CMP/EIC questions (Lost in the sauce)

[Adkinsaa]

Plenty of questions here for the group. Specifically looking for CMP/EIC related answers at the moment, but once I'm slightly less ashamed of my marksmanship abilities, IDPA/all the other acronyms may be on the table. I'm about as new as it gets when it comes to any kind of competitive shooting. Last week I participated in a Combat Pistol and Rifle Marksmanship match held at Camp Butner for the NC National Guard. I used a unit issued M4 and M17 for the competition and we fired the zero and practice for both pistol and rifle as well as the EIC table (PI2000M and PI2210, RI3000M and RI3210). That is the extent of my competitive experience. Now for the questions.

I have looked at the CMP website/rulebook (Personally, I don't think it's very beginner friendly) and I'm making some assumptions here, but I'm assuming the events I participated in are considered the Special M9 (M17) & M16 (M4) EIC Match. Since I competed in one EIC match for each (PI2210 & RI 3210) does that mean I'm only allowed to compete in three events for the remainder of the year so that I don't go over the threshold of five?

Are all EIC matches for a given category always the same? If I fired RI3210 for this past match, what are the chances I would fire that exact same table in a different match.

Are there ever events that provide either firearms, ammo or both?

For something like the Eastern CMP games, how many competitors would normally participate in an event?

Is there a way to find out average scores for events? Not like the National Matches or anything, but I guess more of a goal to aim for to atleast be somewhat competitive.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[WeepingAngel]

Plenty of questions here for the group. Specifically looking for CMP/EIC related answers at the moment, but once I'm slightly less ashamed of my marksmanship abilities, IDPA/all the other acronyms may be on the table. I'm about as new as it gets when it comes to any kind of competitive shooting. Last week I participated in a Combat Pistol and Rifle Marksmanship match held at Camp Butner for the NC National Guard. I used a unit issued M4 and M17 for the competition and we fired the zero and practice for both pistol and rifle as well as the EIC table (PI2000M and PI2210, RI3000M and RI3210). That is the extent of my competitive experience. Now for the questions.

I have looked at the CMP website/rulebook (Personally, I don't think it's very beginner friendly) and I'm making some assumptions here, but I'm assuming the events I participated in are considered the Special M9 (M17) & M16 (M4) EIC Match. Since I competed in one EIC match for each (PI2210 & RI 3210) does that mean I'm only allowed to compete in three events for the remainder of the year so that I don't go over the threshold of five?

Are all EIC matches for a given category always the same? If I fired RI3210 for this past match, what are the chances I would fire that exact same table in a different match.

Are there ever events that provide either firearms, ammo or both?

For something like the Eastern CMP games, how many competitors would normally participate in an event?

Is there a way to find out average scores for events? Not like the National Matches or anything, but I guess more of a goal to aim for to atleast be somewhat competitive.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

I've not pursued EIC points, but I shoot at Camp Perry each summer so I'll address what I know of the bolded questions. (You're spot on that the rulebook(s) requires quite a bit of familiarity in order to know where to look for certain info, and is a bit ambiguous as to whether a given event is governed under a particular set of rules).

Yes, the USAMU Small Arms Firing Schools (SAFS) are what you're looking for. I don't know if they show up at Eastern Games (I think they do, but I'm more familiar with the National Match schedule where they are guaranteed), but they're a 2 day event with equipment and ammo provided. I don't recall the cost off the top of my head, but it effectively covers the cost of the ammo you shoot.

Scores are publicly available via the CMP Competition Tracker. You can also see (to somewhat answer the non-bolded question re attendance numbers) line-by-line scores and who shot them. The system is a bit unwieldy from a tech standpoing, but it is there and publicly available. Link: https://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.php

E.g. this link should take you to the 2024 Eastern Games: https://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.php?do=match&task=edit&match=26065
There is a results tab at the bottom that should populate for each event.
This one should show results (if you go to the results tab) for all events of the 2023 National Matches: https://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.php?do=match&task=edit&match=24465

 

[Adkinsaa]

@WeepingAngel
Thanks for the info! Getting my foot in the door by even knowing enough information to ask adequate questions has been a challenge. It's one of the "you don't know what you don't know" kind of situations.

What is the difference between a "National Match" and any other match, like the CMP games? I guess I had always thought you basically had to somehow earn your way up to even compete in a National Match.

And sorry, I actually didn't even notice I had bolded those questions. My phone is doing some weird things.lol

 

[WeepingAngel]

@WeepingAngel
Thanks for the info! Getting my foot in the door by even knowing enough information to ask adequate questions has been a challenge. It's one of the "you don't know what you don't know" kind of situations.

What is the difference between a "National Match" and any other match, like the CMP games? I guess I had always thought you basically had to somehow earn your way up to even compete in a National Match.

And sorry, I actually didn't even notice I had bolded those questions. My phone is doing some weird things.lol

The National Matches are a specific set of competitions held from early July to early August at Camp Perry, Ohio. Instead of the week for a Games competition, it's a month long with an entire week for pistol, another week for service rifle, etc. They are open entry (e.g. you don't have to quality at a Games match) - my only caveat is that you'll want to have your self and your equipment dialed in before showing up (e.g. you should know how much elevation to dial for each distance, and know it well). Personally, I would shoot at Butner before dropping the money to travel to Ohio. The matches are cool, and draw top competitors... but I could say the same for the Eastern Games.

(I bolded the questions myself as they were the ones I intended to address; not an issue with your phone)

If you head over here: http://www.usrifleteams.com/, it's a fairly serious forum that's dedicated to CMP events. Lots of people on there who have earned the Distinguished Rifle badge and can tell you what will (and what won't) help to get there. I haven't been on there in a few years, but it's a great resource for the questions you're asking.

I just took a look at the Eastern Games schedule and I don't see SAFS on there. I'd recommend checking out Project Appleseed*; the national HQ/home range is in Ramseur, NC. (Ideally, I'd put someone interested in CMP/EIC on a track of Appleseed->SAFS->CMP events). It's not dedicated CMP instruction, but they speak the same language and use the same techniques.

While I'm in a rambling mood - if you do head the Appleseed route, check out this thread, particularly what @mostly22lately had to say.

*full disclosure, I've been teaching with them since 2010.


Also rambling (and because you asked), if you can generally keep it in the 8-ring on any of these targets at their given distance, you won't embarass yourself. If you're frequently shooting 5's, 6's, and 7's you've got some work to do... that's just my opinion (based on comments from the cadre at the Advanced M16 SAFS).