Binary Trigger question/thoughts

nchunt101

nchunt101

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I found a stripped PSA lower the other night when consolidating and cleaning my safe out and am contemplating building an obnoxious range toy/blaster. I am halfway considering uses either a Fostech Echo or the Franklin Armory trigger. My experience with both is limited to watching mag dumps on YouTube so any input would be great. Really trying to decide if they are worth the money compared to something like Geissele SD35. Also considering the Geissele rapid fire trigger Brownells has on sale.

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Darkhorse said:
I have the Fostech and haven’t had any issues with it. I would buy another can’t speak for the other brands.
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Thanks. Did you have to tinker with buffer weights/springs etc before it ran right? Also do you think they are worth the extra cost over something like a SD3G? As immature as it sounds I really want a somewhat obnoxious blaster to do mag dumps with and dont mind paying a bit extra for the fun factor.

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nchunt101 said:
Thanks. Did you have to tinker with buffer weights/springs etc before it ran right? Also do you think they are worth the extra cost over something like a SD3G? As immature as it sounds I really want a somewhat obnoxious blaster to do mag dumps with and dont mind paying a bit extra for the fun factor.

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Didn’t tinker with anything it just dropped in and we tried her out. 30rd mag don’t last long.
 
I have the BFS3 and have only put a few mags through it. I had to change to the stiffer recoil spring but later overran the bolt with it too. I haven't been able to get a consistent rapid cadence, but I'm sure I could with enough practice. After a few mags of 5.56 though I'm seriously thinking about a 22LR conversion before I shoot it all up.
 
Flashpoint said:
I have the BFS3 and have only put a few mags through it. I had to change to the stiffer recoil spring but later overran the bolt with it too. I haven't been able to get a consistent rapid cadence, but I'm sure I could with enough practice. After a few mags of 5.56 though I'm seriously thinking about a 22LR conversion before I shoot it all up.
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I got a BFSIII a couple of years ago. I had to RMA it due to the hammer being out of spec. I installed it in a spikes lower but did not shoot it. I tested the trigger/safety function last week and the safety will go back to safe position after the hammer falls. I am seriously considering installing it in a S&W M&P15-22 before I call them for a troubleshooting session.
 
The Geisselle rapid fire from Brownells is apparently the lower QC version of the super 3 gun. Great trigger. I have one in my M&P15-22 for 2 gun rimfire matches.

I think a binary trigger would be fun a time or two, but quickly get put in the back of the safe after the novelty wore off or the ammo ran out. Might be fun for a little longer in a 22. But that's just me.
 
Meh. For the money I would rather just have a super nice single stage like the Clavin Elite or Hiperfire or two stage like the AR Gold or TriggerTech.

Binary is a novelty that will quickly get old. Just my opinion.
 
I am not a fan BUTTTTTTTT

If one is going this route I highly advise that one installs this kind of a trigger in a AR where all parts meets Mil-Spec guidelines. I know Mil-Spec is not the best..........

Example 5.56mm not .223rem, bolt catches, bolts, carriers, gas tubes, gas blocks, so on and so on.

But I do not want a bomb in my hand do to one part not being rated for full auto fire. I know, these triggers are not full auto......

Think about it
 
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NKD said:
Meh. For the money I would rather just have a super nice single stage like the Clavin Elite or Hiperfire or two stage like the AR Gold or TriggerTech.

Binary is a novelty that will quickly get old. Just my opinion.
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I would normally agree with you but after thinning the herd to focus more on quality/usefulness I have found I miss having a dumb ass blaster. I caught a Fostech Echo Sport on sale last week. Worst case if the novelty wears thin I should be able to move the trigger without loosing any money.
 
nchunt101 said:
I would normally agree with you but after thinning the herd to focus more on quality/usefulness I have found I miss having a dumb ass blaster. I caught a Fostech Echo Sport on sale last week. Worst case if the novelty wears thin I should be able to move the trigger without loosing any money.
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Cool, I imagine you'll have plenty of fun with it!
 
Guy on ARF posted this one in a thread sometime in the last couple days:

 
Late to this tread as usual. I have heard of the Fostech. I hear they work well. Do not need any buffer changes. I heard they are fun. Just what I hear anyway.
 
BlackGun said:
Late to this tread as usual. I have heard of the Fostech. I hear they work well. Do not need any buffer changes. I heard they are fun. Just what I hear anyway.
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That was one of the main reason I chose the Fostech over the Franklin. I have read they occasionally need heavy buffer which isn't big deal. I wish I could do a review but FedEx managed to deliver the trigger to the wrong address which has been a head ache. Thankfully the vendor shipped another out yesterday that should be delivered tommorow. Really looking forward to trying it out. Not sure if I will be building the lower as a pistol or not. I had planned on using my M6A2 upper with it but a pistol would likely be a more enjoyable blaster/toy.

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nchunt101 said:
That was one of the main reason I chose the Fostech over the Franklin. I have read they occasionally need heavy buffer which isn't big deal. I wish I could do a review but FedEx managed to deliver the trigger to the wrong address which has been a head ache. Thankfully the vendor shipped another out yesterday that should be delivered tommorow. Really looking forward to trying it out. Not sure if I will be building the lower as a pistol or not. I had planned on using my M6A2 upper with it but a pistol would likely be a more enjoyable blaster/toy.

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I hear you better hold on tight, aim low, and watch as the muzzle rises. I hear you have to get a good stance which braces for repetitive shots. Just what I hear.
 
Don't these binary triggers work like a standard trigger as well? I recall something about flipping the selector to the happy switch location to activate the binary option. Is that not the case?
 
bigfelipe said:
Don't these binary triggers work like a standard trigger as well? I recall something about flipping the selector to the happy switch location to activate the binary option. Is that not the case?
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Yes on the Echo II, the sport model has a button on the trigger itself to enable the echo function.
 
Been reading about these. A lot of people seem to complain about outrunning the bolt and hammer follow on the Franklin? Sounds like a recipe for disaster if you need your rifle to function 100%.
 
bigfelipe said:
Been reading about these. A lot of people seem to complain about outrunning the bolt and hammer follow on the Franklin? Sounds like a recipe for disaster if you need your rifle to function 100%.
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AFAIK It will not overrun the bolt in semi-mode, and if it does overrun in Binary mode, charge it.
 
bigfelipe said:
Been reading about these. A lot of people seem to complain about outrunning the bolt and hammer follow on the Franklin? Sounds like a recipe for disaster if you need your rifle to function 100%.
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Yeah, I tend to agree. However, I can’t imagine anyone using a binary trigger as anything but a fun add on. While I would love to have one, ive shot enough to know that full auto-or even close to full auto on a carbine is pretty ineffective.

I may be showing some “fudd” here, but full auto is meant to be an area denial tool to suppress and enemy. It’s hard to suppress an area with 30 rounds, at least any more effectively than one could going mag dump in semi auto mode.

I also saw a test once where a guy had 5 targets places in front of him and he had to engage them all in full auto and then in semi auto. In full auto he only scored like 3-5 hits between all the targets, on semi he hit all the targets multiple times and was only marginally slower.

Long story short: I think it would be an Uber cool toy....like a bump stock...but effectively ineffective for real use.


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B00ger said:
Yeah, I tend to agree. However, I can’t imagine anyone using a binary trigger as anything but a fun add on. While I would love to have one, ive shot enough to know that full auto-or even close to full auto on a carbine is pretty ineffective.

I may be showing some “fudd” here, but full auto is meant to be an area denial tool to suppress and enemy. It’s hard to suppress an area with 30 rounds, at least any more effectively than one could going mag dump in semi auto mode.

I also saw a test once where a guy had 5 targets places in front of him and he had to engage them all in full auto and then in semi auto. In full auto he only scored like 3-5 hits between all the targets, on semi he hit all the targets multiple times and was only marginally slower.

Long story short: I think it would be an Uber cool toy....like a bump stock...but effectively ineffective for real use.


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I disagree. I've shot a lot of full auto. It can be difficult to control, especially if your adrenaline is up. Definitely has its place though.

It's not so much about simulation of full auto, but something akin to burst fire like the M-16A4 the Marines use or some of the MP5s. It could have the benefit of some fire suppression ability or the potential to put multiple rounds on target quickly and efficiently.

Bump stocks are bullshit range toys. They work on the basis of a lack of control of the firearm. These triggers have more precision potential.

Of course this all hinges on the system being reliable. It doesn't sound like these are there yet. A weapon that doesn't fire in a crucial situation is a no go for me. I hear the MIM parts in the other have a failure rate that I would not be comfortable with.

If these issues can be hashed out, I see great upside with these trigger systems...


I'd also like to see a flat trigger model like my CMCs...
 
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bigfelipe said:
I disagree. It's not so much about simulation of full auto, but something akin to burst fire like the M-16A4 the Marines use or some of the MP5s. It could have the benefit of some fire suppression ability or the potential to put multiple rounds on target quickly and efficiently.

Bump stocks are bullshit range toys. They work on the basis of a lack of control of the firearm. These triggers have more precision potential.

Of course this all hinges on the system being reliable. It doesn't sound like these are there yet. A weapon that doesn't fire in a crucial situation is a no go for me. I hear the MIM parts in the other have a failure rate that I would not be comfortable with.

If these issues can be hashed out, I see great upside with these trigger systems...


I'd also like to see a flat trigger model like my CMCs...
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Well, I don’t think we fully disagree, my point that i didn’t make well enough is they are adding complexity to a system which can be a point of failure, and it’s not enough of a benefit over semi-auto in a “self defense” dedicated firearm to be worth it.


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B00ger said:
Well, I don’t think we fully disagree, my point that i didn’t make well enough is they are adding complexity to a system which can be a point of failure, and it’s not enough of a benefit over semi-auto in a “self defense” dedicated firearm to be worth it.


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I don't think it's as much a complexity issue for me as a reliability issue. Not much more complex than a normal auto sear weapon. I'm more concerned with the bolt overrun/part failure rate.
 
bigfelipe said:
I don't think it's as much a complexity issue for me as a reliability issue. Not much more complex than a normal auto sear weapon. I'm more concerned with the bolt overrun/part failure rate.
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Cool


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So, birthday is a week from today, I figured why the heck not?

I went to one of my LGS’s and got the BFS 111 curved trigger. Brought it home, installed it in a beater Frankenrifle, loaded up some mags and WOOOO!!![emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]

Didn’t need it, probably only shoot it when my sons come to my house to plink, and really don’t see much purpose behind it other than a giggle or two. It is damn fun, though!!


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A binary trigger, as with an auto set up is only as good as the trigger puller, volume of fire doesn't equate to effectiveness of fire.
Give me a good single stage trigger, a quality rifle, and good ammo, and a novelty trigger is a joke
 
USMC6094 said:
A binary trigger, as with an auto set up is only as good as the trigger puller, volume of fire doesn't equate to effectiveness of fire.
Give me a good single stage trigger, a quality rifle, and good ammo, and a novelty trigger is a joke
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USMC6094 said:
A binary trigger, as with an auto set up is only as good as the trigger puller, volume of fire doesn't equate to effectiveness of fire.
Give me a good single stage trigger, a quality rifle, and good ammo, and a novelty trigger is a joke
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Wouldn't that depend on your definition of effective? Maybe area denial or fire suppression is your goal?
 
Flashpoint said:
Wouldn't that depend on your definition of effective? Maybe area denial or fire suppression is your goal?
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Show me any civilian that's educated in plunging fire, defalade, or any kind of area fire and you might have something, but Binary triggers, bump stocks, and Hellfire type enhancers are nothing more than gimmicky ways to waste ammunition

Without training and a shit load of practice, point firing is a lot easier than area firing
 
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USMC6094 said:
Show me any civilian that's educated in plunging fire, defalade, or any kind of area fire and you might have something, but Binary triggers, bump stocks, and Hellfire type enhancers are nothing more than gimmicky ways to waste ammunition

Without training and a shit load of practice, point firing is a lot easier than area firing
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Well, I think we need to be a little fair here.

For some, you are absolutely right. Just an awesome way to “let the big dog eat” and do some mag dumps at the range, impress your friends, and have fun.

But for some who use their firearms as defensive tools, learn how to use them, and practice regularly...I think they could be a good option. Unless I am reading something wrong, adding one doesn’t lock one in to using it in the binary mode. It does, however give an option of increased volume of fire.

And no, I don’t fully understand plunging fire, defolade, and all that fun army guy stuff...but I do understand “bad guy over there, shoot lots to keep him from moving.”

And for the record, I don’t have one (though I want one). Adding one to any of my current blasters would effectively add 50% to their cost.


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Remoulade, shooting plungers, whatever...

The binary doohickey is fun as hell, and WAAAYYYY cheaper than a FA anything....

Imma build a rimfire AR suppressor host and put a binary trigger in it, some kind of red dot optic, and get about 10 extra magazines.

Why?? Cuz it’s frikkin’ FUN, that’s why.
I promise the tactical advantage or disadvantage of the thing NEVER crossed my mind. Just the giggle factor....


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I'm neither here, nor there about them in all honesty, I've seen the worst of them at local ranges, and I'm just not impressed by them.

To each his own, I wouldn't turn down trigger time and using someone else's ammo either lol
 
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Fostech Echo II here. Had it for a while and let it “age” as I don’t blast a lot. I finally took it out and yes, it is a hoot.

No tuning was required. It just ran. Sometimes it felt like it was running away. It surprised me how much fun it was.

I’ll definitely be taking it out again but maybe practice a little control - just three rounds at a time. The non-binary trigger pull is like a mil-spec single. I can’t recall what the binary pull is like. That wasn’t what I was focused on.

I will not be handing it to anyone else at the firing line however. If you don’t keep that muzzle down, it’s bullets over the berm.
 
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