DI vs Piston...

MadMardigan

MadMardigan

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So, I’m running around a rabbit hole here.

I shoot suppressed, so I’m getting a lot of extra fouling in my BCG.

How much of a difference would a short stroke piston system, like the 416 by HK or others would that make?
 
Not an answer to your question, but has fouling ever stopped your gun from running? If not, why worry about it? And I say this as a piston guy.
 
Timfoilhat said:
Not an answer to your question, but has fouling ever stopped your gun from running? If not, why worry about it? And I say this as a piston guy.
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yup, I was seeing how long I could go on a 300blk, and it gummed up and wasn’t getting good primer strikes.

my 6.5 Grendel still runs, but I have to wonder how long, cause after about 3 rounds, all of the rounds in the mag are coated heavily with soot.
 
MadMardigan said:
yup, I was seeing how long I could go on a 300blk, and it gummed up and wasn’t getting good primer strikes.

my 6.5 Grendel still runs, but I have to wonder how long, cause after about 3 rounds, all of the rounds in the mag are coated heavily with soot.
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Okay, so the 300 stopped. How long did that take? What ammo were you shooting?
 
Timfoilhat said:
Okay, so the 300 stopped. How long did that take? What ammo were you shooting?
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Probably around the 500 round mark, and just a mix of ammo, from Remington, Sig, and others.

I was doing it as a test to see how long I could go with out stripping and cleaning. My 223 AR could well over 1000 with out failing (not suppressed).

Grendel hasn’t failed yet, but it’s getting nasty quick, I don’t shoot with high volume.
 
MadMardigan said:
Probably around the 500 round mark, and just a mix of ammo, from Remington, Sig, and others.

I was doing it as a test to see how long I could go with out stripping and cleaning. My 223 AR could well over 1000 with out failing (not suppressed).

Grendel hasn’t failed yet, but it’s getting nasty quick, I don’t shoot with high volume.
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I just picked u an Adams Arms 5.56 here for <$500 to test noise and filth levels. For 300BLK & Grendel brass picker uppers, the shiny brass is A LOT easier to find when collecting.
 
MadMardigan said:
Probably around the 500 round mark, and just a mix of ammo, from Remington, Sig, and others.

I was doing it as a test to see how long I could go with out stripping and cleaning. My 223 AR could well over 1000 with out failing (not suppressed).

Grendel hasn’t failed yet, but it’s getting nasty quick, I don’t shoot with high volume.
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Sorry, one more follow up and I'll stop I promise...the thing with DI guns is they like lube. I've stopped a non-suppressed DI gun by not lubing it after taking it out of the safe after two years and not adding lube. Seized up on the first shot. So when it started getting a bit gummed up did you squirt more oil in there on the bolt?
 
Timfoilhat said:
Sorry, one more follow up and I'll stop I promise...the thing with DI guns is they like lube. I've stopped a non-suppressed DI gun by not lubing it after taking it out of the safe after two years and not adding lube. Seized up on the first shot. So when it started getting a bit gummed up did you squirt more oil in there on the bolt?
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this was a test, didn’t change the lube that game from the factory or cleaned it.

my 223 was nickel boron BCG, so it probably would have ran longer with out maintenance.

I’m looking hard at the PSA JAKL when it comes out later this year.

so, follow up, what lube do y’all use?
 
I'm a TW25b guy. I bought a Sig that came with a sample. My wife thought she was being a sweetheart and bought me a HUGE industrial size tube of it for a surprise gift. I've been using that stuff for a loooong time. Works great, but so would ATF or Mobil1.
 
I keep CLP in the range bag just in case, but this is what they get after I build them.

EF2A7DB7-5BF1-4505-B922-9B10E182530E.jpeg

If I ever run out, it’ll probably just be Mobile1 going forward.
 
I’m waiting on the Dead Air Nomad to get out of jail, per McGee, it creates less back pressure on gas guns, so makes me wonder if that will lead to less fouling back in the chamber.

OSS is supposed to be the best in that realm of suppressing
 
I also have an MR556, MR762 and a 416 upper. I love them but like said above, they are heavy.
Here is my MR762 bolt after 100 rounds of M118LR and Hornady 168 & 178 gr.
67C7EE34-AA9E-476E-8DD9-81603E26A9BA.jpeg D3CE5D18-7A01-45E5-9874-A3F48F4DFAA2.jpeg F74F86D4-2EAB-40AB-8829-B6FE3E9D66A0.jpeg 84A41E13-3C61-4D2B-B5E9-E2AEA8EFCBE8.jpeg
 
Catfish said:
Well you could reduce "extra fouling" down to "normal fouling" cheaply and easily without adding weight to your rifle by switching to an AGB.
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Yeah, that’s in the plan. I haven’t been shooting suppressed with ARs for long, so this was a test to see. the added back pressure from baffles does affect everything else in the system.
 
I run an Osprey kit on a Colt 14.5" as my FA blaster upper. Without a can it will run all day and still have oil on the BCG, suppressed (M4-2000) and everything is dirty in less than 300 rds.
On the positive side it's less dirty than DI but it still gets gunked up after a while. The biggest difference I see is with a suppressed DI gun even the lower gets nasty, not so much with my piston setup.
 
I have 2 PWS guns and love them. I forgot my adjustment tool last range trip and didn't turn the setting down with my Chimera. Holy hell gas to the face! But man the gun runs good even on the non surpressed setting and I don't think it's much heavier than a standard AR.
 
Anybody that’s shooting a suppressed AR without RTV and a hole in the CH is missing out. AGBs are great, but for a one time purchase of a couple bucks for RTV, you can mitigate a decent amount of the gas face issue.
 
BigWaylon said:
Anybody that’s shooting a suppressed AR without RTV and a hole in the CH is missing out. AGBs are great, but for a one time purchase of a couple bucks for RTV, you can mitigate a decent amount of the gas face issue.
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Link to the process?
 
JRHorne said:
Link to the process?
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Here’s a bookmark I have for the RTV. Once you have the idea, you’ll figure out how you want to do it. The last ones I did I just wrapped plastic wrap (Saran wrap, cling wrap, whatever yuh want to call it) around the rear tang of the upper so the RTV didn’t stick to it. And I have some kind of black RTV on mine. The link:

http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/do-it-yourself-gas-buster-charging-handle

The hole is just drilling one near the T so that it connects to the channel. Exact size doesn’t really matter. Only works for right-handed shooters and doesn’t work with most of the fancy ambidextrous style handles. This bookmarked link ought to at least give you an idea:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/...te_getting_gas_in_the_face_/20-311612/?page=1
 
...it will be cleaner obviously, but piston driven semi autos tend to be louder, and probably wont be as quiet than a di when suppresed.

A can wil make either system dirtier......every once in a while you still gotta clean the piston and tube.
 
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I used to have a Rock River mid length upper with an Adam's Arms piston conversion installed.

As others have already said, it will run considerably cleaner, my BCG only ever had a light coating of carbon at the front from the action cycling, and the bolt face was the only really dirty place in the BCG.
The piston I only cleaned maybe twice a year.
I could never get the thing dirty enough to crank the gas open to the suppressor setting.
I'm of the opinion its Six one, a half dozen the other......
 
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