Do not think that I have ever shot a 45 LC.

Discussion in 'Lever Guns and other cowboy rifles' started by KnotRight, May 30, 2019.

  1. KnotRight

    KnotRight Well-Known Member Charter Member Benefactor Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    2,885
    Likes Received:
    3,165
    Location:
    Savannah, GA
    Back about a year ago I bought a Ruger Single Action 45 LC & 9 MM combo that I have not shot. I am waiting to get a lever action 45 LC to go along with the flow. I have loaded a 100 - 150 rounds and have no idea how they will shot and not really sure where this caliber fit into the scheme of a handgun and rifle. Such as 44 Specials and 44 Magnums. How much difference is need in loading for the handgun vs the rifle. I am trying to figure some of the equation using 38 Special and 357 Mag as well as 44 Specials and 44 Mag in handguns vs rifles.
    I do not want to go crazy buying a 45 LLC Lever action so I am thinking a Rossi 92 to go along
    with the ross in 38/357 and 44/44 mag.
    I have been looking around at some distributors if they have it in stock and most are showing the 44 mag rifle. Anybody out there want to get sell a 45 LC rifle? I really lucked up on the Rossi 357 new and starting to look hard for the 45 LC.
    I bought a set of RCBS dies and 500 Berry bullets to load. I think that I am into the box of bullets by 150 rounds. These were rn bullets. Any suggestions of weight, design work well in both a 16" rifle and a 5.5" revolver.
     
    Button Pusher likes this.
  2. Geezer

    Geezer Mama Tried Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    15,149
    Likes Received:
    65,743
    Location:
    Silsbee, TX - Formerly Conway SC
    I have no knowledge of the rifles, never shot one. But I have a couple of single actions in 45 Colt, a Colt 7 1/2 inch and a Great Western 4 3/4 inch. You're welcome to shoot these any time you're up this way. Billy can probably find something in 45 Colt, too. He has one that's all scratched up that I've lusted after since the first time I saw it.
     
    BatteryOaksBilly likes this.
  3. ronn47

    ronn47 Where's the Scotch? Charter Member Benefactor Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    4,289
    Likes Received:
    7,202
    Location:
    Heath Springs, SC
    Your combo would need to be 45 LC & 45 ACP or 357 & 9 MM.
     
  4. rantingredneck

    rantingredneck ....glutton for punishment..... Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    8,244
    Location:
    Alamance County, NC
    I like 255-260 grain bullets. I load pretty warm. 1250fps from the handgun and 1700 from the rifle. 20.1 grains of Lil Gun. Ruger convertible and Rossi 92. Also have an NEF single shot break action.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  5. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2019
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    2,297
    Location:
    Conway
    I love 45 Colt in my lever guns. It makes a dandy little bush and camp rifle. I have a quite a few 45 Colt lever guns, but my favorite is the 16 inch M94. In 2005 South Africa passed new firearms laws, making it illegal for visitors to have, or carry a handgun, except for hunting. And to get a permit for hunting with a handgun was way more trouble than it was worth. In all years past, I could carry any handgun I wanted, get my permit at the airport, and strap on when I got to the truck! Most of the time I carried either a 2 inch Taurus in 45 Colt, or a Kimber Ultra in 45 ACP. Those days came to an end in 2005.

    So now what? Ok, a short handy little 16 inch lever gun, in 45 Colt was the next best thing! While I could not carry it around town, I could keep it close by in the truck. It held 8 rounds, and if I could get hands on then I would be in great shape. So that is what I did for many years when traveling to Africa. And it was a great comfort in many settings.

    While out hunting, it made a damn fine camp gun too. It was always within arms reach when in camp.

    Since nearly all of my big bore handguns were 45 Colt as well, the little lever guns where right at home, and in a pinch could shoot some relatively heavy loads.

    Here is a photo of it and one of my handguns..........Nothing fancy at all, but mighty fine to tote around.

    [​IMG]

    Today I have it wired up and on the range, use it for a pressure gun testing 45 Colt loads. It will handle 45000 PSI without any issues.

    I have a few loads that will get your attention, a 150 gr CEB Raptor at 2284 fps at 40000 PSI..... Interesting for 45 Colt..........

    For a little more serious work for larger animals a 240 CEB Raptor at 1800 fps at 42500 PSI and 300 CEB Solids at 1500 fps at 44000 PSI...........

    One of my favorites is the 250 Gold Dots running a meek 1400 fps at 26000 PSI. This bullet expands and works very well at that velocity.

    45 Colt in a lever gun is mighty fine......... and of course, light loads are like shooting a fat 22lr. Cast bullets at 800-1000 fps are just plain fun...............
     
  6. KnotRight

    KnotRight Well-Known Member Charter Member Benefactor Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    2,885
    Likes Received:
    3,165
    Location:
    Savannah, GA
    Ronn you are 100% correct. It is the 45 ACP. Again it has never been shot.
     
    ronn47 likes this.
  7. JimB

    JimB Picking it up slowly. Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    6,830
    Likes Received:
    9,091
    Location:
    Waxhaw
    I have pistols and lever guns in both 45lc and 44mag, but I really can’t think of a situation where the 45 is the better solution, excepting the situation where something needs shooting and it happens to be what I have on hand.

    Anyone?
     
  8. GoWolfpack

    GoWolfpack Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,860
    Likes Received:
    2,979
    Location:
    Suffolk, VA (Formerly Rolesville and Tarboro, NC)

    Basically, yeah. 44 magnum was invented because 45 colt guns were too fragile to take full advantage of the available case capacity. 44 magnum and 45 colt are capable of the same things, but it's safer to do those things in the available platforms for 44 magnum.

    45 colt is for nostalgia.
     
  9. rantingredneck

    rantingredneck ....glutton for punishment..... Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    8,244
    Location:
    Alamance County, NC
    I'd rather handload hot .45s than shoot factory .44. Recoil and muzzleblast are a bit less obnoxious IMO.
     
    powwowell, Ikarus1 and Crazy Carl like this.
  10. Crunchy Frog

    Crunchy Frog Happy to be here

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2016
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    213
    Location:
    Greenville,SC
    Don’t overthink it. It’s a pistol caliber rifle and should be fine with any “in spec” load. If you a flirting with super light loads you could find that a round that works fine in a revolver may stick in the longer barrel of a rifle. Even above “possible squib” level a light loaded .45 Colt cartridge can cause “blowby” in a rifle, especially if you have a generous chamber. I am not suggesting dinosaur slayer loads either; find a happy medium.

    Lever action rifles can be particular about bullet shape (avoid SWC’s, a truncated cone flat point is often the best choice followed by a RNFP) and cartridge length. Load up a handful of test rounds to confirm feeding.
     
  11. Ikarus1

    Ikarus1 Avtomat Krishna-kov

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    10,345
    Likes Received:
    17,161
    Location:
    East of CLT
    .45 casul proves that the .45LC case can handle magnum-level loads if the firearm can. I have a Ruger flattop BH convertible and it's one of my current favorites. I especially love shooting my hardcast 255gr handloads, it throws 8-inch AR steel around like little tin cans.
     
  12. JimB

    JimB Picking it up slowly. Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    6,830
    Likes Received:
    9,091
    Location:
    Waxhaw
    And then there is the 460 mag, but the brass for both the 454 and 460 is thicker/heavier than the 45. Point is, the case may not handle the pressure, even in a pistol designed for the stouter cartridges. I wouldn’t load beyond 45lc pressures in 45lc brass. Of course I’m just a guy with an opinion, which is probably worth a little more than the opinion of a guy with fewer than 10 fingers.
     
  13. georgel

    georgel Behind Every Blade of Grass Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,644
    Likes Received:
    9,125
    Location:
    em95gc
    That's if you shoot old guns/gun designs and use factory ammo. IIRC with newer guns such as Rugers and modern levers and modern cases, the .45 Colt can surpass the .44mag in energy. New cases are no longer the weak original "balloon" style case heads and are strong as modern cases. But, I never load that high anyway. Just seem to remember reading that.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
    Ikarus1 likes this.
  14. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    11,933
    Likes Received:
    30,737
    Location:
    Conway, S.C.
    The 45 Colt and 9mm conversion would have been Far more interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    powwowell and JimB like this.
  15. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    11,933
    Likes Received:
    30,737
    Location:
    Conway, S.C.
    45 Colt cases can take 45K Plus pressures...454 Casul normal operating pressures is 60,000+++ So is S&W 500. Dick Casull was firstest with the mostest in the 1950s.

    Ross Seifried once sent some 45 Colt cases to SS White to be tested. They tested them to 52,000 and sent them back with a Full Go on any project.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
    Ikarus1 and Crazy Carl like this.
  16. Crazy Carl

    Crazy Carl seriously? Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    10,089
    Location:
    Alamance County
    This. I love my .41Mags, but @rantingredneck 's hot .45s are more pleasant to shoot from his alloy grip framed, 5.5" Blackhawk than my 240gr @ 1300fps .41s from my heavier, stainless steel 6.5" Blackhawk. Wind up a .41 or .44 with a Ruger XR3-RED grip frame & it's gonna kick the crap outta you & dig that grip frame hard into your palm. With the .45, it's much more gentle, insistent shove & the gun rolls nicely upward with recoil.

    The Super Blackhawk grip frame does a better job controlling recoil for me, though that squared off trigger guard gets some folks. Better still are their Bisley grip frames. That 240gr/1300fps load is miserable in my 6.5" Blackhawk, but is all day comfortable in my 5.5" Bisley & practically feels like .38Spcl in my 7.5" Bisley Hunter.

    There are 8 .45LC Rossis on GB right now in both 16" & 20".
     
    BatteryOaksBilly likes this.
  17. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2019
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    2,297
    Location:
    Conway
    There are several different levels of handguns to be concerned about with 45 Colt. Low Pressure Guns would be any of the Single Action Army guns and small light Taurus guns. These should be kept at less than 18000 PSI. Next step up is S&W N Frames kept at 25000 PSI, Colt Anacondas and Dan Wessons to 30000 PSI, Ruger Redhawks-Blackhawks I suppose too and lever guns to 40000-45000 PSI, and big Redhawks 50000+, whatever the brass would handle the Redhawk will. These have been rules of thumb that I have lived by with 45 Colt and many 1000s of rounds. When you get too much above 45000 PSI the brass starts showing it.

    Kinda makes it mandatory you Label Your 45 Colt ammo properly................ Especially the heavy loads. But, you can do that by the bullet as well. I know any cast load I have is 18000 PSI or less....... Other things I have to label proper..........
     
    BatteryOaksBilly, KnotRight and JimB like this.
  18. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2019
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    2,297
    Location:
    Conway
    But this is about Lever guns, and there are lots of loads that are very effective way below 45000 PSI. Something else to consider, even in a lever gun, 45 Colt is still a handgun cartridge, and will not and cannot compare
    to a rifle cartridge in its capability to take large game, or even medium game..........

    A little lever gun like the M94 in 45 Colt does make a mighty fine little Assault Rifle.... LOL.....................And its not "Black" all over............ meaning it might go "underestimated" by those not in the know............Nice Home Defense
    gun too..........
     
    Crazy Carl likes this.
  19. KnotRight

    KnotRight Well-Known Member Charter Member Benefactor Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    2,885
    Likes Received:
    3,165
    Location:
    Savannah, GA
    I can not agree more about the square trigger guard on the 44 SBH. It hurts like hell. I have gone through 4 or 5 different grips. Put a set of oversized wood grips that helped, then I saw Ruger had a set of rubber grips that filled in that gap. They are on the gun but have not shot it.

    I am hoping that the Ruger 45 LC does not have that problem. IT does not have a square trigger guard.
     
    Crazy Carl likes this.
  20. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    11,933
    Likes Received:
    30,737
    Location:
    Conway, S.C.
    The Colonel referred to them as Urban Assault Rifles. He like them in all calibers.
    I will tell ya'll That Michael is the only person I have ever seen that can operate these guns almost as fast as the SASS folks do BUT with loads that mean Business.
     
  21. Crazy Carl

    Crazy Carl seriously? Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    10,089
    Location:
    Alamance County
    I've big ol' mitts & there ain't no room for the trigger guard to get a running start at my knuckle, so it's really a non-issue for me. I still prefer the Bisley, though.

    Never underestimate what can be done with a levergun. Many moons ago, I showed up at a rimfire steels match with a '59 Marlin 39A & a Ruger Single Ten. On the rifle stages, I was turning in faster times with my trusty old Marlin than a number of the AR-22 & 10/22 guys. 8-9 rds of .45 Colt in a handy little 16" package can lay down some serious firepower & quickly.
     
  22. Crazy Carl

    Crazy Carl seriously? Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    10,089
    Location:
    Alamance County
    That is impressive. I'm not SASS fast with a levergun, even with just a .22lr. Don't think I wanna find out how quick I could run my .45-70 Guide Gun with gobstoppers.
     
  23. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2019
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    2,297
    Location:
    Conway
    Yes....... I concur................

    You would surprise yourself if you had something out there that bites back just how damn fast you can run that lever.........
     
    Crazy Carl and KnotRight like this.
  24. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    11,933
    Likes Received:
    30,737
    Location:
    Conway, S.C.
    Michael won't tell ya'll this but he shot a buffalo [American Bison] so many times so fast with a Big Bore lever that the guide almost ran for cover. he said he had never seen anybody shoot a rifle so fast in all his life. Mr. Buff fell over DRT.
     
    Crazy Carl likes this.
  25. KnotRight

    KnotRight Well-Known Member Charter Member Benefactor Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    2,885
    Likes Received:
    3,165
    Location:
    Savannah, GA
    Crazy Carl, I have a 1961 39A Mountie and love it!
     
    Crazy Carl likes this.
  26. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2019
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    2,297
    Location:
    Conway
    Ammo is heavy, I don' t see any reason in the world to tote it back home, shoot the stuff up........Hell I didn't go all that way to shoot one time..........LOL
     
    Ikarus1, Papermaker, JimB and 3 others like this.