Cop shoots woman through window (no, not the old one, the new one)

My wife and I were talking about this tonight. It seems that a lot of cops deal with people with a really skeptical attitude. I get that you're dealing with the south end of a north bound society a lot. But you also have to try and establish what kind of interaction you are in and tailor your attitude accordingly. Yes, you need to be able to go 0-100 in a flash if your life depends on it. But if you go into a situation at 100 that is really a 0 someone is very likely to get hurt or killed. I think that's part of what happened here. They guy completely misread the situation and acted in a manner that was not fit for this situation. And the homeowner is dead because of that. Poor attitude, poor tactics, poor response.

On an only minor related note, when I dealt with the PD about my accident I could tell that the Supervisor did not believe anything I was saying about what happened or how serious it could have been. Until I produced a video of what happened. Her entire demeanor towards me changed. Those preconceived notions can cause problems.
 
Looks like Murder was the case that they gave him. Hope the facts are represented and the accused faces his judgement in this world and the next.

PS. This is why you'll never get to my windows without something eating your ass alive, being it a dog or an AK. Everyone needs to invest in camera systems for their dwelling, a gate, a moat, and an intercom system.

Curtilege means GTFO unless you announce AND have reason to be there.
 
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Now-a-days, while the police apologist's go on & on about how their training is better than it ever has been, the standard method has become to storm the situation screaming and yelling confusing orders while brandishing hardware with the hammer pulled back and a shaky finger on the trigger.
Wtf? This is considered 'better training'? Swarming in screaming like a bunch of Apache's ramping everything up to eleven on a scale of ten?

How did it come to this? The Police own this crap. They got sold on the citizenry being the enemy and needing to adopt militaristic methods and attitudes.
There are many lawmen who, although get trained in these methods, realize that most of the time it's completely unnecessary and act accordingly.
And God love em for it.

Whats it gonna take to get back to keep everything and everybody calm?
The police and the citizens are just the pawns in this game. The kings and queens in the administrations that insist on using these horrendous methods are the ones who need to be taken to the courthouse square and hung till dead.
I agree with your post and I think your point is extremely important.

Just one other thing does occur to me, though, and that is that a lot of us non-LEO's have maybe bought into similar attitudes and methods. Some of us (not me, for what it's worth) take that to the extreme of seeing cops as the enemy. But forget about our attitudes towards cops. Our attitudes towards our fellow non-LEO's can sometimes drift pretty far into an area that we might think of as "readiness" or "awareness" or whatever, but that might in fact be a bit closer to flat out fear.
 
I don't see an easy fix to this whole situation. For the last few years, the police have been getting more and more militarized, and the citizens are starting to fear police interactions more than before.

I personally think that police training should emphasize de-escalation and critical thinking. We need peace officers, not war fighters. Train them to be problem solvers first. I feel like almost all of these officer shootings could have been prevented if the officer in question had just thought about the situation, and asked questions instead of going for the gun the moment the situation looked scary.

Police need to view their weapons not as a "tool of the trade" but as a last resort that's put to use when nonviolent methods of maintaining the peace have failed.

Some officers just aren't cut out to be cops. Its a high stress job. An officer needs to be able to keep their cool, and remain both calm and confident in high stress situations. They need to be able to cope with people from all walks of life. It really helps if they're not afraid of dogs.

I'm reminded of a fire scene years ago I responded to. The fire was set as part of a domestic situation, so police responded with the FD. I recall one officer in particular, got jumpy and loosened his handgun in his holster as he approached the fence. There was a dog in the yard, and I remember him saying "if that dog comes near me, I'm shooting it." Luckily for him, firemen seem to get along well with dogs.
 
Luckily for him, firemen seem to get along well with dogs.

Pretty much.

In almost 20 years, I've run across everything on the job from Lhasas to AmStaffs...I've only ran across ONE dog that wasn't having any part of an ear-scratchin or belly rub. It was a Chow and it had a serious weed up its ass. Wasn't the first dog that ever barked, growled, snarled or "smiled" at me, but it's the only one I've ever crossed paths with that, imo, couldn't be approached.
 
This is a multi-faceted problem, and there is plenty of blame to go around.

Police are often sold this idea that EVERYONE hates them and EVERYONE is out to get them. - It's not true.
Minorities are often sold the idea that EVERY COP hates them and EVERY COP is out to get them. - Also not true.

Those are two very dangerous ideologies to go head on together.

And it doesn't help when our own personal distrust of LE due to Constitutional issues gets in the way of us at least acting cordial to LE. Saying, "I don't mean any disrespect, Officer, but I'd rather just get going

It's pretty obvious why police have been militarized, and again, that's a multi-faceted issue. I personally don't want to see LE stuck in a gunfight with a 38spl against cartels in a border town...I also don't want them rolling down the street in an MRAP, but IDK if I can blame them - The justice system hasn't been fixed, the immigration system hasn't been fixed; doesn't sound like we should be blaming the cops here. I don't like the response, but if you were being told, "hey you're going to respond to cartels and active shooters" you'd probably want to be prepared too...Now, the argument, IMO, is that the cops should not have access to anything the American public does not, so there's that.

So with the pendulum swinging, you either have extreme situations like this story...or cops who are totally useless and hamstrung like up in NYC or LA with people dumping water on their head and having garbage thrown at and pathetically just walking away.

I am of the belief that 99% of the bullshit wouldn't be happening if the immigration system was fixed. I wholeheartedly believe that has been the biggest detriment. The immigrant gangs and cartels that have been funneled into our cities have made the cops jumpy as hell.
 
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Two cars in driveway, lights on. That was simply a "knock and ask if everything is ok" call. Stand to the left or right of the doorway if you suspect something wierd and observe.

That dude didnt have time to process if the person was white, black, pink, or purple before he pulled the trigger.
 
I don't see an easy fix to this whole situation. For the last few years, the police have been getting more and more militarized, and the citizens are starting to fear police interactions more than before.

I personally think that police training should emphasize de-escalation and critical thinking. We need peace officers, not war fighters. Train them to be problem solvers first. I feel like almost all of these officer shootings could have been prevented if the officer in question had just thought about the situation, and asked questions instead of going for the gun the moment the situation looked scary.

Police need to view their weapons not as a "tool of the trade" but as a last resort that's put to use when nonviolent methods of maintaining the peace have failed.

Some officers just aren't cut out to be cops. Its a high stress job. An officer needs to be able to keep their cool, and remain both calm and confident in high stress situations. They need to be able to cope with people from all walks of life. It really helps if they're not afraid of dogs.

I'm reminded of a fire scene years ago I responded to. The fire was set as part of a domestic situation, so police responded with the FD. I recall one officer in particular, got jumpy and loosened his handgun in his holster as he approached the fence. There was a dog in the yard, and I remember him saying "if that dog comes near me, I'm shooting it." Luckily for him, firemen seem to get along well with dogs.

Right before we went into Iraq our unit did CQD with Duane Dieter (look him up). The training was some of the best I have even had, anywhere. It wasn't zero to 100 in a second, it was applying the right level of acceptable response to the right situation. It was everything cops need, all the time. We 'let' more bad people live because they de-escalated when we forced them to, and we de-escalated when they did. You dial it up, you dial it down. In other words, you don't kill a housefly with a sledge hammer.
 
Most departments do not have the funding for the training beyond the basics.
 
Right before we went into Iraq our unit did CQD with Duane Dieter (look him up). The training was some of the best I have even had, anywhere. It wasn't zero to 100 in a second, it was applying the right level of acceptable response to the right situation. It was everything cops need, all the time. We 'let' more bad people live because they de-escalated when we forced them to, and we de-escalated when they did. You dial it up, you dial it down. In other words, you don't kill a housefly with a sledge hammer.

Power struggle. If you don't give someone an out, it will get violent. It's the only real solution. Until the one's with the power to restrain, hurt, or kill you realize that and give the folks they are dealing with a way out that is exactly the direction it is heading. When things start down that path, most folks will seek a way out. If they are not given a way out of violence, their way out is through you.

But in this situation there was not even enough time to establish a power struggle and she was certainly never given any real chance to do anything other than get shot.
 
Power struggle. If you don't give someone an out, it will get violent. It's the only real solution. Until the one's with the power to restrain, hurt, or kill you realize that and give the folks they are dealing with a way out that is exactly the direction it is heading. When things start down that path, most folks will seek a way out. If they are not given a way out of violence, their way out is through you.

But in this situation there was not even enough time to establish a power struggle and she was certainly never given any real chance to do anything other than get shot.

Well, yes and no. You don't have to give anyone an 'out.' You do have to show them that the alternative of non-compliance is worse (and maybe that's what you mean and I misunderstood. I do that sometimes). Proportional response is sorely lacking in LE curriculum; when/if they get it, they don't consistently train for it. Say what you will about the highway patrol (I have my own opinions about the King's Revenue Service), they do train like this, a lot.
 
Power struggle. If you don't give someone an out, it will get violent. It's the only real solution. Until the one's with the power to restrain, hurt, or kill you realize that and give the folks they are dealing with a way out that is exactly the direction it is heading. When things start down that path, most folks will seek a way out. If they are not given a way out of violence, their way out is through you.

But in this situation there was not even enough time to establish a power struggle and she was certainly never given any real chance to do anything other than get shot.

Well, yes and no. You don't have to give anyone an 'out.' You do have to show them that the alternative of non-compliance is worse (and maybe that's what you mean and I misunderstood. I do that sometimes). Proportional response is sorely lacking in LE curriculum; when/if they get it, they don't consistently train for it. Say what you will about the highway patrol (I have my own opinions about the King's Revenue Service), they do train like this, a lot.

I apologize for going off topic but these two comments made me think of this story: https://myfox8.com/2019/10/15/man-killed-after-standoff-on-braddock-street-in-high-point-identified/

HIGH POINT, N.C. -- The Guilford County Sheriff's Office has released the identity of the man killed following a standoff in High Point.

Around 8:30 a.m. Monday, a deputy came to 4014 Braddock Road for a padlocking of the home pursuant to a civil writ of possession, Capt. Brian Hall said.

A man in the home shoved the deputy and went back inside, barricading himself.
 
Pretty much.

In almost 20 years, I've run across everything on the job from Lhasas to AmStaffs...I've only ran across ONE dog that wasn't having any part of an ear-scratchin or belly rub. It was a Chow and it had a serious weed up its ass. Wasn't the first dog that ever barked, growled, snarled or "smiled" at me, but it's the only one I've ever crossed paths with that, imo, couldn't be approached.
I've probably OC'd thirty dogs on the job, Chows make up 99.9 percent of them. Chows are territorial to the max; if you're in their zone and you aren't family, it's on. No amount of talking or non-threatening body language or tone will work.
See, cop-haters... we don't shoot them all just for kicks.

And to the same cop-haters, (back on thread now) please remember this case when you claim "blue covers up for blue" in your next blind rage/ rant. Cops want the bad cops put away even more than you do. We're not covering up crap for them. I love everybody on this forum, but some of you guys need to relax and breathe... I won't be answering any impolite comments directed towards this, so don't bother flaming me.

And, I totally agree with the de-escalation comments. A good cop learns from older good cops and supervisors, and this is commonly learned from answering really bad service calls. Some guys can fight on every call they take, and this is noticed and they are talked to a lot, then ostracized over time. Why? Because nobody wants to have to come help them fight a houseful of folks every night.
I can't speak for the really small PDs and SO's, but in any medium sized PD and up, you learn de-escalation thru practice and training. Because that's how you stay alive, serve your beat population, and keep your job. Nobody believes this "warzone" talk, at least no officers with over two years on the job, so forget that nonsense. That's TV and rookie talk there, or maybe Barney trying to "defy the mafia".
 
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I've probably OC'd thirty dogs on the job, Chows make up 99.9 percent of them. Chows are territorial to the max; if you're in their zone and you aren't family, it's on.
If I am not mistaken, Chows are consistently the number one on the dangerous dog breeds.
 
If I am not mistaken, Chows are consistently the number one on the dangerous dog breeds.
That, sir, would definitely not surprise me at all !!! They're great yard and house dogs, but you're either "us" or "them" once you enter the yard. They don't hesitate at all.
 
Well, yes and no. You don't have to give anyone an 'out.' You do have to show them that the alternative of non-compliance is worse (and maybe that's what you mean and I misunderstood. I do that sometimes). Proportional response is sorely lacking in LE curriculum; when/if they get it, they don't consistently train for it. Say what you will about the highway patrol (I have my own opinions about the King's Revenue Service), they do train like this, a lot.
Real training would obviously be great, but it seems to me that even something as simple as reading and thinking about the book Verbal Judo could really help officers with this kind of thing.
 
I loved my 3 chows I used to have. Age took 2 of them and lady in neighborhood in Ky poisoned the 3rd (several other dogs too). Very loyal dogs.

CD
 
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I've probably OC'd thirty dogs on the job, Chows make up 99.9 percent of them. Chows are territorial to the max; if you're in their zone and you aren't family, it's on. No amount of talking or non-threatening body language or tone will work.
See, cop-haters... we don't shoot them all just for kicks.

And to the same cop-haters, (back on thread now) please remember this case when you claim "blue covers up for blue" in your next blind rage/ rant. Cops want the bad cops put away even more than you do. We're not covering up crap for them. I love everybody on this forum, but some of you guys need to relax and breathe... I won't be answering any impolite comments directed towards this, so don't bother flaming me.

And, I totally agree with the de-escalation comments. A good cop learns from older good cops and supervisors, and this is commonly learned from answering really bad service calls. Some guys can fight on every call they take, and this is noticed and they are talked to a lot, then ostracized over time. Why? Because nobody wants to have to come help them fight a houseful of folks every night.
I can't speak for the really small PDs and SO's, but in any medium sized PD and up, you learn de-escalation thru practice and training. Because that's how you stay alive, serve your beat population, and keep your job. Nobody believes this "warzone" talk, at least no officers with over two years on the job, so forget that nonsense. That's TV and rookie talk there, or maybe Barney trying to "defy the mafia".

What does OC'ed stand for?
 
Saw something on the facepages yesterday...

A soldier in Afghanistan on a convoy takes fire from a school...wonders "Maybe I shouldn't shoot at the bad guys on the other side, there could be kids or innocents in the building..."
A bomber pilot flying over gets the call of a convoy taking fire ...calls in for clearance to release payload to make sure innocents aren't in the building or waits for insurgents to run.
Police in the US..."ZOMG PROFILE IN A WINDOW FULL BUGALLOOOOO BANG BANG!!!!!!"
 
oleoresin capsicum; real hot mace with UV marker and CS, basically.
Very effective on dogs, probably more so than humans. I recall a story where a guy had a neighbor with an aggressive dog and he sprayed it. Afterwards all he had to do was look at the dog and it would run away while yelping because it was so scared of him.

When my neighbor's husband was dying of cancer he bought his wife and daughter (each) a bull terrier type dog. Unfortunately the one he got his wife was extremely aggressive towards everyone in the neighborhood even away from it's territory. It would usually remain fenced in it's back yard but was good at getting out. I couldn't even mow the lawn without the thing about trying to tear through the fence. I wanted to spray it but my wife wouldn't let me. The same dog came into our garage and was advancing on my wife. She almost shot it but the neighbor's kid came over quickly and got it.
 
This is not directed to any individual member of this forum.

I'm not a cop hater. But the attitude some of the police have nowadays needs to change.
In the situation that caused this thread it appears that the police who responded to this call did not have the attitude that they were there to see if the tenants of the home were OK, but rather they set up an ambush for an intruder.
They didn't know if the lady that was killed was an intruder or a victim. The officer shot because he was anticipating an intruder.
So, did this response team go to this dwelling with the intent to see if the tenants we OK and offer assistance, or to bust a bad guy?
I think it was the latter.
Not every call the police respond to is about a bad guy, but it appears that is the logic they are being taught.
I am probably older than most on this forum so I have lived long enough to realize the difference in the way police respond now as opposed to the way they used to respond.
The shooter in this case apparently responded with the mindset that everyone at this location was a bad guy. Was he taught to think like that?

So to all of you LEOs on here, How do we stop things like this lady being killed by a trigger happy rookie?
Tell those of us who apparently know nothing (when you know nothing about the commenters background) what should be done to prevent tragedies like this.

I am not in any way challenging anyone or belittling anyone, but I think people deserve to know what approach Law Enforcement Agencies are going to take to prevent events like the shooting of an innocent woman in her own home from outside her home by a sworn law enforcement officer.

Don't fall back on "this was an isolated incident" because you don't have to look far to see that the frequency of events like this are increasing across our country. I don't want to throw all the incidents I am referring to out here, I prefer not to throw gasoline on a flame. But it is an easy search on the internet to find plenty of other instances beside the one this thread is about.
Remember, you LEO's work for us, you are supposed to be a public servant. I think the public desires events like this to stop, so how do you suggest we achieve that?

I'm not angry at anyone on here and this post is not intend to anger anyone. I just want an answer from the law enforcement members among us. How do we prevent this from happening again?
 
And to the same cop-haters, (back on thread now) please remember this case when you claim "blue covers up for blue" in your next blind rage/ rant. Cops want the bad cops put away even more than you do. We're not covering up crap for them. I love everybody on this forum, but some of you guys need to relax and breathe... I won't be answering any impolite comments directed towards this, so don't bother flaming me.

No flaming.

Would you classify cops who fight on every call as good cops or bad cops?

Nobody believes this "warzone" talk, at least no officers with over two years on the job, so forget that nonsense. That's TV and rookie talk there, or maybe Barney trying to "defy the mafia".

It's anecdotal, but every officer I know, both in person and the from conversations on the interwebs is convinced there is a war against them. You are the first one to say it's not a believed thing.
 
It depends on which neighborhoods you are talking about when saying that there is a "war" on police. In the neighborhoods that most people live in there isn't anything close to that. In gang infested neighborhoods, there is definitely a psuedo "war" happening.
 
So to all of you LEOs on here, How do we stop things like this lady being killed by a trigger happy rookie?
Training... Experience... Hiring better people to start with. The job doesn't pay enough to draw the cream of the crop or enough to retain the best of them. Most young people who go into Law Enforcement actually want to make the world a better place... That gets beaten out of them quickly. Then there are those who want action and can't wait for it to occur , which it will, naturally. Hopefully they get weeded out but since there aren't enough bodies to fill the positions now they are reluctant to give up any help even if it isn't great help.

One big problem is the job sucks, dealing with people who actually hate them but call for their help anyway. Every cop is lied to by everyone they talk to.

Don't fall back on "this was an isolated incident" because you don't have to look far to see that the frequency of events like this are increasing across our country.
Sorry but this was an isolated incident. The fact that we actively scour the media looking for aberrations and discuss them ad nauseam make you think the incidents are occurring more frequently. Remember for each travesty like this one, out of over 700,000 cops in the country 699,999 didn't shoot an innocent.

I think the public desires events like this to stop, so how do you suggest we achieve that?
I can't help but hear the anti gunners chants when I read this. "How do we stop gun violence?" The unpleasant fact is as long as we are dealing with humans errors are going to be made. All we can do is deal with them appropriately when they do.
 
No flaming.

Would you classify cops who fight on every call as good cops or bad cops?



It's anecdotal, but every officer I know, both in person and the from conversations on the interwebs is convinced there is a war against them. You are the first one to say it's not a believed thing.
I would definitely classify any officer who fights on every call as a definite problem; I've had my share of them ( 5 years, large urban department; 6 years, state narcotics), but I've talked more people into the backseat of a car than I've ever had to make get in one. I think an officer who escalates every encounter into a fight is a poor "beat manager" and the people on his beat won't talk to him or trust him. Never mind the other officers who work adjacent to him always having to respond to the fight calls on his beat, taking them off of theirs. Additionally, those types of cops may stick around a small agency but they will not last long in any decent-sized department.

The "warzone mentality" is a crybaby mentality to begin with. Only a rookie or a Barney Fife believes that, or a coward. I'm not saying I walk up to every car with my hands empty, I'm just saying I'm not shaking when I walk up. I control the encounter, not the passengers of the vehicle. If I don't like the area or something looks wrong ( harmful to the passengers or to myself), I have the choice to disengage or ask for additional units. The same goes for walking up on a group of known bangers and wanna-bes; a good cop can control ten of them anyday and gain the cooperation of the peripherals and the public in the area. You've got to be seen as trying to make a difference, not just talking about it.

Trust me, we know who the bad officers are and we work very hard to remove them as quickly as possible. They tend to get other people hurt, not usually themselves. Cops aren't paid to fight, we're paid to serve/win. Anybody that thinks they're that tough are free to go to MMA anytime they want to. Most of the real problem loudmouths with rude attitudes are the biggest pansies when it gets real anyway.
 
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This is not directed to any individual member of this forum.

I'm not a cop hater. But the attitude some of the police have nowadays needs to change.
In the situation that caused this thread it appears that the police who responded to this call did not have the attitude that they were there to see if the tenants of the home were OK, but rather they set up an ambush for an intruder.
They didn't know if the lady that was killed was an intruder or a victim. The officer shot because he was anticipating an intruder.
So, did this response team go to this dwelling with the intent to see if the tenants we OK and offer assistance, or to bust a bad guy?
I think it was the latter.
Not every call the police respond to is about a bad guy, but it appears that is the logic they are being taught.
I am probably older than most on this forum so I have lived long enough to realize the difference in the way police respond now as opposed to the way they used to respond.
The shooter in this case apparently responded with the mindset that everyone at this location was a bad guy. Was he taught to think like that?

So to all of you LEOs on here, How do we stop things like this lady being killed by a trigger happy rookie?
Tell those of us who apparently know nothing (when you know nothing about the commenters background) what should be done to prevent tragedies like this.

I am not in any way challenging anyone or belittling anyone, but I think people deserve to know what approach Law Enforcement Agencies are going to take to prevent events like the shooting of an innocent woman in her own home from outside her home by a sworn law enforcement officer.

Don't fall back on "this was an isolated incident" because you don't have to look far to see that the frequency of events like this are increasing across our country. I don't want to throw all the incidents I am referring to out here, I prefer not to throw gasoline on a flame. But it is an easy search on the internet to find plenty of other instances beside the one this thread is about.
Remember, you LEO's work for us, you are supposed to be a public servant. I think the public desires events like this to stop, so how do you suggest we achieve that?

I'm not angry at anyone on here and this post is not intend to anger anyone. I just want an answer from the law enforcement members among us. How do we prevent this from happening again?

I'm not sure we can fix this. The LEO community is just like the military, we are a mirror of society. That's why we laugh at the "jack-booted thugs" comments and the "king's men" stuff. We're your neighbors, we sit in church by you, we eat at the same restaurants, raise our kids next to yours, etc... we're not KGB. We're the same as you, just with a different calling. And, that's exactly what it is, a calling. That's why you see so many young cops causing problems with their attitudes or rude responses, they're just not meant to be there. They should have been weeded out earlier, but as a "public servant" our interactions are exactly that, public. We all know preachers or car mechanics who have absolutely no business in the job they have, but they get by for years because their interactions aren't with the general public, just a select few customers.

Again, I'm not sure we can fix this as a whole. We're madder than you at the politicians and the stupid judges, because we have to enforce what they pass. We execute a large amount of "discretion", however. For example, I've slung a lot of car keys in bushes if I run up on a parked DUI without any injuries. Other officers and most troopers live for that stuff. Not me. 2 drinks, call somebody or Uber... If you've run your car up a telephone pole or hurt somebody, you've exceeded my discretion and I have to take action. If you've punched your wife or kids, or vice versa; you're riding with me. You've exceeded my discretion. I've made kids throw out joints or roaches hundreds of times, but not charged them. But, if I catch you slinging packaged rocks or crystal; you're riding with me. I'm good with you venting your anger and letting it all air out, until there's kids in the area or you try to put your hands on them or someone else. Rage on, yell and scream how unfair life is and how your baby-mommy mistreats you; we'll listen. Hopefully, once you've sobered up you'll call or tell me about the real problems in your area; that's what I'm really here for. I've bought kids clothes when it was cold, I've brought people food, I've held peoples hands when they're sick or shot or run-over, etc... yes, it's a calling and we fight daily against the forces in our society who just want to burn it down, even if they're our elected bosses.

As far as the "militarized police " goes, I agree with most of the comments I see on here. But, having a patrol carbine in the trunk doesn't make you a "SWAT guy". A lot of the SWAT-type training with military units is just because they have the resources ( houses, vehicles, etc...) and it does go very close to what you will get on a SWAT callout. I'm former mil HRT, btw. And, I've served on local and state SRTs. I'm telling you the training doesn't usually get offered to the patrol guys, they don't need it and typically don't want it. As far as the 10-22 program ( offering surplus mil equipment to local departments) goes, I've never seen it to really have an impact on day-to-day operations. The MRAPs are a joke at a local PD, they're not going to spend the money to maintain them anyway; but they look cool for a moment.

I do think we should go back to wearing regular polyester uniforms with a proper appearance; I don't care for the fatigue look unless you've got a specialized unit that requires it for an event, not everyday wear. It just looks wrong.

I hope I've answered more questions than I've raised. Yes, I'm a 25 year guy and a supervisor. I cringe when the "millennials" get supervisor status just like you do.
 
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I'm not sure we can fix this. The LEO community is just like the military, we are a mirror of society. That's why we laugh at the "jack-booted thugs" comments and the "king's men" stuff. We're your neighbors, we sit in church by you, we eat at the same restaurants, raise our kids next to yours, etc... we're not KGB. We're the same as you, just with a different calling. And, that's exactly what it is, a calling. That's why you see so many young cops causing problems with their attitudes or rude responses, they're just not meant to be there. They should have been weeded out earlier, but as a "public servant" our interactions are exactly that, public. We all know preachers or car mechanics who have absolutely no business in the job they have, but they get by for years because their interactions aren't with the general public, just a select few customers.

Again, I'm not sure we can fix this as a whole. We're madder than you at the politicians and the stupid judges, because we have to enforce what they pass. We execute a large amount of "discretion", however. For example, I've slung a lot of car keys in bushes if I run up on a parked DUI without any injuries. Other officers and most troopers live for that stuff. Not me. 2 drinks, call somebody or Uber... If you've run your car up a telephone pole or hurt somebody, you've exceeded my discretion and I have to take action. If you've punched your wife or kids, or vice versa; you're riding with me. You've exceeded my discretion. I've made kids throw out joints or roaches hundreds of times, but not charged them. But, if I catch you slinging packaged rocks or crystal; you're riding with me. I'm good with you venting your anger and letting it all air out, until there's kids in the area or you try to put your hands on them or someone else. Rage on, yell and scream how unfair life is and how your baby-mommy mistreats you; we'll listen. Hopefully, once you've sobered up you'll call or tell me about the real problems in your area; that's what I'm really here for. I've bought kids clothes when it was cold, I've brought people food, I've held peoples hands when they're sick or shot or run-over, etc... yes, it's a calling and we fight daily against the forces in our society who just want to burn it down, even if they're our elected bosses.

As far as the "militarized police " goes, I agree with most of the comments I see on here. But, having a patrol carbine in the trunk doesn't make you a "SWAT guy". A lot of the SWAT-type training with military units is just because they have the resources ( houses, vehicles, etc...) and it does go very close to what you will get on a SWAT callout. I'm former mil HRT, btw. And, I've served on local and state SRTs. I'm telling you the training doesn't usually get offered to the patrol guys, they don't need it and typically don't want it. As far as the 10-22 program ( offering surplus mil equipment to local departments) goes, I've never seen it to really have an impact on day-to-day operations. The MRAPs are a joke at a local PD, they're not going to spend the money to maintain them anyway; but they look cool for a moment.

I do think we should go back to wearing regular polyester uniforms with a proper appearance; I don't care for the fatigue look unless you've got a specialized unit that requires it for an event, not everyday wear. It just looks wrong.

I hope I've answered more questions than I've raised. Yes, I'm a 25 year guy and a supervisor. I cringe when the "millennials" get supervisor status just like you do.
Well articulated and thought out response, thank you for sharing your view on the subject, I found it very informative.
 
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