be a non-starter just on that or it could just limit the top end.

    It's really the math I don't know. Figuring case capacity vs seating depth. Powder load to push the projectile the requisite FPS. That sort of thing. I've never created a load outside the norm. Looking for tips on how to find data I can build off with relative safety...
     
  14. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    No I want to go much heavier as an option for suppressor use in a caliber that's much more flexible than the 45acp. I've got everything from 100gr@1875fps to 135-155gr @1500-1600+fps to 200-220gr @1200-1300fps. I was just figuring if I followed the curve I could "potentially" get a 250-260gr or heavier going about 1000fps, and it would in theory be a subsonic hammer with hardcast lead, as well as being quiet...
     
  15. Catfish

    Catfish E Pluribus Mendacium Supporting Member

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    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  16. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    If it's stable enough to get through a can it could still be useful I suppose. Probably limited enough to not be worthwhile though. @Michael458 brought up a good point about the twist rate. Didn't occur to me. That's why I ask the pros.

    Length is obviously my main concern aside from stability with figuring out where the limits rest. I need to find a load/projectile combo that fits in the case and gets me to 1000fps. Might be much lighter than I'm thinking. If I can get 220gr @1200 surely I can get 250 up to 1k? And I know energy numbers are a poor indicator, but they're easy to calculate as a base idea. Basically I'm going with the assumption that a narrower bullet that's a little longer and heavier will be a better penetrator than a lighter, shorter, fatter bullet, ie 45acp 230gr ball/hardcast...
     
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  17. Catfish

    Catfish E Pluribus Mendacium Supporting Member

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  18. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    I actually have a couple of their molds up on my screen. It's most likely a custom mold. I searched every mold maker I could think of didn't have any luck beyond 240gr. Probably a reason for that. I played with some mold design software but it's limited in what you can do. For example, to max weight I would go with a flat based, PC bullet without lube grooves or gas check cut. The design software on Mountain Molds doesn't allow you to go below a tumble lube design.
     
  19. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    I can't imagine that 320 is short enough. I was looking at the 265 smooth, but I think it's too long as well. That truncated cone 265 would be a consideration if it could be shrunk to eliminate the lube grooves all together.
     
  20. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    I think the available 220s at 1K would suit you perfect.
     
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  21. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    Thank you.

    One thing when you are looking at these, there are .400 caliber rifles, some of these might be primarily designed for that purpose.

    Bigfelipe. I am not 100% sure of your end goal, or objective. If subsonic, the only thing a heavier bullet is going to give you is some depth of penetration, while it weighs more, and "The Math/Numbers" says it might have more energy, in the real world it is not going to transfer that energy into trauma inflicted. Just depth of penetration, IF it is stable.

    Now, ask this of yourself, how much MORE penetration do you really need for whatever application or mission you have in mind??

    If staying SubSonic, and not requiring serious depth of penetration, then you might be far better off in the long run just going with something that is easy available and much less trouble???

    Something to consider.
     
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  22. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    That got posted while I was typing my post.......... What I said basically, just shorter... LOL
     
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  23. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    End goal? Interesting project developing a suppressor oriented hunting round that doesn't exist in the marketplace. You're probably right that it's not worth it and I'm sure it's not an original idea. Still I think it could be worth a look.

    Maybe not a bear round, exactly, but a big 10mm sub could take pigs, deer, etc quietly and effectively. A lot of people take game with 10mm. Just looking at the flexibility of the cartridge and what it could potentially do. I like the idea of it as my RV pistol when I travel. Legal in National Parks, and capable of taking in just about anything in a pinch with the right ammo.
     
  24. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    Also, I have one of these on the way in the coming weeks and it will double as a compact PDW/PCC... Please forgive the lame spark-filled art shots of the Flux brace...

    Screenshot_20200328-130044_Brave.jpg
     
  25. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    I am sorry, I am completely ignorant about some things, for instance, Glock 20. Assuming that is 40 S&W? If so, my sources indicate to me you do not have enough case capacity in that cartridge to achieve reasonable results with those heavy bullets. Even 220s, which is the heaviest I see on one source, is maxed out at 800 fps. I don't think that cartridge can support much heavier. And, there may be twist rate issue above that weight as well.

    I think you would need another cartridge with more capacity, and probably a larger platform to achieve those goals with those heavier bullets. I don't think you have enough cartridge, IF that is 40 S&W. ????

    Wish I was more help.
     
  26. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    Glock 20 is 10mm. I have Underwood 220gr hardcast that are pushing 1200fps. So, I'm pretty certain more is possible. Just not sure how much more...
     
  27. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    How about something like this..?

    Screenshot_20200328-164208_Brave.jpg
     
  28. Crazy Carl

    Crazy Carl seriously? Life Member

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    I know some guys at the single actions forum play with hot .38-40, 10mm Mag, .401 Herter's & the like. They may have some tips/advice for the heavies.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
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  29. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    I found out there's a 10mm forum that is surprisingly big... Gonna haunt it for a bit and see if I can glean some wisdom from them...

    I see @MCQUADE is on there...
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  30. MacEntyre

    MacEntyre Shoot on Sight! Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Not arguing with you... I understand what you are after.

    I've loaded 45acp with 250 - 260 grain bullets. It certainly is a subsonic hammer with hardcast lead. If'n you load 10mm with 250 grain hardcast lead and an appropriate charge, it will be as well... jus' sayin'!
     
  31. bigfelipe

    bigfelipe Phil-osopher... Charter Life Member

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    No argument here. I get what you were saying. It occurred to me too. I have 45s too...
     
  32. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    Ya See! I didn't have a clue. But now, we are on the right track, and getting a load with the heavy bullet is just not a big issue, if it is stable, and probably 250-270 will be.

    Drop me a note when you get the bullet and we will find a load for you, I have the case capacities and list of appropriate powders for that.......
     
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  33. MacEntyre

    MacEntyre Shoot on Sight! Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Good grief, Michael! You said you knew zero to little on 10mm... but you have everything needed to develop a subsonic starting load. o_O

    When are you gonna publish Billy & Michael's Reloading Manual? I'd buy one ahead of time, just for 45 Colt!

    (The Title has to be "Billy & Michaels'..." to make it more down-home than just "Michael's..." Billy could write the Foreword. :p)
     
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  34. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    No that is an easy one, there is some data available, I can take that, a little bit of math and knowledge about pressures, and would not be difficult to come up with some starting points. There is data out there 10mm and 220s anyway, and can
    go from there with the added weight factored in.

    Easy. What is not quite as easy is to do a cartridge that has never existed and there has never been data on. In the beginning, all the .500 caliber rifle cartridges here. Starting from zero is not so easy, but a hell of a lot of fun. I have done quite a bit of this sort of thing. And then venturing into the dark with blended powders and unknown cartridges...... much fun....
     
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  35. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    Get yourself a Cartridges of the World 15th Edition. Many mentions of the B&M Series and work done. Check it out for 10mm notes.
     
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  36. Starkherz199

    Starkherz199 Professional Contrarian Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Interesting thread. Following
     
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  37. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    We venture into the unknown weekly. This week we have to come up with a SubSonic load for 50 B&M. Have a chap building a rifle and wants it to be totally for subsonic use. That is a first. However, it should be easy, already have some light duty loads with 400 Sierras at 1250. Should not be hard to drop it to 1000-1050. Also loading up some 350 Lehighs and 400 Lehighs for the 50 B&M AK lever guns. We have data of course, but not on the Lehighs, loading test loads now.
    Of course these are very easy ventures compared to many such things.
     
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  38. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    Soon as Felipe gets some bullets we can guide him in the right direction to get started anyway....... Should not be a big hairy deal.
    We are now on standby until further notice.........
     
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  39. MacEntyre

    MacEntyre Shoot on Sight! Charter Member Supporting Member

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    :eek: