Colion Noir on Real Time... new 2A narrative for the left?

[Exile_D]

So it seemed to go about as good as could be expected. Definitely wouldn't call it a resounding success, but what can you expect with a piece of trash like Maher.

However, I was surprised and concerned with the quote he threw in at the 10:43 mark regarding the 2A actually being written to control the slave population and having nothing to do with protection from tyrants/tyrannical governments. I looked up the guy he quoted and he is a crackpot "intellectual" that is unfortunately credible to many people, but Maher trotted it out as fact and Noir did nothing to refute it. In fact, he seemed to agree with it by way of his response.

Link goes to Noir's channel, not Maher or HBO.



Do people actually believe that about the 2A? Is it a common belief on the left and/or critics of the 2A? Is there any validity to the claim?
I honestly never heard this before tonight.

 

[JimP42]

Well, no. Complete hogwash. There was plenty written about the 2nd in the Federalist papers and other places and that was never mentioned at all that I am aware of.

The point was that a) we had “the people” instead of a standing army, and b) the politicians better never get too big for their britches.

The truth of course is that most of the early gun control in this country (NC pistol permits for example) was about exactly that. It didn’t really shift until Prohibition gave rise to serious organized crime.

 

[Otis]

Unfortunately the trend is to rewrite history to make everything about slavery. Obviously the American revolution had nothing to do with slavery. The resulting constitution that recognized personal arms being necessary to protect our newly won freedom from further tyranny had nothing to do with slavery. The war of 1812 virtually prophesized by the 2nd amendment had nothing to do with slavery. Taking guns from white cowboys in Western cattle towns had nothing to do with slavery. The nfa had nothing to do with slaves as they were rarely if ever involved in prohibition era organized crime. Some who remember history can make a great case that the civil war was not entirely about slavery...but I digress.

So I seriously doubt the nc pistol permit law was brought about simply to control slaves any more than the prison system was set up to imprison black people (as many other whack job intellectual s claim). Sometimes I think white guilt is an even bigger disease than obesity.

 

[SPM]

Unfortunately the trend is to rewrite history to make everything about slavery. Obviously the American revolution had nothing to do with slavery. The resulting constitution that recognized personal arms being necessary to protect our newly won freedom from further tyranny had nothing to do with slavery. The war of 1812 virtually prophesized by the 2nd amendment had nothing to do with slavery. Taking guns from white cowboys in Western cattle towns had nothing to do with slavery. The nfa had nothing to do with slaves as they were rarely if ever involved in prohibition era organized crime. Some who remember history can make a great case that the civil war was not entirely about slavery...but I digress.

Be careful with regards to saying the Constitution had nothing to do with slavery. It most certainly did in the text itself, and everyone knew it. In the ratifying conventions in the North, the fact that it seemingly condoned and guaranteed the practice drew the scorn of the early abolitionist movement.

In the ratifying conventions in the South, the same text was excoriated for not being a solid enough guarantee of slavery’s continued survival.

Everyone knows the 3/5ths Compromise of Article 1, Section 2(though most don’t understand it was designed to limit political power of the South, not say blacks are only 3/5ths the person of whites),

Additionally, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1 prohibits Federal interference in the slave trade for a period of 20 years:

“The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.“

In fact, Article V expressely forbids the above Clause from being changed by Amendment for 20 years:

“Provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no State, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.”

Even the Confederacy insisted that it’s split with the Union was in defense of the Union’s Constitution. So while the Second Amendment wasn’t written to keep slaves enslaved, the Constitution was, in a limited fashion.

 

[JBoyette]

Very good interview. He did well.

I fould it interesting that Bill's use of labeling people is so strict and ridged.

 

[Stick]

I fould it interesting that Bill's use of labeling people is so strict and ridged.

No surprise. Folks love to pigeon hole other people. That is an intellectually lazy way to keep from having to see everyone as an individual, but lets them classify entire groups of people a somehow deplorable without knowing anything about the individuals.

 

[VA_GENTLEMAN]

I was watching when he trotted that argument out like it was fact.

Noir took the tact of saying, well here I am no, a black man in America using that Amendment so that it does not happen again. Actually, I think that shut Mayer from digressing down that path of black man is crazy Uncle Tom sellout.

 

[Stick]

I was watching when he trotted that argument out like it was fact.

Noir took the tact of saying, well here I am no, a black man in America using that Amendment so that it does not happen again. Actually, I think that shut Mayer from digressing down that path of black man is crazy Uncle Tom sellout.

I thought that was Maher's set up question. He had it all written down and waited until the very end of the interview so he could finish by creating the impression that Noir is a sellout black man and without actually saying so and without Noir having time to counter it. Fortunately Noir had already pretty much countered the argument with his responses and composure during the rest of his interview.

 

[BigWaylon]

I do wish Colion had finished the thought about "loopholes" at gun shows, to say NICS checks happen. They started to go there and then stopped.

While it was a lot of "I support the 2nd, but..." from Bill, it was way less argumentative than I expected.

I also wish they could've continued the teacher discussion. It's not a matter of forcibly arming all the teachers including those that have no interest in it...it's more about allowing those that way to be wolves instead of sheep to be armed.

 

[Otis]

Be careful with regards to saying the Constitution had nothing to do with slavery. It most certainly did in the text itself, and everyone knew it. In the ratifying conventions in the North, the fact that it seemingly condoned and guaranteed the practice drew the scorn of the early abolitionist movement.

In the ratifying conventions in the South, the same text was excoriated for not being a solid enough guarantee of slavery’s continued survival.

Everyone knows the 3/5ths Compromise of Article 1, Section 2(though most don’t understand it was designed to limit political power of the South, not say blacks are only 3/5ths the person of whites),

Additionally, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1 prohibits Federal interference in the slave trade for a period of 20 years:

“The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.“

In fact, Article V expressely forbids the above Clause from being changed by Amendment for 20 years:

“Provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no State, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.”

Even the Confederacy insisted that it’s split with the Union was in defense of the Union’s Constitution. So while the Second Amendment wasn’t written to keep slaves enslaved, the Constitution was, in a limited fashion.

I was referring specifically to the "second amendment to the" constitution as elaborated further in that sentence but didn't notice I had backspaced over those words when undoing the autocorrect on my phone. I am quite aware concessions were made in the Constitution over slavery just like there were specific gun laws directed at slaves or freed slaves...but not "most" by any means.

 

[bkv]

I also wish they could've continued the teacher discussion. It's not a matter of forcibly arming all the teachers including those that have no interest in it...it's more about allowing those that way to be wolves instead of sheep to be armed.

I agree. Bill got his chance to crack a joke about the NRA on this subject but, unfortunately, Noir didn't get his opportunity to respond.

 

[HMP]

Instead of starting a new thread, I wanted to post up some Noir vids here.
I like this dude a lot