Do I really need to spend huge $$ on rings/base??

When I was selling and installing scopes, I came across a wide variety of set-ups, from two-piece bases to rails machined into the receiver. After installing probably 50 scopes, I learned not to assume that anything is aligned and installed properly, unless I did it my self. More often than not, I lapped the rings as a final step. Even with rails and tactical rings, the lapping process always reveals some imperfection in the final alignment. Why? Because either the rail is not straight as installed, or the rings are not fully machined and therefore have poor mating surfaces (most DIYer’s can’t tell the difference between extruded and machined rings). The base-to-receiver interface is definitely a weak point.

If the rail is machined into the receiver and the rail is properly deburred, or a good gunsmith installed the base properly (i.e., epoxy bedded, with no torque on the base screws during epoxy set), then the alignment of fully machined tactical rings should be good enough. Notice that I just described a high end set-up.

I found that most DIY rail installations produced crooked rails, especially on Remington 700 receivers. That’s because most of the YouTube videos are incorrect. Rail installation on fully tubular receivers (e.g. Savage) is usually straight, but I always lap anyway because the rail could be torqued either during manufacture or installation for a variety of reasons.

FYI, you don’t need fancy tools to confirm good ring alignment. A steel ruler and a flashlight usually suffice. Because I have the fancy tools and lapping bars, naturally I use them when in doubt, which is 95% of the time.

Other lessons learned:
1. Never use Chinese rings, except for Burris products. Aside from the poor QC, most Chinese machine screws suck.
2. Always use a good torque wrench, set to the recommended torque value for each screw.
3. Always use Blue Loctite on base and ring screws (not rail cross bolts, of course).
4. Always check the receiver bolt torque as a courtesy. Many problems with large groups are due to loose action screws.
5. Always do an optical boresight alignment after installing the scope. >95% of the time that gets the shots on paper at 100 yds.
6. Lapping the rings essentially turns a marginal set-up into a perfectly aligned set-up. The cost savings is not only in the parts, but also in labor if the alternative is having the rifle manufacturer or gunsmith do the rail installation. If you’re only doing one installation, then I recommend having a good gunsmith do it. If you plan on doing it more than once, then the cost of the lapping bars is probably warranted.
 
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5. Always do an optical boresight alignment after installing the scope. >95% of the time that gets the shots on paper at 100 yds.

Also, many shooters overlook the fact that an AR Platform Rifle can be visually bore sighted by dropping the lower and removing the BCG and just look through the barrel.

If anyone insist on using a laser bore sight tool , check it to see if it is true before using it.

For the cartridge type roll it on a flat surface and watch the laser on a wall as the laser should track straight and if it resembles anything but a straight line don't use it.

Other type is below.



 
I dislike the laser boresighters. The spud attachments are plastic and don’t center the spud very well in the bore. The cartridge type are caliber specific and are also not very accurate. None of them are visible in bright daylight without a reflective target. That means you have to run down range to mount the reflective target on a stand, boresight the scope, and then run back down range to retrieve the reflective target. That’s a big hassle.

I prefer the Bushnell Professional Boresighter. Sighting down the bore works fine if the receiver allows it. Pretty awkward with AR pattern rifles, but it can be done. Not possible with lever actions, M1, Mini-14, etc.

Barrel vibration will usually shift the point of impact away from the bore axis, but not by more than ~6 MOA in most cases - good enough to get on paper with the first shot at 100 yds.
 
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I thought I was doing myself a favor by not being cheap when I ordered rings for my newest rifle. But now I have doubt in my mind thanks to this thread. Anyone near Rock Hill/South Charlotte have alignment bars and a lapping bar & compound for a 30mm tube I can borrow?!
 
I thought I was doing myself a favor by not being cheap when I ordered rings for my newest rifle. But now I have doubt in my mind thanks to this thread. Anyone near Rock Hill/South Charlotte have alignment bars and a lapping bar & compound for a 30mm tube I can borrow?!

There's positively no need with higher quality rings/base/scope combos. Call Mark @ Accurate Ordance..He'll tell ya.
 
Warne 20 moa base and seekins rings.... avoid any of the QD mounts... they are a solution looking for a problem... they end up sitting on one rifle and stay there.
 
I thought I was doing myself a favor by not being cheap when I ordered rings for my newest rifle. But now I have doubt in my mind thanks to this thread. Anyone near Rock Hill/South Charlotte have alignment bars and a lapping bar & compound for a 30mm tube I can borrow?!
Skip the lapping mess. Buy quality and mount to proper torque specs.
 
Lapping absolutely can help. Whether it eeks out that extra point whatever MOA at 1,200 yards is debatable. For many shooters it is the law of diminishing returns. Personally, a lapped set-up isn't going to help me significantly, so to me it's not worth it. For good shooters who wring out precision, maybe.

Higher quality rings and base absolutely can help. Do you need the most expensive? No. Do you need NcSTAR? No.
 
The base-to-receiver interface is definitely a weak point.

I paid $1,600 for a Springfield Armory M1A and the base to receiver interface is so skewed that I'm still 3" high at 100 yards and I'm at the extreme end of vertical travel even after I shimmed the mount. The setup is workable since the zero range is 300 yards so I have the full vertical adjustment for elevation but I don't think a little more "measure twice, cut once" mentality is asking too much.

As others have said, trust but verify.
 
I bought a set of the vortex precision machined rings, and a zero moa scope base from Evolution Gun Works to go on my new CZ455. Im not into matches or anything like that, just want a nice little varmint killer.
 
Nice article on not lapping on the Warne blog

https://warnescopemounts.com/is-lapping-needed/

This blog article is specific to vertically split rings, which Warne sells. If you’ve ever tried to lap vertically split rings while they are clamped to the base rail, you would understand why the author says that lapping is not recommended. It’s a royal PITA!
However the author is not telling you that the finish on Warne mounts isn’t always even. The rings are machined steel, but the finish on the lower priced rings appears to be paint. Sometimes it beads up around the corners, which can leave high spots where the ring mates to the scope tube.
How do you get rid of the high spots? You guessed it, you lap the rings. Except in this case you can simply lap each half by running it back and forth across the lapping bar. Only lap enough to remove any high spots on the paint.
Then, if the base is installed straight, the rings will be properly aligned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Even thought the OP fell out of this conversation some time ago...I use EGW bases and TPS rings most of the time but I have rung steel with a 20" bbl Rem 700 out to 1000yds with a Leupold LR base and Leupold rings. I do use the Weaver or Wheeler alignment bars and a Fat Wrench torque wrench.
Here is linky to Brownells torque specs. If 14 or 15 inch pounds will hold your scope in place, use that. It is very easy to squeeze or crush a scope tube to where the internals won't move properly.
 
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