Do I need a building permit for...

Tim

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Man...I've tried. I've downloaded the building codes and I just have no clue when a permit is required and when it's not. The wife and I are going to do some remodeling, some of which may require a permit.

Which of these projects requires inspection/permitting? And which can I just do myself? We're likely going to sell within the next couple years, so going without proper permits isn't an option.

- Convert an existing bedroom closet...this closet shares a wall with the main hallway. We're going to close off the existing closet door and open it up into the hallway to add a much-needed coat/broom closet. This will require rerouting 2 outlets and a hardwired smoke alarm.

- Build a new closet in the bedroom.

- Add a gas fireplace. The gas pipe is already there from a POS gas log that was here when we bought the place.

- add a second gas fireplace that requires plumbing the gas pipe - branching off the existing pipe for the fireplace above.

- Undercabinet lighting in a kitchen.

- add recessed lighting to a living room. Attic access is easy, so the install should not be a problem.

This is in addition to the typical remodel stuff of counters, cabinets, carpet, crown mouldings, etc. which won't need permits.
 
The "man" is going to have his hand out and want his share of the money. Different counties have different codes. Contact your local county planning office...from a pay phone...lol

DS

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Man...I've tried. I've downloaded the building codes and I just have no clue when a permit is required and when it's not. The wife and I are going to do some remodeling, some of which may require a permit.

Which of these projects requires inspection/permitting? And which can I just do myself? We're likely going to sell within the next couple years, so going without proper permits isn't an option.

- Convert an existing bedroom closet...this closet shares a wall with the main hallway. We're going to close off the existing closet door and open it up into the hallway to add a much-needed coat/broom closet. This will require rerouting 2 outlets and a hardwired smoke alarm.

- Build a new closet in the bedroom.

- Add a gas fireplace. The gas pipe is already there from a POS gas log that was here when we bought the place.

- add a second gas fireplace that requires plumbing the gas pipe - branching off the existing pipe for the fireplace above.

- Undercabinet lighting in a kitchen.

- add recessed lighting to a living room. Attic access is easy, so the install should not be a problem.

This is in addition to the typical remodel stuff of counters, cabinets, carpet, crown mouldings, etc. which won't need permits.
Depends on how much you want to invite the man into your life. I know folks who have done alot more with no permits.... just sayin...
 
Depends on how much you want to invite the man into your life. I know folks who have done alot more with no permits.... just sayin...


I already said that our plan is to sell, so forgoing required permits is not an option. I don't love the man any more than that next guy, but I'm a realist when it comes to stuff like this.
 
I wouldn't pull any, so long as you have someone who knows what they are doing in regards to cutting holes in walls, and how to properly relocate the electric.
If you have a gas co. install the new fireplace, they may or may not pull one. But obviously you want someone that can plumb the gas lines in a manner that what cause you to blow up.

And really unless you drastically change the layout of the house, add sqft, or a bathroom, it's not really something that will be known.
 
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Hire licensed pros to do any electrical, gas pipe, HVAC, or plumbing work; they will pull their own permits and handle inspections. If their inspections fail, you have a lever to tilt their feet towards the fire, and they pretty much have to pass eventually. When you sell, this covers your a$$.

Everything else - painting, countertops, connecting new devices to existing outlets - is purely cosmetic. Since you don't live in Buncombe County, I can't speak to your local code. However, 'round these parts, if it ain't "safety related," then they just want a piece o' the action, i.e. your improvements increase market value and they want/will coerce you to report said improvements so they can raise your tax value and take more of your money, which, duh! they consider themselves entitled to.

Get the necesaries done by others first, then decorate to your hearts' contents (plural 'cause if you don't include Mama, ain't nobody happy). When you go on market, there will be an appraisal, but that won't affect your tax value; it may (or may not) trigger a new tax evaluation which will be the new owner's issue, not yours.
 
I don’t think that the building codes deal with when a permit is required, they are simply about how the work must be done.

If you are comfortable doing the work to code, and you aren’t adding a bedroom or kitchen and you aren’t adding heated square feet, then I’d just do whatever work I’m comfortable with and have time for.

There is no record of where the outlets, lights, closets and fireplaces are in your house, the county can barely keep track of the heated square footage. If the work is done to code you’ll get past the buyer’s inspection and that’s really all I’d worry about.
 
The easiest way to find out is to call and ask, and then take that under advisement :)

Make sure the work is done well and to code, but as has been said, if there isn't a reason that the work is obviously not original, it is very unlikely anyone will know.

That said, I'm not sure what real estate contracts and realtor contracts say and how much disclosure they ask for and what you are willing to say on them. Might be worth asking an experienced realtor you know about that side of it as well, and also for their opinion on what sorts of things raise a flag when the home inspector comes by and may notice alterations that should have been permitted.
 
Gas: new work (adding fireplace) requires permit. You might want the installer to inspect the system for any issues before pulling the permit so you’ll have an idea of any worms you might be digging up.
 
I agree with @fuelpiper that adding the plumbing will require one. The other stuff I doubt it as your not adding or changing the structure or interfereing with anything load bearing.
 
so you’ll have an idea of any worms you might be digging up.
This reminds me of something worth mentioning: The Grandfather Clause.

In essence, just because something in the house does not meet today's code, they cannot make you change/upgrade it to the new code if it was done to the code at the time it was done.

That said, the grandfather clause does not make an illegal act legal; in other words, if some remodelng that was done in 1999 met the code current at that time, it's good to go. On the other hand, if the 1999 work did not meet the 1999 code, they can make you change it.
 
We built, destroyed/remodeled, remodeled in Wake, Harnett and Chatham for our own homes & wanted them done right.
In Wake, the inspector was obviously the class bully & still is.
Harnett was great, we ripped the roof off, raised the ceilings, added the rear deck as a room, turn gable roofing, replaced all the wiring, plumbing and insulation. The inspector informed us we could actually have done the work w/o permits.
Last year we built in Chatham, we were informed the inspector Tim was the biggest PITA in all the nearby counties. We found him to be very professional and helpful.
I ask for ideas and look to them as inexpensive consultants since I only play a GC at home.
If you do add on, ins won't cover it for you or the buyer if permits weren't pulled.
 
This reminds me of something worth mentioning: The Grandfather Clause.

In essence, just because something in the house does not meet today's code, they cannot make you change/upgrade it to the new code if it was done to the code at the time it was done.

That said, the grandfather clause does not make an illegal act legal; in other words, if some remodelng that was done in 1999 met the code current at that time, it's good to go. On the other hand, if the 1999 work did not meet the 1999 code, they can make you change it.
Exactly.
 
I’m sure building department would take a permit for each of the things you’ve listed. The only things that “need a permit are things that generally fall into these categories:
- something that is typically identifiable on tax records, such as additions or taxable things (decks, fireplaces, etc.). Pull up your property tax record and look at how much it shows. For instance, if you’re a 4/2 house, and you add a 5th bedroom, the tax records won’t line up if you didn’t pull a permit. A realtor worth half their weight would notice that and it would certainly ping on their assessment/offer.
- something that may affect safety and well-being, such as gas work, significant electrical, major plumbing.
- I’ve been told a rule of thumb is any structural work that exceeds 12’ in any direction.

Building codes are like laws—they’re not made for the common man to read. There are very few building departments that will give a layman’s list of when things are required and when not. They always want you to “play it safe” and come in to ask.

On a serious note, you could always play phone tag with a dept. rep and ask them. Every once in a while you can get a human who understands where you’re coming from and will answer your questions.

In my opinion, your work that you mentioned in the OP would go as follows:
1. Switch-a-roo of the existing closet: no permit. Even with the outlets and smoke detector. As long as you or your contractor is competent enough, this is one of those things that own’t ping on tax records. Because it’s so minor. Just make sure the smoke detector works, otherwise they’ll hit you on the home inspection.
2. Building a new closet: no permit. This will technically add a new bedroom to your room count (if it doesn’t already have a closet), but its nothing structural and likely no electrical or plumbing. As long as you’re keeping walkway clearances and not making a quirky geometry to get in/out of the room, you’ll be alright.
3. Gas fireplace: if it was originally a gas fireplace and you just took the old log unit out, and are wanting to put a new one in, no permit. Might certainly be worthwhile to have someone in the know take a look at everything. This should already be on your tax record.
4. Adding a new gas fireplace: I’d say “maybe.” This is one I’d call the building department and talk about. Don’t give your name or address (they’re not the FBI, they won’t be tracking your phone call). Just try to have a normal human conversation with the person. Make small talk, get on their good side. Make them really understand that you’re just Joe homeowner trying to make his place a little nicer. This will go a long way if you play it right.
5. Undercabinet lighting: no permit. This is out of the box stuff from Amazon. Which, by the way, I’ve used some excellent LED kits from Amazon, if you need a reference. Even if you’re hard-wiring it into a switch, I wouldn’t ge a permit.
6. Recessed lighting: no permit. We had some put in this past summer by a highly reputable electrician. He said with no uncertainty that it does not require a permit. And mine were sort of difficult to put in too.

I forgot one other permit trigger: there’s usually a dollar threshold of the improvements. I think it’s usually like $20k and above needs a permit. May vary by locale.
 
This reminds me of something worth mentioning: The Grandfather Clause.

In essence, just because something in the house does not meet today's code, they cannot make you change/upgrade it to the new code if it was done to the code at the time it was done.

If “they” is the inspector then I believe that this is true as long as you don’t touch it, especially for electrical. If you add an outlet in the bathroom for example you will have to bring that entire circuit up to code, probably changing to the newer breaker. At least it is this way in Union county. Doesn’t hurt to call a couple guys for quotes.
 
Ok, since @fieldgrade isn't around very often anymore I'll do my best to fill in.

"Yes, you neeed a permit for everything since those damn Yankees have been moving down here and changing all our laws. If they touch our nanner puddin' then we're hoisting the jolly roger and going to battle."
 
Ok, since @fieldgrade isn't around very often anymore I'll do my best to fill in.

"Yes, you neeed a permit for everything since those damn Yankees have been moving down here and changing all our laws. If they touch our nanner puddin' then we're hoisting the jolly roger and going to battle."
And I'll add...

I95 North. Use it!


DS

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Personally I find people who don’t pull permits end up with costly issues in the end. If something goes wrong and the insurance company finds out you will get nothing. House goes up in flames, you’re a in debt renter. Subcontractors who don’t pull permits don’t care whether it’s done right and cut corners. Codes and inspections are for your safety. They are not assholes because they enjoy it, they are helping you.

Plus real estate laws require full disclosure of facts. You lie they can come back and make you pay for it. I know because I sued a seller and agent that lied and I won without a lawyer.

Any alteration of the existing electrical requires a permit anywhere in NC. Adding or moving circuits or adding lights is an alteration of the system. Even adding one receptacle requires a permit. The gas line for a new fireplace will require a gas line distribution calculation so you will not starve other appliances. The entire line might need to be increased in size for the input btu required. Last weak a guy had a on the side worker put in an on demand gas water heater in the place of a tank heater. Never worked. Now he puts a tank heater beside it back so he has hot water. So he has to repipe the entire house line size before putting the on demand heater back on line. Hire a pro.

As a licensed plumber, licensed commercial refrigeration contractor, licensed HVAC contractor, licensed electrician, I see more damaged homes that cost big money by people trying to get around inspections. This how poor people continue to remain poor. You sell the house, neighbor tells them about a change in the structure, house has a problem, they check the county for recent permits- and if they want you to pay for it, you will pay.

Real estate agents are legally obligated to disclose any changes in the structure not at the county offices.
 
I'm not pulling a permit to add a 240 receptacle when the box is on the other side of the wall.
 
but you stated




I added a circuit from the breaker box, it was my last open circuit to...:(
I don’t do minor changes so I am in compliance. No money in moving a recepticle. There is no electrical police. Do what you want to, I’m just stating the facts. The only real electricians are those that hold a license. Everyone else is by definition a electrician helper or has a jouneyman certificate.
 
I would get permitting for the gas piping addition. If there is piping there for the gas logs in the other fireplace then no need to have it inspected by the city again for another $xxx charge.
If youre not adding square footage than its usually a non issue. The electrical, hire an electrician to do it but dont get the absolute bottom of that barrel person. At least check reviews and such for them.
 
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