Black Talon
- Thread starter RHUNTER513
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Sure, throw it up in the BST for cell.
That's some of them police-seekin' boolits, right?
I still have a box of 9mm and am hoping it will go bitcoin so I can retire.
In the 90's, Jacketed hollow points were the cutting edge of new bullet tech.
Black Talons were used by some douche canoe to shoot up a fast food joint. One of the dead was a father, and his son was paralyzed as the jacket of the bullet severed his spine. It was on Oprah, the Gem of America, who launched a campaign to ban Black Talons.
The bullet did exactly what it was supposed to do, but that is applying logic to our savior, the queen of the woke libtards.
The company, stopped production of these evil and most foul projectiles, and immediately launched the XST line of bullets (Which stood for Same eXact Thing) the just didn't paint them black.
They were never actually banned, per se.
However, some libtard agencies like the Brady Project, pointed out that hollow points were illegal for military use according to the Geneva Conventions and Hague Treaties, and argued that they were cruel and inhumane. (These "think tank" groups blatantly ignored the fact that certain exceptions are allowed, specifically the use of hollow points in Anti Terrorism units and missions, but why should facts matter when you are manufacturing outrage?)
So there is no law regarding that you cannot sell them, unless you knowing sold them to a criminal with known criminal intent...
They are now collectors items
Black Talons were used by some douche canoe to shoot up a fast food joint. One of the dead was a father, and his son was paralyzed as the jacket of the bullet severed his spine. It was on Oprah, the Gem of America, who launched a campaign to ban Black Talons.
The bullet did exactly what it was supposed to do, but that is applying logic to our savior, the queen of the woke libtards.
The company, stopped production of these evil and most foul projectiles, and immediately launched the XST line of bullets (Which stood for Same eXact Thing) the just didn't paint them black.
They were never actually banned, per se.
However, some libtard agencies like the Brady Project, pointed out that hollow points were illegal for military use according to the Geneva Conventions and Hague Treaties, and argued that they were cruel and inhumane. (These "think tank" groups blatantly ignored the fact that certain exceptions are allowed, specifically the use of hollow points in Anti Terrorism units and missions, but why should facts matter when you are manufacturing outrage?)
So there is no law regarding that you cannot sell them, unless you knowing sold them to a criminal with known criminal intent...
They are now collectors items
What caliber do you have?
I still have a handful of them @thrillhill gave me long ago. Not sure what to do with them. Maybe someday I can show them to the Boyz for street cred, lol.
My non hunter neighbor asked if I would keep an eye out for any porcupines that were wreaking havoc on her shrubbery and kill any found near the house and the very nicely manicured grounds in the general vicinity. Given that they had given me permission to hunt several very large tracts totalling a couple thousand acres, I was glad to help.
The day I spotted one I happened to be carrying a Delta Elite with Black Talons. When the deed was done I did an impromptu necropsy (very carefully). The damage done was staggering. Imagine a sharpened blender blade ripping through tissue at 70 to 80 thousand rpm. The recovered round remained intact and looked exactly like the marketing photos.
I still have 7 boxes for when nothing but the very best will do.
The day I spotted one I happened to be carrying a Delta Elite with Black Talons. When the deed was done I did an impromptu necropsy (very carefully). The damage done was staggering. Imagine a sharpened blender blade ripping through tissue at 70 to 80 thousand rpm. The recovered round remained intact and looked exactly like the marketing photos.
I still have 7 boxes for when nothing but the very best will do.
There was actually a left wing doctor that said that the bullet was so sharp that he cut his finger removing one from a patient. Who the hell takes out a bullet with his damn fingers?
A left wing one who wants to make a point and ignores all sharps and infectious disease protocols.
They were nothing more than the first really good Jacketed Hollow Point with a great marketing department behind them.
Eventually, Winny retired the SXT rounds, and they became the Winchester Ranger series of bullets, still carried by many LEO agencies today.
It's what I carry
The expansion on the Ranger series is almost the same as the BLACK TALON
One Dr. said he nicked his finger following the path of the bullet. Another Dr., in response, basically said doing that was stupid.
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Yep!
I think they make 3 different 147 gr loads.
Some are subsonic, some are right at transonic, and the +p loads at at like 1400 FPS, which is a hot lid especially for 147 gr in 9mm
These are 990fps
Lmao. Really. You don't believe that do you?
85k rpm / 60 = 1416 rps
Spitball 1150fps
(1416 rot / second) x ( second / 1150feet) = 1.23 rotations per foot
Surely it would change after impact, but the max assuming the above would be 2.5 rotations over 2 feet.
I agree with the guy that if the barrel is 1 in 10 twist, it won't twist more than twice in 20 inches. That is max. When the projectile impacts, it can only be LESS than max.
Not so, if velocity decreases faster than spin that model breaks. I dont think I can predict max min or anywhat about terminal ballistics. thats why I suggested the gel videos.
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True that but once she leaves the muzzle, anglular momentum is pretty much fixed. The only way to speed up spin would be to decrease diameter with mass being the same. If anything, diameter increases with an expanding bullet which would decrease rotational velocity.
As Hollywood has taught us, the doctor always removes the bullet with a pair of forceps and then drops it in a metal pan so we can hear it go "ding".
.
You know, the more I think about it.....
If velocity drops rapidly, and angular momentum is constant.....like in gel (or people), but then there is drag......
Either way, I think damage from spinning is miniscule so the blender argument is moot.
Sometimes Magic Bullets don't always work...........
This bullet entered chest cavity frontal shot on a Cougar, and was found the end of the chest cavity lengthwise. Cougar ran about 20-25 yards before having heart failure...........Of course, this bullet did not expand as you can see.
Fortunately, it was already .45 caliber.............
This bullet entered chest cavity frontal shot on a Cougar, and was found the end of the chest cavity lengthwise. Cougar ran about 20-25 yards before having heart failure...........Of course, this bullet did not expand as you can see.
Fortunately, it was already .45 caliber.............
1. They are no longer commercially available.
2. They have no qualities superior to currently available ammunition.
3. Knowing the above, people pay a premium for them.
Sounds like a collector's item to me.
As @Flashpoint stated above-
Some view them as scarce, and hence collectible.
I had an idiot cousin, he died in 2020, and everything he owned was a sacred relic touched by the hand of god, and blessed with unicorn tears under a virgin moon.
He had a box of black talons in 45, and another in 357 mag. He swore they were ultra rare.
I could not convince him otherwise.
When it came time to settle his “estate” the family turned to me, they asked if these bullets really were jack’s magic beans. I had to explain the false economics to them.
He did have a box of 30-06 Accelerator Sabot rounds that were a plastic encapsulated 556 round, that were ultra hot barrel burners and would hit like 4000 FPS. They fetched a pretty penny.
After reading that hollow points will not reliably open up until they're sonic, and fabric clogs the hollow and they perform the same as a FMJ. In the 90's I did a non-scientific ammo test using ~20 5 gal buckets filled with water. I used a G23 (40S&W) and a Ruger P90 in .45 and a bunch of different SD ammo. The Black Talon's hollow points filled with plastic, zipped through the bucket, and was stopped several inches into a railroad tie. Hydroshocks expanding were ~50/50. The velocity seemed to be the ticket. 40S&W 135g Cor-Bon was impressive, the bucket would come off the ground ~a foot with an impressive water spray. Winchester 40S&W 155g Silver tip by far out performed the others. The bucket would lift a couple feet, and ripped completely in two, held together only by the bead for the lid, perpendicular to the shot. The rounds didn't exit the bucket, and measured 0.9"+.Sometimes Magic Bullets don't always work...........
This bullet entered chest cavity frontal shot on a Cougar, and was found the end of the chest cavity lengthwise. Cougar ran about 20-25 yards before having heart failure...........Of course, this bullet did not expand as you can see.
Fortunately, it was already .45 caliber.............
I didn't know LEO had carried them.
40 S&W 155 GR. Winchester Silvertip HP
bought this box of ammo today. I had never seen a Silvertip pistol cartridge before. they were very pricey but i dont see how they couldnt perform very well. I carry Hydra Shok's 135 gr 40's right now but am thinking about loading my mag with these silvertips. can anyone let me know if they...
www.thehighroad.org
If you really want to be impressed by hydrostatic shock effects, shoot a 1 gallon jug of water at 100 yards with a 50 BMG.
The jug literally vaporizes and explodes into steam and a few small pieces of jug.
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There is no magic bullet for every situation. HP’s can fail due to clothing, Sheetrock etc clogging up the cavity. Just read an article last night where the writer shot a deer facing him with a 41 Mag HP. The hide clogged the HP and the bullet penetrated all the way through and stopped in the hind quarter. Might as well have shot with a FMJ. Should have expanded and destroyed the internals. @BatteryOaksBilly and I have done some very unscientific testing with different bullets including frangible which only worked for us on steel plates. Along with what the “real experts” preach which is PLACEMENT AND PENETRATION, this is what we have decided to carry:
38 Special. 230gr Wadcutter running around 900fps
9mm. Lehigh Defense (research them, they work) alternate loaded with a Hot FMJ.
45ACP. 230 Ball running around 1000fps.
Granted if you don’t reload, none of these are available off the shelf with the exception of the Lehigh which is available factory loaded or you can get the same bullet sold by Underwood as their Honey Badger line.
Take this info with as much or little value as you choose, I hope and pray that none of us are ever in the situation to find out if our shooting skill or ammo choice is good enough.
My biggest observation over the last 40+ years of shooting is too much importance is placed on having the latest and greatest gun and the newest magic ammo that just hit the market. I’m as guilty as any. You want to be an effective in a defense situation? Come to Battery Oaks and let Billy help you. He unselfishly spends a lot of time going through different scenarios that WILL make you more effective if the need arises. I will be the the first to admit that when I started going to BO I had already put more ammo down the range than most people will shoot in 10 lifetimes and now I realize I didn’t know squat about defense shooting. I never shot out of a car window or from a table or rolling my fat ass on the ground! I’m far from expert, but I would be way more effective and intend on getting much better.
Didnt mean to jump the thread and change the direction of the discussion, but with the world going like it is, the odds increase every day that one of us will wind up in a life or death situation. If somebody snatches open your car door or comes at you in a restaurant or an ATM machine or knocks you to the ground, it’s not going to make a rats ass if the bullet in your gun expands to twice the size. First you got to hit the target and second the bullet you shoot better penetrate to the vitals or you might as well be carrying a stick.
38 Special. 230gr Wadcutter running around 900fps
9mm. Lehigh Defense (research them, they work) alternate loaded with a Hot FMJ.
45ACP. 230 Ball running around 1000fps.
Granted if you don’t reload, none of these are available off the shelf with the exception of the Lehigh which is available factory loaded or you can get the same bullet sold by Underwood as their Honey Badger line.
Take this info with as much or little value as you choose, I hope and pray that none of us are ever in the situation to find out if our shooting skill or ammo choice is good enough.
My biggest observation over the last 40+ years of shooting is too much importance is placed on having the latest and greatest gun and the newest magic ammo that just hit the market. I’m as guilty as any. You want to be an effective in a defense situation? Come to Battery Oaks and let Billy help you. He unselfishly spends a lot of time going through different scenarios that WILL make you more effective if the need arises. I will be the the first to admit that when I started going to BO I had already put more ammo down the range than most people will shoot in 10 lifetimes and now I realize I didn’t know squat about defense shooting. I never shot out of a car window or from a table or rolling my fat ass on the ground! I’m far from expert, but I would be way more effective and intend on getting much better.
Didnt mean to jump the thread and change the direction of the discussion, but with the world going like it is, the odds increase every day that one of us will wind up in a life or death situation. If somebody snatches open your car door or comes at you in a restaurant or an ATM machine or knocks you to the ground, it’s not going to make a rats ass if the bullet in your gun expands to twice the size. First you got to hit the target and second the bullet you shoot better penetrate to the vitals or you might as well be carrying a stick.
"Why yes occifer, I did strike him with a fire stick"
Matt2014
Well-Known Member
I have yet to even see any other boxes of magnum rifle cartridges like man anywhere, even online. I agree it’s definitely a niche
