Encounter at the ATM

[S4f]

Stopped at the cash points ATM to take some cash out of my credit union, the ATM is to low to operate from the window of my truck, so I park about the width of the.drivers door away, so when I leave the drivers door open it block's off access to me from that side, I'm not carrying on my person on work days so I lay my.pistol on the seat of the truck, just as the ATM dispensed the money, I hear shoes crunching on the asphalt of the parking lot, look to my left and see what I can only describe as a crackhead in a dead Sprint coming at me, in one motion I slide step back to the truck and get my pistol in my hand and pop the back door open on my truck just enough to give me cover,by this point he's at the back of the truck even with the tailgate, and slams on the brakes . He said, first thing I'll tell you is you don't need that gun,( he can't see the gun it's blocked from his view by the rear door), I replied,well it's a comfort to me so I'll just hold on to it if you don't mind, he said I was looking for work and just wanted to ask if you knew any one that was hiring , no, try the want ads I replied , he said I'll tell you again you.dont need that gun, you come rolling up on me at the ATM and I don't know you from Adam, like I said it's a comfort to me so I'm gonna hold on to it, now the best thing you can do is get the ( insert curse word here) out of here, he started to say something else, thought better of it and took of in a Sprint in the direction he came, the only thing I did right was get armed and grab cover, I was encouraged to go file a police report, but the guy kept both hands jammed in the pockets of his coat and that's where my focus was, we where 10 feet apart and I couldn't describe him to you, except he was skinny and had on a coat not.even sure of the color.

 

[VA_GENTLEMAN]

90% Probability of Criminal Intent
100% Appropriate Response... Excellent Head on Swivel and taking the momentum away from the stranger.

Normal people know not to run up on someone at an ATM; this was not a normal person. Criminals and those with ill will against a non-aggressor are not normal.

 

[S4f]

My question to the forum is did I over react, under react, personally I think I should never allowed him to engage me in conversation, though short it took my focus away from what was going on behind me, you think you'll handle things differently, but I wasn't studying his features to give an accurate description to law enforcement, I was fighting the adrenaline rush, weighing the legalities of what might happen of it went bad all in nano seconds, while try to stay calm enough to deal with the situation,

 

[Geezer]

The outcome was good so your tactic worked. That's all that matters.

When I'm out in public, I'm always looking left, looking right, looking behind me. I watch people and hardly ever see anyone checking their surroundings. I see a lot of people that would be easy victims. My wife would be one of them. She pays absolutely no attention to who or what is around her.

 

[wvsig]

I agree with Geezer situational awareness is always key especially at an ATM. I personally hate using ones that are outdoors. I prefer ones inside a building or lobby. They are much less exposed.

You might consider a inexpensive paddle holster for that truck gun. That way in situations like this you can simply slip the paddle holster on and not have to get back to the truck. Not a fan of paddle holsters for daily carry but for your situation it might be the ticket.

Otherwise it seems as if you handled the situation well enough.

 

[VA_GENTLEMAN]

My question to the forum is did I over react, under react, personally I think I should never allowed him to engage me in conversation, though short it took my focus away from what was going on behind me, you think you'll handle things differently, but I wasn't studying his features to give an accurate description to law enforcement, I was fighting the adrenaline rush, weighing the legalities of what might happen of it went bad all in nano seconds, while try to stay calm enough to deal with the situation,

You did it right.

I suspect that the thoughts in your head that clouded your ability to take inventory of the coat color, height, weight, etc.. will not be as fierce if there is a next time. This event is now part of your experience and it will recall quickly and guide your actions.

 

[Grits]

Think about this. He chose that ATM because it's low height presents a target of opportunity because it distracts the person withdrawing money.

I bet he has hit this ATM before or one similar.

Good for you. Head on a swivel. Next time choose a different ATM.

I would inform police to make them aware. I would also talk to the banks home office loss prevention people about the personal safety issue using such a low ATM and your experience.

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[Brangus]

Think about this. He chose that ATM because it's low height presents a target of opportunity because it distracts the person withdrawing money.

I bet he has hit this ATM before or one similar.

Good for you. Head on a swivel. Next time choose a different ATM.

I would inform police to make them aware. I would also talk to the banks home office loss prevention people about the personal safety issue using such a low ATM and your experience.

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Agreed. And let the bank's security people know about this event asap so they can pull up any video that will help them identify this guy. Most likely he will prey on an unsuspecting female or senior adult. Either way he needs to be confronted by his actions if they determine that he is a problem character. And reporting this may very well save someone's life or prevent them from having to take deadly action due to his activities.

I'd almost guarantee you that he frequents this and other ATM locations and will be seen in the video histories.

 

[DurhamDad]

Effective response... You deterred the threat. Maybe next time it is just 'Leave me alone' or 'Go away' but what you said makes sense.

Maybe the bank has some security cam footage for the police.

 

[wvsig]

Think about this. He chose that ATM because it's low height presents a target of opportunity because it distracts the person withdrawing money.

I bet he has hit this ATM before or one similar.

Good for you. Head on a swivel. Next time choose a different ATM.

I would inform police to make them aware. I would also talk to the banks home office loss prevention people about the personal safety issue using such a low ATM and your experience.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk

The bank may have footage but from my time working at Banks I know they do not keep the footage for very long. Lots of the systems erase and tape over older footage because of storage issues. Also many banks and other organizations will not hand over footage without a formal investigate and a warrant. Lots of privacy issues at play. Since no crime was committed the bank might not be willing or able to turn over the footage.

 

[Catfish]

I think you handled it very well but it you’re looking for armchair analysis I don’t think I would have liked to be boxed in like that or to carry off body. But since you had to get out leaving the truck close and ready was a good idea.

 

[12151791]

Good situational awareness. Better safe than sorry.

I don’t use ATM, they can be hacked. I get whatever cash I need for a month or so from the teller and keep it in the safe - only carry what I neeed for a week. I buy most stuff online anyway using a random number generated by Citibank credit card website. I buy gift cards for filling up the vehicles and usually get up to 20% discount at Publix with only $50 in groceries purchase.

 

[Jerzsubbie]

I'd say you handled it very well, definitely not an over reaction. The only things I think you did wrong were not notice him sooner and allow him to get only 10ft away, but clearly your reaction and demeanor let him know that you knew he was there, it's probably not a good idea to come any closer, and you are not the easy target he thought you might be. ATMs and gas pumps are tricky situations, you have money in hand, limited line of sight, and limited escapes.

I had a similar incident at a SECU drive up ATM that I posted about probably a 1.5yr ago, just without the conversation.

Personally, spotting a potential threat from a distance (50ft+) and making yourself appear as anything more than a soft target are your best defenses. The gun is your insurance policy, if you will. Also remember that your vehicle is a weapon too.

 

[Jerzsubbie]

The outcome was good so your tactic worked. That's all that matters.

When I'm out in public, I'm always looking left, looking right, looking behind me. I watch people and hardly ever see anyone checking their surroundings. I see a lot of people that would be easy victims. My wife would be one of them. She pays absolutely no attention to who or what is around her.

Same here with regards to constantly looking around and the wife being oblivious/in her phone. I'm also sure to use reflections in storefront windows, or nearby car windows when walking in a parking garage/lot.
I believe that most criminals will notice that you're alert and simply choose someone else who is lost in their phone or in conversation.

 

[Sneakymedic]

10 ft is just fine, I can get lots of bullets in somebody that close LOL

 

[.EC.]

"You don't need that gun..."


Famous last words.

 

[J R Green]

I think you handled that near perfectly and I don't like anything (so they say) so are that for what it's worth. It's not your job but the only thing I would have liked to see was if you had introduced him to the police. You never know if he already hasn't done the grab-n-run with other folks there.

 

[Mitch Rapp]

My question to the forum is did I over react, under react, personally I think I should never allowed him to engage me in conversation, though short it took my focus away from what was going on behind me, you think you'll handle things differently, but I wasn't studying his features to give an accurate description to law enforcement, I was fighting the adrenaline rush, weighing the legalities of what might happen of it went bad all in nano seconds, while try to stay calm enough to deal with the situation,

My $.02 on it are worth less than a penny, but here is my take:

Exactly the correct response and appropriate level of escalation based on your account of the events.

As far as doing anything different, that's hard to monday morning quarterback. While they may initiate with similar, common elements, each and every situation like this ever encountered is fluid, evolves in its own way, and depends on many factors specific to that instance. Since nothing is ever truly perfect, I would say this was handled as perfectly as it could be IN THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE.
Don't read too many 'what ifs' into this. What ifs are a very deep rabbit hole that many people get too caught up in. It is virtually impossible to predict how any action taken will influence the outcome of a dynamic situation.
IF it happens again, and I sincerely hope it never does, your respone may be similar or it may be drastically different. But, that response will be based on a different set of factors unique to a seperate scenario.

Take heart in the fact that:
1) you prepped the 'battlefield' as correctly as you could, i.e. truck door upon initial vehicle dismount, readying defensive tools, vigilance with more than just the eyes.
2) when a threat manifested, you acted without hesitation. Your OODA loop is on point, sir.
3) YOU WENT HOME UNHARMED

I cannot stress that last one enough. And THAT is the only thing that matters.

 

[Button Pusher]

100% agree with your actions. You kept low ready, did not show your weapon to the stranger. You went home and no shots fired.

I avoid banks, worked 15 years inside one, I also avoid the ATM, I get $20 cash back when at supermarket
or at p/t job at home depot self checkouts.

Police will follow up with credit union for video. If this was stand alone ATM they will keep the video a while.

Similar thing happened to my coworker, crackhead grabbed the truck door as he just got inside the truck,
he pulls door open and tells him to give it up, "The only thing you're getting today is hollow points"! 686+ S&W 4" Stainless.
The dude froze and wet his pants. 911 was called and the guy had warrants plus car jacking. Happy ending.

 

[Grits]

Since no crime was committed the bank might not be willing or able to turn over the footage.

Only.reason a crime wasn't committed was to the OP being aware.

I deal with dirt bags daily. They are always looking for opportunities. I had a customer yesterday try and stiff me. He handed me a stack of one dollar bills to pay for his order. He played with them before handing them to me. I always count all money. He had enough but was trying to see if i would just shove the bills in the drawer and give him his change. He had to give me the three one dollar bills that he was keeping back.

They all have a script they use until they bump imto somebody that is a little wiser than them.


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[S4f]

Few things I wanted to add, there's a ATM for cash points that s out in the open and yards away from a busy highway a mile and a half in the opposite direction that I travel,I always considered it an inconvenience to use it, not anymore. I am wondering if I left a criminal on the streets to try and Rob someone else so I will go to the credit union Tuesday an tell my tale..

 

[wvsig]

Only.reason a crime wasn't committed was to the OP being aware.

I deal with dirt bags daily. They are always looking for opportunities. I had a customer yesterday try and stiff me. He handed me a stack of one dollar bills to pay for his order. He played with them before handing them to me. I always count all money. He had enough but was trying to see if i would just shove the bills in the drawer and give him his change. He had to give me the three one dollar bills that he was keeping back.

They all have a script they use until they bump imto somebody that is a little wiser than them.


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Still no crime was committed. The OP was 100% justified in his actions but honestly we have no idea what the "real" intentions of the guy who approached the OP was. Were you there? Did you read his mind over Internet? You have ZERO facts to back up your idea that a crime was certain and imminent. Some people are just stupid and do not know how to act. Others people have mental problems which prevent them from adhering to or understanding social norms. Drugs or alcohol could have been in the mix. All of theses could explain the behaviors displayed and none of the them are criminal in nature.

Again I am not saying that the OP was not justified in his response. He was 100% justified and I believe he acted correctly but there are always 2 sides to every story and we only have one side. I am happy it was resolved without anyone getting hurt. If I was putting a % on it I would guess 65%-35% that the guy had ill intent but that does not change the outcome.

If the OP calls the police they are going not going to arrest the guy. They are not going to take him into custody because nothing happened. Yes the OP helped himself and acted correctly IMHO but to say that a crime was a certainty is a bit of a stretch. A business is not necessarily going to open up their surveillance video for everything that could have been a crime. Every business I have ever worked at including banks would not give up any security video unless there is a police report and a warrant or subpoena.

 

[Mitch Rapp]

Another random thought...this is exactly the type of DGU that doesn't show in crime statistics and leftists vehemently claim rarely happens.
Those of us living in the real world know better. WE know that had you not been armed, the police were too far away to be of any help and the outcome could have been drastically diffetent. Ranging from simply losing some cash to possibly a trip to the hospital or even a scenario involving a chalk outline.
Darn their feelings, I'm glad you went home safe.

 

[Get Off My Lawn]

My question to the forum is did I over react, under react, personally I think I should never allowed him to engage me in conversation, though short it took my focus away from what was going on behind me, you think you'll handle things differently, but I wasn't studying his features to give an accurate description to law enforcement, I was fighting the adrenaline rush, weighing the legalities of what might happen of it went bad all in nano seconds, while try to stay calm enough to deal with the situation,

Hindsight's 20/20 and I'm an excellent back seat driver.
It seems you handled the scenario quite well. We're glad you both walked away unscathed.
Thanks for sharing & reminding us to keep our heads on a swivel.

 

[Alfred]

Well done.

"Just looking for work" is probably a test of your sympathies/ defenses, an engage in conversation and distract tactic once he saw you were reacting. Sad thing is there are a lot of people who would fall for that total BS and the weasel knows it. I am always on high alert at ATMs and scan mirrors, window reflections, any movement and anything odd. Anyone following me out of the ATM driveway, etc.

Maybe paranoid buy it gives me something to do.

 

[Mike V]

First, thanks for sharing. A learning experience for all of us. Second, glad it went well and there was no escalation that would have resulted in a bad time for all involved.

Lastly, and just food for thought since I was not there, I'd like to think I would not have engaged once he stopped at the back of the truck. We have all read of too many situations where there were multiple bad guys and once he got your attention by getting you to engage in discussion, as brief as it was, you may have been distracted enough to have let one or two other guys get the advantage on you, from behind or laterally, while you were outside of the truck. In the truck, lock doors, maybe open window a bit in case you have to use the gun.

 

[Slosolo2]

ATM likely has video. You might not remember what he looked like but the video will. If I were the branch manager at the Credit Union I'd want the guy stopped.
I'd still call the police and just let them know that he's doing that so they can swing a patrol by more often or look at the video. I'll bet they know him.
If you got your receipt that will help them with the exact time to look at on the video.
Getting the second door deployed was good thinking and I don't think you overreacted to someone running at you while you're at an atm.

 

[Prosecutor]

Stopped at the cash points ATM to take some cash out of my credit union, the ATM is to low to operate from the window of my truck, so I park about the width of the.drivers door away, so when I leave the drivers door open it block's off access to me from that side, I'm not carrying on my person on work days so I lay my.pistol on the seat of the truck, just as the ATM dispensed the money, I hear shoes crunching on the asphalt of the parking lot, look to my left and see what I can only describe as a crackhead in a dead Sprint coming at me, in one motion I slide step back to the truck and get my pistol in my hand and pop the back door open on my truck just enough to give me cover,by this point he's at the back of the truck even with the tailgate, and slams on the brakes . He said, first thing I'll tell you is you don't need that gun,( he can't see the gun it's blocked from his view by the rear door), I replied,well it's a comfort to me so I'll just hold on to it if you don't mind, he said I was looking for work and just wanted to ask if you knew any one that was hiring , no, try the want ads I replied , he said I'll tell you again you.dont need that gun, you come rolling up on me at the ATM and I don't know you from Adam, like I said it's a comfort to me so I'm gonna hold on to it, now the best thing you can do is get the ( insert curse word here) out of here, he started to say something else, thought better of it and took of in a Sprint in the direction he came, the only thing I did right was get armed and grab cover, I was encouraged to go file a police report, but the guy kept both hands jammed in the pockets of his coat and that's where my focus was, we where 10 feet apart and I couldn't describe him to you, except he was skinny and had on a coat not.even sure of the color.

Yet, somehow he managed to steal your paragraphs.


Joking aside, I think that you quickly and correctly assessed the situation. That guy was not so enthusiastic about a possible employment lead that he just had to run up on you at the ATM.

 

[Prosecutor]

ATM (particularly drive up) and gas pump robberies are common. Close proximity to the machine limits visibility, it takes some degree of attention to work the machine, and you already have wallet out.

Hard to manage an ATM. Just make smart choices about when, where, and how it is used. Like the OP....keep an eye open. For remote gas pumps at night, I recommend starting the gas flow and then taking a step back, walk around a bit, keep an eye out for anyone approaching the other side of our car or pump. Look for multiples approaching from different sides. Saw this one a lot.

Remote public restrooms are a problem too. Quite a few robberies at urinals. Imagine, standing there taking a leak and having somebody bust you in the back of the head. It happens. I've seen this one one professionally and had it happen to a friend. Keep alert.

Also, watch out for folks asking BS questions to distract you while others approach or get into your car. A common scheme was to have criminal #1 engage a gas pumper in conversation while criminal #2 quietly opened the passenger car door and took the purse or other items. Lock the door while pumping gas.

EDIT: Okay, last time that I will add to this post. Remember, there are some folks out there who don't give a crap about you or any human life. They will split your head for pocket change and then laugh about it...never once feeling discomfort or remorse.

 

[Mitch Rapp]

Remember, there are some folks out there who don't give a crap about you or any human life. They will split your head for pocket change and then laugh about it...never once feeling discomfort or remorse.

Unfortunately, Ive ran across a couple of these people in my life.
Have some scars from one as a reminder.
My best friend made the other one eat his meals through a straw.

Head on a swivel, folks...

 

[MostWanted]

I'd say that Mr. Bad Guy should be thankful every day he wakes up that he is still alive. If he had given you any reason at all to think he was about to assault you, or enter your truck, or force you out of your truck, then NC's Castle Doctrine would kick in. There would be a presumption there was an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm. Assuming you didn't do anything to escalate the situation, it would be a pretty clear case of defensive gun use.

What I've resolved in reading this, is that I not only need to be aware, I need to scope the situation out upon arriving, have a concrete plan in place before I stop, and make sure I respond clearly and assertively to anyone who approaches me (as you did).

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

My question to the forum is did I over react, under react..

Here's what you posted that seems key to me:

...just as the ATM dispensed the money, I hear shoes crunching on the asphalt of the parking lot, look to my left and see what I can only describe as a crackhead in a dead Sprint coming at me...

Crackhead or not, it seems to me that ANYBODY that comes running at a dead sprint towards a person at a dispensing ATM is, at the very least, up to no good.

My only opinion as to how things could have been handled differently would have been to limit your conversation to him to one word: "LEAVE!"

Well, perhaps, two: "LEAVE NOW!"

As to your adrenaline rush...you handled it well enough to diffuse the situation with no need to resort to actual application of deadly force. Bravo.

Your posting shows an inclination to self-critique...and that's great. Here's my critique, just based on what you described. It's not in depth, and doesn't cover lots of things that could be mentioned:

- You assessed the situation with respect to ATM access, positioned your truck to help block access by others, and was creative in the deliberate use of your driver's door to limit access in one direction. Good.

- As an immediate response, you also acted to provide an additional physical barricade on the other side. Also good.

- You armed yourself immediately and was prepared to deploy if required. Also good.

- You warned the individual off, which worked. Also good.


QUESTIONS TO PONDER:

- Did you consider he may have had an accomplice? Engaging you in needless conversation could have been a deliberate act of distraction. Was your head on a swivel for this?

- Did you "case the joint" before you pulled up to the ATM? Things like people standing around for no apparent reason? Excessive shrubbery for concealment? Secluded or open to public view? Properly lit?

- Did others know where you were? Doesn't mean they had to know EXACTLY where you were, necessarily, but when I travel my wife generally knows my route and intentions.

- If you were not armed with your gun, how would your actions have been different?


The encounter ended well...nobody was hurt or killed, most especially YOU. But even the best encounters are lessons to be studied. Things that worked well, things that didn't work well, things that could have been better, and things that might or might not have worked had the scenario been just a little different.

It's the honest and thoughtful evaluation of everything that happened (or didn't happen) that help prepare us for potential future incidents. Good on you for asking.

 

[Oneofsix]

I personally think you handled it very well.

In my experience, at the post office late in the evening only thing I did different was not draw, and use less words- "GTF away from me, go away fast."

Worked for me, as my personal motto is-
If it's time to draw, time for talking is over.
I don't care about their lies and excuses.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120AZ using Tapatalk

 

[S4f]

Here's what you posted that seems key to me:



Crackhead or not, it seems to me that ANYBODY that comes running at a dead sprint towards a person at a dispensing ATM is, at the very least, up to no good.

My only opinion as to how things could have been handled differently would have been to limit your conversation to him to one word: "LEAVE!"

Well, perhaps, two: "LEAVE NOW!"

As to your adrenaline rush...you handled it well enough to diffuse the situation with no need to resort to actual application of deadly force. Bravo.

Your posting shows an inclination to self-critique...and that's great. Here's my critique, just based on what you described. It's not in depth, and doesn't cover lots of things that could be mentioned:

- You assessed the situation with respect to ATM access, positioned your truck to help block access by others, and was creative in the deliberate use of your driver's door to limit access in one direction. Good.

- As an immediate response, you also acted to provide an additional physical barricade on the other side. Also good.

- You armed yourself immediately and was prepared to deploy if required. Also good.

- You warned the individual off, which worked. Also good.


QUESTIONS TO PONDER:

- Did you consider he may have had an accomplice? Engaging you in needless conversation could have been a deliberate act of distraction. Was your head on a swivel for this?

- Did you "case the joint" before you pulled up to the ATM? Things like people standing around for no apparent reason? Excessive shrubbery for concealment? Secluded or open to public view? Properly lit?

- Did others know where you were? Doesn't mean they had to know EXACTLY where you were, necessarily, but when I travel my wife generally knows my route and intentions.

- If you were not armed with your gun, how would your actions have been different?


The encounter ended well...nobody was hurt or killed, most especially YOU. But even the best encounters are lessons to be studied. Things that worked well, things that didn't work well, things that could have been better, and things that might or might not have worked had the scenario been just a little different.

It's the honest and thoughtful evaluation of everything that happened (or didn't happen) that help prepare us for potential future incidents. Good on you for asking.

I give myself a c+ , if I had it to do over, I'd have given the leave now command repeatedly,
Idpa teaches cover, I didn't realize how much that had stuck, till cover , cover cover, ran through my head,
I also remembered the concealed carry citizen who was killed by the Walmart shooters wife from behind, while he was focused on the shooter that's why I'm so down on myself for letting him engage me in conversation.

 

[Button Pusher]

How about hitting the panic alarm on the remote if it was handy?

 

[S4f]

How about hitting the panic alarm on the remote if it was handy?

One hand to retrieve firearm, one hand to open the door, so I was out of hands.
But still an excellent idea, especially if you're unarmed

 

[chiefjason]

You did fine.

The only thing I would have likely done different is gone straight to giving very loud, very firm, very direct commands. The last guy that came up on my fast at work took a single step after I noticed and started in on him. Pretty amazing what a command voice can do. A lot of guys don't expect it. I'll give folks more leeway if I'm not getting a bad read on them and they are walking up trying to get my attention. But come running up on me like that, I'm going to get loud. For one it might disarm the perp, and it gets everyones attention around you that something is up.

 

[MostWanted]

@Oneofsix, you may want to edit your post because it sounds like you were telling the whole Internet about the time you committed a felony. I know you wouldn't want to give people the wrong impression.

 

[Button Pusher]

One hand to retrieve firearm, one hand to open the door, so I was out of hands.
But still an excellent idea, especially if you're unarmed

Back in NY City I worked nights in data center, had cassette tape recording of police radio frequencies,
if I had to change a flat I would play the tape at the right volume. I got my ham radio license and had the police
frequencies programmed on my mobile radio (receive only, radio will not transmit out of band).
Had to change a tire and had some 'citizens' watching me the whole time but did not bother with me.

Easy to make a CD for the car from youtube videos, most police comms are now encrypted.

 

[DurhamDad]

It didn't register with me at first, but when he came up and said 'You don't need that gun', I wonder what he would have done if you'd said 'I don't have a gun'. Sneaky POS... That was a good way for him to get that intel.