Entry to moderate level AR

Love2shoot

Love2shoot

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Ok, I know all different companies, but I am looking to recommend a AR style rifle to a friends wife to buy for a xmas present. What are some good companies that wont break the bank, say under $800, and if you have a specific model even better. I am thinking Ruger since I know he likes that brand, but also know MP Sport2 is one, but what would you all say is a nice reliable decent AR at that point? I am also thinking a holosun red dot recommendation. Mostly plinking but also something that you can depend on.
 
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CZfool68 said:
Buy a quality gun made right here in NC. No need to look anywhere else. These are good, quality guns.

https://www.usamade-ar15parts.com/i..._id=31&zenid=f8e5d0404a0e9ab48455c4605c0b19b7

Edit - Forgot to mention the cool NC Flag on the magwell. :D
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+1

If you are near Apex Triangle Gun Vault is a stocking dealer and has their Basic Patrol Carbine for $730 (and if you pay cash 3% discount). Just the price of the barrel assembly, rail and NiB BCG I’d bought alone is that. This is the AR if I was going to buy a few extra “just in case” I would.

http://www.trianglegunvault.com/new...qb-556223-basic-carbine-16-223-wylde-33844608

ETA: their ARs are .223wylde chambered and with match grade ammo WILL shoot 1 moa and under.
 
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NCFubar said:
+1

If you are near Apex Triangle Gun Vault is a stocking dealer and has their Basic Patrol Carbine for $730 (and if you pay cash 3% discount). Just the price of the barrel assembly, rail and NiB BCG I’d bought alone is that. This is the AR if I was going to buy a few extra “just in case” I would.

http://www.trianglegunvault.com/new...qb-556223-basic-carbine-16-223-wylde-33844608

ETA: their ARs are .223wylde chambered and with match grade ammo WILL shoot 1 moa and under.
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Damn. And here I was blaming my groups on the gun. You mean it has been the idiot behind the trigger all these years? ;)
 
If the recipient is a true "gun guy", then I'd go with the Barnes mentioned above. It's an awesome rifle, well made and local. Those in the know know it's good.

BUT...if the recipient is not necessarily a gun nut, and more of an occasional shooter, just wants something to have something kind of guy, then I'd go with a national brand (S&W, Ruger) that he'd recognize. My thinking being if he's not heard of the vendor, then he won't 'know' if it's good or not. But if he can tell his buddies, "Yeah, the wife got me a SMITH & WESSON, it's awesome!" she'll be ahead in the atta-girl department.
 
I loved my Barnes, and when I had a problem with the trigger, I took it to their shop. Andrew Barnes personally came out to the lobby, took it to the back, and about 20 minutes later I had a new trigger assembly. No hassles about warranty or anything. Just a handshake and I was gone.

Only problem is, I found his rifles to be heavy. Indestructible and accurate. But heavy.
 
Talked to her last night and I think a entry level would be just fine to make sure hes going to shoot etc and not break her bank, I am thinking the MP Sport 2 optic ready, and then have her throw on a holosun, you think thats a decent package for fun/plinking but still reliable where he wont have issues? Those seem to have good reviews, and as @Tim said, its instant brand recognition where he knows he has a known brand gun. When I take him to the range 90% of my pistols are SW, thoughts?
 
Love2shoot said:
Talked to her last night and I think a entry level would be just fine to make sure hes going to shoot etc and not break her bank, I am thinking the MP Sport 2 optic ready, and then have her throw on a holosun, you think thats a decent package for fun/plinking but still reliable where he wont have issues? Those seem to have good reviews, and as @Tim said, its instant brand recognition where he knows he has a known brand gun. When I take him to the range 90% of my pistols are SW, thoughts?
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Should work fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Love2shoot said:
When I take him to the range 90% of my pistols are SW, thoughts?
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If you keep the Glock at home and the Sig in your pocket, he'll never know the difference. ;)
 
@Love2shoot , I am going a different direction: You can get a S&W all day for $599. A Colt 6920 is $850. $150 difference between an "entry" (BTW, I hate that word) AR and a "you'll never need another" AR. People spend more just upgrading wheels on their car for cosmetic reasons.

I am not knocking S&W; it's fine. To me it's a matter of the negligible difference in cost and a large qualitative leap.

Also, I love Barnes, but once you get to that price point, you also get several awesome options: BCM, Sionics, etc.
 
11B CIB said:
Like a Bushmaster. Made by the same guy
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like the old Bushmaster. The newer Freedom Group BM isn't anything more than a DPMS Oracle.
Remington bought both companies and ruined the best parts of both - the employees.

FWIW I have seen Del-ton selling guns very reasonably lately, and they're made in NC.
 
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Chuckman said:
@Love2shoot , I am going a different direction: You can get a S&W all day for $599. A Colt 6920 is $850. $150 difference between an "entry" (BTW, I hate that word) AR and a "you'll never need another" AR. People spend more just upgrading wheels on their car for cosmetic reasons.

I am not knocking S&W; it's fine. To me it's a matter of the negligible difference in cost and a large qualitative leap.

Also, I love Barnes, but once you get to that price point, you also get several awesome options: BCM, Sionics, etc.
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The Barnes lists for about $750. Can you get a BCM for that now? I haven't AR shopped in a while.
 
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CZfool68 said:
That is their basic one. Same good barrel and BCG, but without the better furniture. I think the Patrolman's model is still about $1100 or something like that.
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Well, furniture is furniture...as longs as you have the barrel, BCG and FCG, who cares? Heat shields are $15. I had no idea you could get them for that now.
 
Chuckman said:
@Love2shoot , I am going a different direction: You can get a S&W all day for $599. A Colt 6920 is $850. $150 difference between an "entry" (BTW, I hate that word) AR and a "you'll never need another" AR. People spend more just upgrading wheels on their car for cosmetic reasons.

I am not knocking S&W; it's fine. To me it's a matter of the negligible difference in cost and a large qualitative leap.

Also, I love Barnes, but once you get to that price point, you also get several awesome options: BCM, Sionics, etc.
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I like your advice Chuckman, but your math is bad. It's a $250 difference.

I've chimed in on several of these threads and I am going to summarize my thoughts below based on pricing tier. Now if you're willing to shop for a used AR (and I have bought MANY and have had wonderful luck/experience) then you can get a lot more for your money. Also, does $800 need to include an optic or just the gun? Is there a preference for free float rail vs fixed FSB setup?

So if you're only looking at it from a best gun for pure dollars perspective AND you don't want to build, and this does not include optic or irons:
$500 - S&W M&P Sport II, or piecing together an Aero gun (very easy right now to get a complete Aero lower for $250 and then an upper for $250-300, but you may edge closer to $600)
$650 - Aero Precision, buy the lower and upper separate
$750 - Colt LE6920 (OEM 2 is under $700 right now shipped but you'll need to add rail and buttstock, which would be difficult for $50, but you'd have an OEM colt with a free float!) https://www.classicfirearms.com/colt-defense-at15-5-56mm-rifle-le6920-oem2/
$850 - LMT SPM Carbine, includes all furniture and super nice fixed rear sight. https://www.recoilgunworks.com/spm16-ar15-carbine-p-40510.html

If it were me, right now, and I only was going to buy ONE AR to shoot and have for damn near ever, I'd get the LE6920 OEM 2, find a nice rail that uses the standard barrel nut (556 tactical had a CRAZY deal on their 12.3" Keymod rail made by Samson and I bought one, like $130 I believe?) and whatever my favorite Magpul buttstock was. Get a set of MBUS from Palmetto right now for $50 shipped, and then save for a Aimpoint Pro, or Steiner P4xi 1-4 variable if you want magnification. Boom, done for under $1,500 with a gun that'll be fun out to 200 yards and almost never depreciate.

Since I called out Chuckman, let me check my math:
Colt LE6920: $710 shipped
Transfer: $25
Rail: $125
Furniture: $75
MBUS: $50
Optic and Mount: $350-500
Total $1,500

Or:
LMT: $850 shipped
Transfer: $25
Optic and Mount: $350-500
Total: $1,375

So get the LMT
 
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JRHorne said:
your post....
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I don't have an issue 'calling me out.' If I have bad gouge, I am OK with that. FWIW, the price I saw for the S&W was $599, not $500; at that difference, then I agree you need to think about it.

My perceptions, for any AR: Rail doesn't matter; for "basic" or "entry" (again, I hate those words) heat shields are good. Optic is optional, sights are a must. I agree with used vs new pricing; and there is a glut now. If I was buying I would do a shop or private sale FTF to eliminate transfer/tax. Colt vs LMT, close your eyes and point to one. I would be very happy to have either.
 
Chuckman said:
I don't have an issue 'calling me out.' If I have bad gouge, I am OK with that. FWIW, the price I saw for the S&W was $599, not $500; at that difference, then I agree you need to think about it.

My perceptions, for any AR: Rail doesn't matter; for "basic" or "entry" (again, I hate those words) heat shields are good. Optic is optional, sights are a must. I agree with used vs new pricing; and there is a glut now. If I was buying I would do a shop or private sale FTF to eliminate transfer/tax. Colt vs LMT, close your eyes and point to one. I would be very happy to have either.
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All good man! I've always liked the advice you've given in this section and the entire forum! I agree on the indifference between Colt and LMT. That LMT at $850 is a smoking deal with the nice fixed rear sight. As long as you can live with a FSP, it's a helluva bargain.
 
Chuckman said:
Holy moly, didn't know Barnes has dropped that much....

Then I amend my post: Colt or Barnes
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Barnes has not drop its price ... Andrew came out with a “basic” model that offers enough to be an entry contender. He designed it to be the same core parts (same upper and lower receivers, NiB BCG and rail system along with some smalls) but he went with a 4150 barrel instead of stainless steel, basic GI furniture instead of Magpul, no BUIS, no fancy case just cardboard box ... the stuff most of us like to switch out to make it or own. Honestly I don’t see how he’s selling the Basic Carbines for that since the MSRP of just the rail is a little over $300, the NiB BCG is a little over $200, the lower receiver w/ tension screw $125 and barrel around $200 total over $800 before the rest of the parts are added plus labor to assemble and a lifetime guarantee ... it has to be for the consumer market name building.
 
The Barnes seems to slaughter the competition for $730.
It has a good useful rail, and it is a midlength gas system. Those two things alone separate it from the competition. Also, his NiB bolts are very nice.

I drive by his machine shop right down the street, and have shot matches with him. He's an NC shooter, and has strong opinions about quality.
I've never owned one personally, but some of the best riflemen I know around here (a competition shooting mecca) use his rifles. And they can use anything they want.
It's a carbine I would be proud to own, and I am a snob.

I'd also consider a midlength Aero for their price point/performance.

I wouldn't even consider any of the other rifles mentioned as I dislike carbine length gas systems and have never used one that wasn't terribly over gassed and felt like it was battering itself. Maybe if I had to arm someone else and it was sub $500. I just think middy's are better and don't know why they even make carbine gas anymore. But I certainly haven't tried them all. Just my opinion.
 
NKD said:
The Barnes seems to slaughter the competition for $730.
It has a good useful rail, and it is a midlength gas system. Those two things alone separate it from the competition. Also, his NiB bolts are very nice.

I drive by his machine shop right down the street, and have shot matches with him. He's an NC shooter, and has strong opinions about quality.
I've never owned one personally, but some of the best riflemen I know around here (a competition shooting mecca) use his rifles. And they can use anything they want.
It's a carbine I would be proud to own, and I am a snob.

I'd also consider a midlength Aero for their price point/performance.

I wouldn't even consider any of the other rifles mentioned as I dislike carbine length gas systems and have never used one that wasn't terribly over gassed and felt like it was battering itself. Maybe if I had to arm someone else and it was sub $500. I just think middy's are better and don't know why they even make carbine gas anymore. But I certainly haven't tried them all. Just my opinion.
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For the most part I agree; I don't care about gas system though except on SPRs and rifles.

Edited to say, I agree, it is a preferential thing.
 
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Another +1 for Barnes. I have been tasked researching new rifles for my office. Our current issued rifle is S&W and a few early Colts. I have tested and evaluated a lot of rifles, Barnes is my pick. I have toured the factory, every part of the rifle is made right there, however, they do contract out the finish coating. As mentioned above I have been guaranteed if we ever have an issue with any part of the rifle they will take care of the problem hassle free. Big selling point not only is the rifle made completely in the US it is completely made right here in NC! The Barnes name recognition isn't like Colt or S&W etc, but they are working on it. They are building a lot of rifles for special groups out of Ft Bragg and I know their rep just got back a couple a weeks ago from T&E with some other countries.
 
Average Joe said:
Another +1 for Barnes. I have been tasked researching new rifles for my office. Our current issued rifle is S&W and a few early Colts. I have tested and evaluated a lot of rifles, Barnes is my pick. I have toured the factory, every part of the rifle is made right there, however, they do contract out the finish coating. As mentioned above I have been guaranteed if we ever have an issue with any part of the rifle they will take care of the problem hassle free. Big selling point not only is the rifle made completely in the US it is completely made right here in NC! The Barnes name recognition isn't like Colt or S&W etc, but they are working on it. They are building a lot of rifles for special groups out of Ft Bragg and I know their rep just got back a couple a weeks ago from T&E with some other countries.
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I am not sure about just how widespread Barnes is in the LEO community but I know at least half dozen departments here in NC use them including Cary PD. I think Barnes business is more contract work than retail ... a few years back Andrew was making parts for OSS Suppressors ... so the company does more than we see on the surface.

Glad you gave Barnes the nod!
 
NCFubar said:
I am not sure about just how widespread Barnes is in the LEO community but I know at least half dozen departments here in NC use them including Cary PD. I think Barnes business is more contract work than retail ... a few years back Andrew was making parts for OSS Suppressors ... so the company does more than we see on the surface.

Glad you gave Barnes the nod!
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Maybe Cary isn't the best example to use... Think they've ever fired them on a 2 way range?


Joking.
 
Love2shoot said:
How is Windham weaponry comparatively?
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Very good rifle.....im no AR expert, but overall fit, form, and function is better than any new Bushmaster or DPMS. S&W, Stag, and Del-Ton make some good affordable rifles too. I have no experience with Barnes, but this many guys cant be wrong!
 
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NCFubar said:
I think Barnes business is more contract work than retail ... a few years back Andrew was making parts for OSS Suppressors ... so the company does more than we see on the surface.
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Andrew developing the BPM Basic Patrol Carbine (BPC) has really helped get them more into the LEO community. You are correct, most of their work is custom builds for special military groups, silencer parts, solid copper bullets for Barnes Bullets, archery parts, and aerospace parts. When testing one of Barnes SBRs I was hitting 8in plates at 200 yards with boring regularity. I really wanted to push it out further, but ran out of range. Below is a target from a brand new S&W M&P 15 shot at 25 yards. Wish this was the only rifle I have sent back. I've sent back 4 out of a 110, for chamber and barrel issues. More than I can remember have been fixed by me or my armorers. And this is why I recommend Barnes, professional and quality rifles. Anyone wishing to test a Barnes rifle that is in my area send me a PM and I'll do my best to meet up with you at a range. However, I will not be held responsible for anyone's spouse being mad for you buying a new rifle lol.
IMG_2811.JPG
 
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Average Joe said:
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Andrew developing the BPM Basic Patrol Carbine (BPC) has really helped get them more into the LEO community. You are correct, most of their work is custom builds for special military groups, silencer parts, solid copper bullets for Barnes Bullets, archery parts, and aerospace parts. When testing one of Barnes SBRs I was hitting 8in plates at 200 yards with boring regularity. I really wanted to push it out further, but ran out of range. Below is a target from a brand new S&W M&P 15 shot at 25 yards. Wish this was the only rifle I have sent back. I've sent back 4 out of a 110, for chamber and barrel issues. More than I can remember have been fixed by me or my armorers. And this is why I recommend Barnes, professional and quality rifles. Anyone wishing to test a Barnes rifle that is in my area send me a PM and I'll do my best to meet up with you at a range. However, I will not be held responsible for anyone's spouse being mad for you buying a new rifle lol.
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Those sideways boolits are more deadly, cuz the AR47 was designed to make bullets tumble in the jungle.




I keeeed, I keeed.
 
My neighbors M&P Sport recently sheared the gas key screws off his BCG. Not sure how normal that is, but it happened. After 300 round or so.
 
To be fair, and maybe @Combat Diver could chime in if he is in the know, up until last year those 'units' at Bragg were using Barnes for T&E, not operationally. That is not to discount from their quality at all, and if I could buy another AR, I would not hesitate to get a Barnes.
 
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