Captured spring systems

dbracin

dbracin

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What options are currently available for a captured spring system for a 9mm? Cost is important, but "results" is the bottom line. I want smoother operation with less barrel rise and less noise as a bonus.
I know JP will be the one all others are judged by and I am prepared to buy that one.

This will be used in a PCC AR, QC10 GSF lower, mil spec buffer tube, 16" Ballistic Advantage barrel with a JP 9mm bolt.
 
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9mm what? What type of weapon are you asking about?
All need to know information for a correct answer.
Just saying......
 
We are in the pistol caliber CARBINE sub, so I'd guess AR based system. What other system uses a caputre spring?
 
Dale, I remember seeing a new captured spring tune-able buffer offering on the PCC universe facebook page.
Can't recall the specifics on it.
May be worth googling.
I will add you to the page if your not already.

I have the JP and am very happy with it.
Since you already have the JP bolt, it's only natural!
 
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Another solution looking for a problem to solve...
 
dbracin said:
Thank you for your insightful contribution.
Click to expand...

Brevity is the soul of wit. - Billy Shakespeare

Fair enough. Here's the long version...

I've been shooting PCC matches for a while now. I shoot an SBR'd Anderson lower with a PSA drop in mag block, Kaw Valley bolt, Colt magazines, a standard 9mm buffer and a Wolf xtra power spring. About as vanilla a setup as you can get.

I have had a grand total of 1 failure of any type in 6-7 matches. Compared to the typical scene with PCC setups where jams, fail to feed, etc are so common it's ridiculous.

Invariably, the folks having the most trouble are the tinkerers. The guys with the super high speed/low drag setups with all of the latest and greatest "improvements".

So, my comment about a solution looking for a problem - while short and snarky - is born from experience with PCCs in a competition environment.
 
I would like to try one some time. The spring is the loudest part to the trigger man when shooting subs in my 9mm and 300BLK SBRs.
 
Tim said:
Brevity is the soul of wit. - Billy Shakespeare

Fair enough. Here's the long version...

I've been shooting PCC matches for a while now. I shoot an SBR'd Anderson lower with a PSA drop in mag block, Kaw Valley bolt, Colt magazines, a standard 9mm buffer and a Wolf xtra power spring. About as vanilla a setup as you can get.

I have had a grand total of 1 failure of any type in 6-7 matches. Compared to the typical scene with PCC setups where jams, fail to feed, etc are so common it's ridiculous.

Invariably, the folks having the most trouble are the tinkerers. The guys with the super high speed/low drag setups with all of the latest and greatest "improvements".

So, my comment about a solution looking for a problem - while short and snarky - is born from experience with PCCs in a competition environment.
Click to expand...

Ok, there was a lot more information there for me to wrap my head around. Thanks.

I will be the first to admit that I am a tinkerer. While I have a pretty generic setup as well (for now) and I have it working reliably, I will inevitably feel like I must tackle the noticeable problem of large reciprocating mass of the typical 9mm setup.
 
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I always had great results with a Wolf Xtra Power Spring and Slash heavy buffer. Smooth shooting and the heavy buffer kept the action closed long enough to keep the port noise down. I agree with Tim abiut the PCC crowd getting too gadgety.

Here's an old video I found which gives you an idea of the muzzle rise and sound.



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
Tim, I just picked up a PSA mag block yesterday. I think PSA has gotten away from that in favor of dedicated 9mm lowers, especially the Glock pattern. I couldn't even find the mag bock on PSA's website but I stopped at their Mount Pleasant store as I was in those parts and they had two in the store.

Ideally I would like to be able to use one lower for rifle and pistol cartridges but I'm not sure how feasible that is. Any suggestions appreciated.
 
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Crunchy Frog said:
Tim, I just picked up a PSA mag block yesterday. I think PSA has gotten away from that in favor of dedicated 9mm lowers, especially the Block pattern. I couldn't even find the mag bock on PSA's website but I stopped at their Mount Pleasant store as I was in those parts and they had two in the store.

Ideally I would like to be able to use one lower for rifle and pistol cartridges but I'm not sure how feasible that is. Any suggestions appreciated.
Click to expand...

If you want to quickly/easily swap between rifle and pistol calibers, you need the Hahn Precision block that loads in from the bottom of the magwell. The PSA style block drops in from the top and requires removal of the mag catch (roll pin typically) to swap out.

http://shop.hahn-precision.com/Bottom-9mm-Adapter-A9CPRB0402.htm

If you decide you want the Hahn, I'd be interested in your PSA block.
 
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Mine is a forged lower with a roll pin to retain the bolt stop (isnt that the issue with a top install block?). Wish now I'd bought a billet lower with a screw. I did read about drilling and tapping the upper to accept a screw. Was going to ask my gunsmith about that.
 
Hahn makes a drop in top load block as well, however it doesn't offer last round bolt hold open.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
Some of the reviews on the Kak website say that it installs from the top but the description says it installs from underneath. Is the Hahn worth the freight over the Kak?
 
I believe Hahn has three versions. Top, bottom and dedicated.

I opted for dedicated, and it's been flawless. LRBHO works every time. That being said, I have zero experience with any other version or brand.
 
Crunchy Frog said:
Some of the reviews on the Kak website say that it installs from the top but the description says it installs from underneath. Is the Hahn worth the freight over the Kak?
Click to expand...

I saw the same thing and emailed them to clarify.

I have an AR pistol lower that I'd like to easily convert from 300BLK to 9mm on the fly.
 
BigWaylon said:
I believe Hahn has three versions. Top, bottom and dedicated.

I opted for dedicated, and it's been flawless. LRBHO works every time. That being said, I have zero experience with any other version or brand.
Click to expand...
I used a Bottom Mount for LRBHO and it worked flawless. Easy in and easy out for caliber changes


Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
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Tim said:
Brevity is the soul of wit. - Billy Shakespeare

Fair enough. Here's the long version...

I've been shooting PCC matches for a while now. I shoot an SBR'd Anderson lower with a PSA drop in mag block, Kaw Valley bolt, Colt magazines, a standard 9mm buffer and a Wolf xtra power spring. About as vanilla a setup as you can get.

I have had a grand total of 1 failure of any type in 6-7 matches. Compared to the typical scene with PCC setups where jams, fail to feed, etc are so common it's ridiculous.

Invariably, the folks having the most trouble are the tinkerers. The guys with the super high speed/low drag setups with all of the latest and greatest "improvements".

So, my comment about a solution looking for a problem - while short and snarky - is born from experience with PCCs in a competition environment.
Click to expand...

I've seen a couple cases where people were "tinkering" because the setup you are saying works great actually didn't work, which is why they needed to start tinkering. They all started with heavy 9mm buffers and heavy springs. They failed often. I believe Slacker went that route years ago!

But in most I have seen they were Grock style lowers.

I wonder if it's just more reliable with that system in an AR lower with mag block compared to an dedicated Glock lower?

Another post you made earlier had me thinking about a mag block. Sure would be nice to use my SBR lower and not have to build a new one!
Just add an upper. Gonna investigate this further. Was hung up on using Glock mags but the more I think about it the more I realize it is really all that important. Only have a 42 and a 19 and don't even own 33 rounders for them.
 
NKD said:
I wonder if it's just more reliable with that system in an AR lower with mag block compared to an dedicated Glock lower?
Click to expand...

I suspect it has more to do with the Colt system having a better feed ramp - and therefore more forgiving cycling - than the Glock style.
 
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Crunchy Frog said:
Some of the reviews on the Kak website say that it installs from the top but the description says it installs from underneath. Is the Hahn worth the freight over the Kak?
Click to expand...

I received email back from KAK's President. The magblock is indeed bottom loading. They changed the design a while back from top loading.
 
Tim said:
I've been shooting PCC matches for a while now. I shoot an SBR'd Anderson lower with a PSA drop in mag block, Kaw Valley bolt, Colt magazines, a standard 9mm buffer and a Wolf xtra power spring. About as vanilla a setup as you can get.

I have had a grand total of 1 failure of any type in 6-7 matches. Compared to the typical scene with PCC setups where jams, fail to feed, etc are so common it's ridiculous.

Invariably, the folks having the most trouble are the tinkerers. The guys with the super high speed/low drag setups with all of the latest and greatest "improvements".
Click to expand...

I have run both captured and traditional, just plinking. No question that captured is quieter, I'm told by reliable folks that are far better than me that it is also faster. Both setups required tuning of springs/buffer and ammo to achieve optimal performance, otherwise they both just run. I'm running a qc10 glock lower, so making the last round bolt hold open work is the most difficult balance in both cases.

All that said, you want to borrow the JP system for a couple weeks so you can decide for yourself rather than theorizing? It won't work perfectly for your gun because it's setup for mine, but it should run well enough that you can decide if you'd want to get one yourself.

PM if you want to give it a go, just need to make sure that your bolt can accommodate it and that you're willing to temporarily remove the buffer capture pin from your upper cause it sucks to get the JP system out unless you do.

Jim
 
JimB said:
I have run both captured and traditional, just plinking. No question that captured is quieter, I'm told by reliable folks that are far better than me that it is also faster. Both setups required tuning of springs/buffer and ammo to achieve optimal performance, otherwise they both just run. I'm running a qc10 glock lower, so making the last round bolt hold open work is the most difficult balance in both cases.

All that said, you want to borrow the JP system for a couple weeks so you can decide for yourself rather than theorizing? It won't work perfectly for your gun because it's setup for mine, but it should run well enough that you can decide if you'd want to get one yourself.

PM if you want to give it a go, just need to make sure that your bolt can accommodate it and that you're willing to temporarily remove the buffer capture pin from your upper cause it sucks to get the JP system out unless you do.

Jim
Click to expand...

Haha! Jims JP SCS setup is pretty slutty.
It's been passed around some!!
Very generous offer Jim.
Is it still setup the same as when I had it?
 
Slacker said:
Haha! Jims JP SCS setup is pretty slutty.
It's been passed around some!!
Very generous offer Jim.
Is it still setup the same as when I had it?
Click to expand...

Let's say that it is free spirited.

I think it's back to factory config right now, will check when I pull it out. It's time to clean that gun anyway so timing is good.
 
Wahoo95 said:
I always had great results with a Wolf Xtra Power Spring and Slash heavy buffer. Smooth shooting and the heavy buffer kept the action closed long enough to keep the port noise down. I agree with Tim abiut the PCC crowd getting too gadgety.

Here's an old video I found which gives you an idea of the muzzle rise and sound.
Click to expand...

Quoted so I can find this info later when Im not at work lol
 
I returned the top-loading PSA magblock so there should be three now in the Greenville store if anybody wants one.

Ordered the bottom-loading Hahn direct from the manufacturer. Shipped and received promptly. There is a little roller on the front with an allen screw behind it. I had to back the screw out a little to insert the magblock. After I did, I simply slid the block into my lower's magazine well-no more complicated than inserting a magazine. The magazine catch clicked into place and I used the (supplied) long allen wrench to retighten the setscrew, and DONE. The magazine release now works to hold and to release the (Colt pattern) 9mm magazines. When I want to change my lower to accept a 5.56 or .300 Blackout upper, it will take me about ten seconds to convert it back.

This is exactly what I wanted. Well worth the price for my purposes. Thank you, Tim and all the other folks who contributed.

By-the-by, I removed the buffer detent from my lower because I have a JP Enterprises Silent Captured Spring and the detent makes getting the unit in and out difficult. JP's 9mm captured spring unit is not compatible with the PSA bolt. I suspect the Armaspec may have the same issue but my message to the manufacturer has gone unanswered.

I got a spring and a PSA 9mm buffer. It works fine without a detent, I just have to be careful when I open the receiver.
 
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