CZ 75 or 75B
- Thread starter Millie
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You may, and you may not...who is to say.
You generally get what you pay for. $400-600 for a good pistol is not unusual, and is the general range for the standards.
Also, firearms retain their value extremely well >if they are cared for<. There is very few other things that retain value the same, or even appreciate like firearms. Even the boring old Glocks, if taken care of, generally lost only about 10% of their value over time. Some brands even appreciate pretty well. Just ask those who invested in Colt revolvers a few decades ago...
So when you spend $400 on a pistol, you are really just turning cash into another medium. If you needed the $400 back, you could pretty easily get it. It isn't like golf clubs or tennis rackets that drop value in half as soon as they get rung up.
That is why we refer to this forum as a community.
There is always someone ready to help with whatever you need. There is always someone willing to answer questions. There is always someone that will help guide new shooters to firearms that suit them. There is always someone willing to let you try before you buy.
I'm actually glad to see you taking such an interest and trying to learn new things. Open minds are the best minds.
OP
Someone once told me my mind was so wide open it was a wonder stuff didn't fall out! Lol. I'm pretty sure as I've aged, more stuff has fallen out more frequently!!!
OP
Yeah...watched the spring kit video....no. The trigger is fine, to me. I can pull it just fine. No sense me messing around with that stuff! Maybe in 50 years if a spring wears out? My heirs can do it! That's why I'd replace the springs, right? If they wore out or something went wrong with them?
Am I missing something?
You aren't missing anything. The internals of most firearms are fine...but just like car people gun people like to "fix stuff". The trigger kits, spring kits, and all that jive help...but help in a way that is like adding 50 horsepower to a car that already has 400 more horsepower than you will ever need.
If you shoot often, or compete, or just like "stuff" then things like that are great. No arguments against them really.
OP
Thanks for that! I'm probably not going to do stuff unless it needs to be done to fix something. Lol. Right now, I think cleaning my guns is pretty advanced stuff! (Well, not on the revolver, but taking apart something to clean it!)
Not until its done then reversed would you miss it.
Walt Sherrill
Well-Known Member
RE: CZ-75 vs. CZ-75B...
As others have noted, they're basically the same gun, but the B series (and almost ALL are Bs) means there's firing pin block.
I've had a bunch of pre-B's (what CZ enthusiasts call the original CZ-75 series of guns) and even more B models. The pre-Bs as you get into the 1990s become almost identical to the B models (which were a later stage of evolution for the same gun), except for the finish, the sight dovetails, the grips, and a few smaller parts. The latest polycoat finish is durable and can be touched up with matte black auto body paint; older polycoats got better with time, but the older finishes are paint, and not worth warm spit. They also made nickel-plated models, and high-gloss blued ones, too. (I've still got an 85 Combat in satin nickel, and have had several in high-gloss blue -- but now avoid all high-gloss finished.)
The earliest CZ-75s had a quirky safety -- if you find one with a safety lever with a pin-hole in it, put it down and run away. There's a spring inside the lever that must be controlled (with a pin or toothpick) if you remove the safety... and if you don' t it goes walkabout, and replacements aren't available. Kadet Kits -- and it's generally unknown the newer (for the B model CZ) .22 conversion kit won't work on all older (pre-B CZs), which have wider hammers. Most pre-Bs won't accept newer hi-cap mags unless you open up the grip mag channel with a flat file. Finding mags can be an issue, otherwise.
My 85 Combat, fitted with a Kadet Kit, would outshoot my Ruger Target Competition (a government model with slab sides and the LONG barrel), so I traded the Ruger away. I still have a Ruger MKII .22, but not an expensive one.
I gave up on pre-Bs a long time ago, as anything they can do can be done with the 75B series with a little gunsmithing work. (The CZ Forum [http://www.czfirearms.us/] has great how-to tips and has members and participants who really know their stuff, including the head of the CZ Custom Shop, and David Milan, who runs Cajun Gun Works.) The original design, which has a more-oval trigger guard, is more attractive -- along with a spur hammer. CZ introduced a RETRO MODEL a few years back that LOOKED like a pre-B but was a 75B. One of those would be a great find!
I've kept my CZ-85B, a CZ P-07, a custom AT-84s (which was an almost clone when introduced, made in Switzerland), and a Sphinx SDP. These are all great guns.
Look around for a USED CZ-75B to get into the family, and then worry about upgrading or moving on to a better CZ. (Some of their IPSC-type guns are almost pornography). There are a lot of nice guns available from the factory, from the CZ Custom Shop, or from Cajun Gun Works.
As others have noted, they're basically the same gun, but the B series (and almost ALL are Bs) means there's firing pin block.
I've had a bunch of pre-B's (what CZ enthusiasts call the original CZ-75 series of guns) and even more B models. The pre-Bs as you get into the 1990s become almost identical to the B models (which were a later stage of evolution for the same gun), except for the finish, the sight dovetails, the grips, and a few smaller parts. The latest polycoat finish is durable and can be touched up with matte black auto body paint; older polycoats got better with time, but the older finishes are paint, and not worth warm spit. They also made nickel-plated models, and high-gloss blued ones, too. (I've still got an 85 Combat in satin nickel, and have had several in high-gloss blue -- but now avoid all high-gloss finished.)
The earliest CZ-75s had a quirky safety -- if you find one with a safety lever with a pin-hole in it, put it down and run away. There's a spring inside the lever that must be controlled (with a pin or toothpick) if you remove the safety... and if you don' t it goes walkabout, and replacements aren't available. Kadet Kits -- and it's generally unknown the newer (for the B model CZ) .22 conversion kit won't work on all older (pre-B CZs), which have wider hammers. Most pre-Bs won't accept newer hi-cap mags unless you open up the grip mag channel with a flat file. Finding mags can be an issue, otherwise.
My 85 Combat, fitted with a Kadet Kit, would outshoot my Ruger Target Competition (a government model with slab sides and the LONG barrel), so I traded the Ruger away. I still have a Ruger MKII .22, but not an expensive one.
I gave up on pre-Bs a long time ago, as anything they can do can be done with the 75B series with a little gunsmithing work. (The CZ Forum [http://www.czfirearms.us/] has great how-to tips and has members and participants who really know their stuff, including the head of the CZ Custom Shop, and David Milan, who runs Cajun Gun Works.) The original design, which has a more-oval trigger guard, is more attractive -- along with a spur hammer. CZ introduced a RETRO MODEL a few years back that LOOKED like a pre-B but was a 75B. One of those would be a great find!
I've kept my CZ-85B, a CZ P-07, a custom AT-84s (which was an almost clone when introduced, made in Switzerland), and a Sphinx SDP. These are all great guns.
Look around for a USED CZ-75B to get into the family, and then worry about upgrading or moving on to a better CZ. (Some of their IPSC-type guns are almost pornography). There are a lot of nice guns available from the factory, from the CZ Custom Shop, or from Cajun Gun Works.
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Walt Sherrill
Well-Known Member
There is the COMPACT, which is steel and has a safety, and the alloy-framed compacts, which have decockers. I've had a couple of Compacts (steel with safety), but found them heavier than I cared for.
The new Omega compacts (I've seen them discussed, but not for sale yet) would give you the smaller (compact) size with the lighter alloy frame, and your choice of safety or decocker. That would be an awesome gun.
The new Omega compacts (I've seen them discussed, but not for sale yet) would give you the smaller (compact) size with the lighter alloy frame, and your choice of safety or decocker. That would be an awesome gun.
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The P01 omegas are out there, that would give the benefits of the lighter alloy frame, the ability to swap safety and decocker, and a rail if OP needed a light or laser.
Not to hijack the thread, but I never gave them a second look before, really. You guys had been blabbing on about how they eject gold shell casings and such, so I fiddled with one at the gun show. Handles well and points well. There are just so many variations to that cz full size pistol... I'd not know where to start. They look like they are 5-600 bucks or 1700.00.
I handled/shot Chikin 's tanfoglio, which I assume is like a cz, and it was a sweet shooting experience.
I handled/shot Chikin 's tanfoglio, which I assume is like a cz, and it was a sweet shooting experience.
Tanfoglios are clones of CZs, so yeah they are similar, and from everything I have read can be pretty darn awesome in their own right.
As far as the naming and all that, I admit it can be kinda odd at first, but so is learning the difference between a G17, G19, G26, G30, G22, G23, and so on. Ive actually found that once I looked into it their naming conventions actually kinda make sense...a CZ 75 D Compact PCR is "CZ (Company) 75 (Year of design) D (Decocker) Compact (size) PCR (Police Czech Republic). B models just mean there is a trigger Block if you see that in the name.
They aren't the cheapest, that's for sure, but most are in the 500-650 range that I have seen. Some lower, some more, depending on the supersweetness or rarity. The biggest issue I have found with them is that they come to the market in batches, so you may see a whole bunch of one model for a while, but none of another. I think what most people "fall in love with" is that for around the same price as any of the WunderPlastiks you get an all metal pistol that feels like it has some soul, kinda like how a 1911 feels.
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I am waiting on a Shadow 2 to get to my local FFL. It will reside with my 75B and P01. I went with the Urban Gray. I liked the look and it was cheaper than the Black or Standard Shadow 2 with the blue grips.
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So, why did you chose the Shadow vs. another version….Its a nice looking gun!I am waiting on a Shadow 2 to get to my local FFL. It will reside with my 75B and P01. I went with the Urban Gray. I liked the look and it was cheaper than the Black or Standard Shadow 2 with the blue grips.
OP
Thanks. Not really worried about size or weight. I actually want a heavier gun to keep the "snappy" factor down...have been bruised by a really !light gun recently. Lol. I'm spending time getting information on lots of guns, hoping to get my hands on as many as possible to see how they feel and how the recoil is.
It is a competition type setup with a fiber optic front and adjustable rear sight. It comes with an extended more 1911 like thumb safety. It is has some features that make it a gateway drug to high end competition guns. There is a more attention to detail in this gun at the factory than the standard 75B. It is an evolution of the SP-01 Shadow which is a very popular USPSA Production gun.
Looking to use it as a range gun and for information steel challenges and IDPA type shoots. Also it is just plan slick looking and different than other 9mms I have in the stable.
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Walt Sherrill
Well-Known Member
The "B" means firing pin block. I'm sure that's what you meant. And the naming convention doesn't tell you whether the frame is steel or alloy or the SIZE of the frame. (the capital "C" Compact model has a steel frame, while the other metal compacts use alloy frames.)
There haven't really been "true" CZ clones since the late 70's. (ITM in Switzerland made some true clones called the AT-84, but the later AT-84s -- I have a custom model -- were based on the Tanfoglio version of the design, which is subtly different and NOT a clone.
The Tanfoglio guns (are. as you note, pretty darned awesome) are based on the CZ pattern, but there's almost nothing that can be interchanged between the Tanfoglio guns and the CZs except, in some cases, magazines. How the hammer is sprung, how the firing pin block works, the size of pins, the sight dovetails, even the way the slide fits on the frame, are all different. The large-frame Tanfoglio guns, which include the Witness models imported by EAA, have smaller grips than do the CZ large frame guns.
Other CZ Pattern guns, which include the Sphinx and a number of newer offerings from Turkey, are all variants, mostly of the Tanfoglio pattern -- and there's not a lot of interchangeability between the Tanfoglio-based guns, either. The Chinese (Norinco) version of the CZ may be a true clone, but you can't get it in the U.S.
Sphinx guns are excellent unfortunately they have moved production to the US from Switzerland due to monetary trouble for the Swiss part of the Sphinx brand. KRISS now manufacturers them.
I was really hoping they would release a fullsized SDP but that has been shelved. I really like my Swiss Compact and Sub-compact SDP. Super tight great shooting guns.
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Walt Sherrill
Well-Known Member
Sphinx, SphinxArms, and several other companies based on the original Sphinx organization tried to make it work over the years, and just couldn't make it happen profitably. Throughout the process, however, the quality remained high, and the current SDP versions were re-engineered to allow greater use of automated production methods -- rather than the relying on so much hand work during production
The SDP that you and I own was produced using the new technology and equipment, and hopefully KRISS will be able to produce them with the same high level of fit and finish. As you say, it seems "unfortunate" but the only other option was to close down the business and not build the SDP at all. I hear from Kriss reps from time to time, and they haven't thrown in the towel, yet.
I was offered a chance to buy a full-size model a year or so ago, and I just couldn't come up the necessary dollars to make it happen, even though I would have gotten it at a good discount. (I haven't decided whether I missed a chance or made a good move. -- as the full-size guns are beautiful weapons. And they would've been cheaper than than a new P-210 series gun.)
The SDP that you and I own was produced using the new technology and equipment, and hopefully KRISS will be able to produce them with the same high level of fit and finish. As you say, it seems "unfortunate" but the only other option was to close down the business and not build the SDP at all. I hear from Kriss reps from time to time, and they haven't thrown in the towel, yet.
I was offered a chance to buy a full-size model a year or so ago, and I just couldn't come up the necessary dollars to make it happen, even though I would have gotten it at a good discount. (I haven't decided whether I missed a chance or made a good move. -- as the full-size guns are beautiful weapons. And they would've been cheaper than than a new P-210 series gun.)
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You are most likely on the good because it is my understanding that they have no intention of bringing it to market. They have gone another route. I personally wish I had picked up a all steel Duo-tone when they were on production. They are all gone and I do not believe they are coming back.
It should also be noted that there were two early versions of the CZ75, one with a thinner "Browning nose" & short slide/frame rails. Then there is what many here in the west consider the "Original Pre-B CZ-75" with it's full length slide rails and heavier "Browning nose". It was designed approx. 1979 or thereabouts, as a more durable modification that is intended to give longer service life of both the frame's fore end and the slide's fore end. It is more common outside of Europe .
Like so:
Early CZ-75 w/ short slide/frame rails
Later so-called "Original Pre-B" version with longer slide/frame rails & heavier slide.
Like so:
Early CZ-75 w/ short slide/frame rails
Later so-called "Original Pre-B" version with longer slide/frame rails & heavier slide.
Love those old short rails!It should also be noted that there were two early versions of the CZ75, one with a thinner "Browning nose" & short slide/frame rails. Then there is what many here in the west consider the "Original Pre-B CZ-75" with it's full length slide rails and heavier "Browning nose". It was designed approx. 1979 or thereabouts, as a more durable modification that is intended to give longer service life of both the frame's fore end and the slide's fore end. It is more common outside of Europe .
Like so:
Early CZ-75 w/ short slide/frame rails
Later so-called "Original Pre-B" version with longer slide/frame rails & heavier slide.
OP
It should also be noted that there were two early versions of the CZ75, one with a thinner "Browning nose" & short slide/frame rails. Then there is what many here in the west consider the "Original Pre-B CZ-75" with it's full length slide rails and heavier "Browning nose". It was designed approx. 1979 or thereabouts, as a more durable modification that is intended to give longer service life of both the frame's fore end and the slide's fore end. It is more common outside of Europe .
Like so:
Early CZ-75 w/ short slide/frame rails
Later so-called "Original Pre-B" version with longer slide/frame rails & heavier slide.
[/QUOTE/]Love those....very nice!
CZ Custom makes some short railed versions complete with custom actions and other goodies. For a price of course. But they look awesome.
Walt Sherrill
Well-Known Member
Offhand, I can't think of any advantage to having a non-original short-railed CZ-75. As I understand it, CZ went to longer rails and a slightly different frame design because extended use of the orignal design led to frame damage. (More recently, maybe in this discussion, I saw slide damage mentioned, too.)
Just having one for looks may be fine -- if the CZ Custom version is structurally sound, but I doubt that I'd bother. I'd rather spend the extra money on performance upgrades or get one of the CZ IPSC-style guns or try a P-09 tarted out with all of the CZ Custom or Cajun Gun Works performance options.
Just having one for looks may be fine -- if the CZ Custom version is structurally sound, but I doubt that I'd bother. I'd rather spend the extra money on performance upgrades or get one of the CZ IPSC-style guns or try a P-09 tarted out with all of the CZ Custom or Cajun Gun Works performance options.
Yeah, but IMO CZ dropped the ball having P-09's and P-07's use different mags than the 75's. If they could have kept mag commonality I'd probably have a P-07 and P-09 at this point. CZ Custom was doing a RMR slide cut for P-09's and that with some nice action upgrades could make that a really fun gun.
Walt Sherrill
Well-Known Member
Yeah. The P-09 and P-07 mags are awkward. But CZ did that with the IPSC guns, too.
An afterthout: I would note that the P-09 grip is much longer than anything CZ does in other models. I don't think there any compatibility possible. (Even the IPSC gun mags aren't as long as the P-09 mags.)
That said, the P-07 can USE the standard CZ mags, but they're a bit loose -- but it doesn't work the other way around.
The Sphinx SDP uses a mag that is compatible wit the P-07, too. I suspect the P-09 mags would work, too. Not ideal for concealed carry, however.
The Canik55 Stingray and Shark mags (15 rounders) work in both the CZ-P07 and Sphinx SDP, but you may have to slim down the top of the baseplate for one or the other. (I bought several and did the modes, but don't remember which one required the mod. They work in either gun after the mod.) I got some of these mags from J&G sales at a very good price, but the prices have gone up. I don't know whether the one they now are offering are compatible.
An afterthout: I would note that the P-09 grip is much longer than anything CZ does in other models. I don't think there any compatibility possible. (Even the IPSC gun mags aren't as long as the P-09 mags.)
That said, the P-07 can USE the standard CZ mags, but they're a bit loose -- but it doesn't work the other way around.
The Sphinx SDP uses a mag that is compatible wit the P-07, too. I suspect the P-09 mags would work, too. Not ideal for concealed carry, however.
The Canik55 Stingray and Shark mags (15 rounders) work in both the CZ-P07 and Sphinx SDP, but you may have to slim down the top of the baseplate for one or the other. (I bought several and did the modes, but don't remember which one required the mod. They work in either gun after the mod.) I got some of these mags from J&G sales at a very good price, but the prices have gone up. I don't know whether the one they now are offering are compatible.
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Well I picked up my Shadow 2 today. It is slick. DA pull is about 9.5 and the SA is 4.5 but it is super smooth. One of the best DA/SA stock triggers I have shot. The gun is very front nose heavy. It is noticeably heavier than a standard 75B. It really soaks up recoil. Its like shooting a 22. The pistol simply does not move in your hands. The sight picture with the fiber optic front stay clear and focused.
I shot some steel targets today. 5 and 6 plate setups and it was quick. I was faster with shooting it for the first time then I was with my Garthwaite BHP or my Glock 19. It was on par with my Les Baer TRS. The trigger on the TRS is still better but for a non-1911 trigger the Shadow 2 was excellent. It was clearly designed for competition shooting.
I might play around with some spring kits from CGW. Eventually I might send it to them for a little cleaning up but man right out of the box it is one soft shooting slick 9mms. The rails are like ball bearings. It is smooth. I am going to swap out the left side safety for the more 1911 style that came in the box with it eventually but for now I am going to leave it as is.
I need to get a few more blue follower Mecgars to go with the 3 that came in the box.
I shot some steel targets today. 5 and 6 plate setups and it was quick. I was faster with shooting it for the first time then I was with my Garthwaite BHP or my Glock 19. It was on par with my Les Baer TRS. The trigger on the TRS is still better but for a non-1911 trigger the Shadow 2 was excellent. It was clearly designed for competition shooting.
I might play around with some spring kits from CGW. Eventually I might send it to them for a little cleaning up but man right out of the box it is one soft shooting slick 9mms. The rails are like ball bearings. It is smooth. I am going to swap out the left side safety for the more 1911 style that came in the box with it eventually but for now I am going to leave it as is.
I need to get a few more blue follower Mecgars to go with the 3 that came in the box.
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Walt Sherrill
Well-Known Member
That write-up is almost the firearms equivalent of pornography...
Combat Diver
Well-Known Member
Never owned a CZ75B but have had several preBs.
Bruce Nelson Summer Special IWB holster that he made for me in 88'
Range day in North Dakota earlier this year at -5 degrees outside (without windchill)
Over the years I've collected CZs owning a cz27, 4 ea cz50s, cz70, 4 ea cz75s, cz83 and a cz85. Had a preWWII BRNO Persian Mauser 98/29. Still have that action. One thing I like about my CZs is the ability to carry cocked and locked. Used to compete in ISPC in the early 90s with my 75/85s.
CD
Bruce Nelson Summer Special IWB holster that he made for me in 88'
Range day in North Dakota earlier this year at -5 degrees outside (without windchill)
Over the years I've collected CZs owning a cz27, 4 ea cz50s, cz70, 4 ea cz75s, cz83 and a cz85. Had a preWWII BRNO Persian Mauser 98/29. Still have that action. One thing I like about my CZs is the ability to carry cocked and locked. Used to compete in ISPC in the early 90s with my 75/85s.
CD
Walt Sherrill
Well-Known Member
I like the 75 line, and have owned several CZ-82s -- have had a bunch of 75s and 75bs (and still have an 85 Combat and P-07); also had a CZ-97B and a variety of "clones" (none of which really were clones, including a number of Tanfoglio-pattern guns. The rest of the CZ pistols, the older ones, are less interesting to me.
I had a CZ-50, and shot a friend's CZ-52 a good bit. I also had a VZ-52 semi-auto carbine for a while. (The pawnshop where I found it thought it was an Enfield, and had it listed that way on their books. I didn't tell them they were wrong -- as they were real snots and thought they new everything about the gun. (A semi-auto Enfield?) The VZ-52 is an interesting, simple design. Never shot it... couldn't find a good place to shoot it, and ammo was hard to find at that time.
I had a CZ-50, and shot a friend's CZ-52 a good bit. I also had a VZ-52 semi-auto carbine for a while. (The pawnshop where I found it thought it was an Enfield, and had it listed that way on their books. I didn't tell them they were wrong -- as they were real snots and thought they new everything about the gun. (A semi-auto Enfield?) The VZ-52 is an interesting, simple design. Never shot it... couldn't find a good place to shoot it, and ammo was hard to find at that time.
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