Expedition EVAP leak... Baffling...

bigfelipe

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So I pulled the intake and replaced the worn hose on the back after getting a P0442 small leak code that showed up after I pulled the intake last time. Then it went pending with P0456(?) very small leak. Found my gas filler was broken. I repaired it. Checked the purge solenoid on the intake. Didn't hold vacuum. So, I replaced it too. Figured I was good to go...

Nope... Now it's registering both a small and a very small leak. Doesn't even make sense. Should be one or the other. Anyhow, my inspection is due and I nee to figure this crap out.

Short of building a DIY smoke machine anyone have any tips? I'm going to check the lines front to back for visible damage and then look to the Canister and Canister Purge Solenoid in the rear. What else is worth a look?
 
If you fail the inspection due to the check engine light, and can document that you've spent $200 or more to fix it, and it is still kaput, you can get a waiver for a year.



§ 20-183.5. When a vehicle that fails an emissions inspection may obtain a waiver from the inspection requirement.

(a) Requirements. – The Division may issue a waiver for a vehicle, excluding a vehicle owned or being held for retail sale by a motor vehicle dealer, that meets all of the following requirements:

(1) Fails an emissions inspection because it passes the visual inspection but fails the analysis of data provided by the on-board diagnostic (OBD) equipment.

(2) Has documented repairs costing at least the waiver amount made to the vehicle to correct the cause of the failure. The waiver amount is two hundred dollars ($200.00).

(3) Is reinspected and again fails the inspection because it passes the visual inspection but fails the analysis of data provided by the on-board diagnostic (OBD) equipment.

(4) Meets any other waiver criteria required by 40 C.F.R. § 51.360, or as designated by the Division.

(b) Procedure. – To obtain a waiver, a person must contact a local enforcement office of the Division. Before issuing a waiver, an employee of the Division must review the inspection receipts issued for the inspections of the vehicle, review the documents establishing what repairs were made to the vehicle and at what cost, review any statement denying warranty coverage of the repairs made, and do a visual inspection of the vehicle, if appropriate, to determine if the documented repairs were made. The Division must issue a waiver if it determines that the vehicle qualifies for a waiver. A person to whom a waiver is issued must present the waiver to the self-inspector or inspection station performing the inspection to obtain an electronic inspection authorization.

(c) Repairs. – The following repairs and their costs cannot be considered in determining whether the cost of repairs made to a vehicle equals or exceeds the waiver amount:

(1) Repairs covered by a warranty that applies to the vehicle.

(2) Repairs needed as a result of tampering with an emission control device of the vehicle.

(3) Repairs made by an individual who is not professionally engaged in the business of repairing vehicles.

(4) OBD diagnostics without corresponding repairs.

(d) Electronic Inspection Authorization. – An electronic inspection authorization issued to a vehicle after the vehicle receives a waiver from the requirement of passing the emissions inspection expires at the same time it would if the vehicle had passed the emissions inspection. (1965, c. 734, s. 1; 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 754, s. 1; 2000-134, ss. 16, 17; 2007-503, s. 7.)
 
You can let the engine idle and spray ether around any area that you suspect a leak. It should pull it into the engine through the leak and you'll hear it. It's old school but it works. Some guys use carb clean or brake clean...the result is the same, you're listening for a change in engine idle. Vacuum leaks can be one of the most frustrating things to track down...I've been there.

For what it's worth, maybe go back and check the things you've changed. Make sure they are all well seated and clean. Just yesterday I had to change an axle seal for a customer because it was leaking after 400 miles. When I got the axle out you could clearly see a dent in the seal. I have no idea how it got there but it was there and was surely the cause of the leak as the seal lip was distorted. My point is, things happen....
 
(c) Repairs. – The following repairs and their costs cannot be considered in determining whether the cost of repairs made to a vehicle equals or exceeds the waiver amount:

(3) Repairs made by an individual who is not professionally engaged in the business of repairing vehicles.
Unless they're DIY...uggh.
 
You can let the engine idle and spray ether around any area that you suspect a leak. It should pull it into the engine through the leak and you'll hear it. It's old school but it works. Some guys use carb clean or brake clean...the result is the same, you're listening for a change in engine idle. Vacuum leaks can be one of the most frustrating things to track down...I've been there.

For what it's worth, maybe go back and check the things you've changed. Make sure they are all well seated and clean. Just yesterday I had to change an axle seal for a customer because it was leaking after 400 miles. When I got the axle out you could clearly see a dent in the seal. I have no idea how it got there but it was there and was surely the cause of the leak as the seal lip was distorted. My point is, things happen....

Ether? Like starting fluid? I've heard of spraying cleaners around, but always thought it sounded like a bad idea. That stuff eats a lot of stuff...
 
Ether? Like starting fluid? I've heard of spraying cleaners around, but always thought it sounded like a bad idea. That stuff eats a lot of stuff...
NO ether, Carb Cleaner and Brake Clean are different, not as explosive but still flammable.
 
You can let the engine idle and spray ether around any area that you suspect a leak. It should pull it into the engine through the leak and you'll hear it. It's old school but it works. Some guys use carb clean or brake clean...the result is the same, you're listening for a change in engine idle. Vacuum leaks can be one of the most frustrating things to track down...I've been there.

For what it's worth, maybe go back and check the things you've changed. Make sure they are all well seated and clean. Just yesterday I had to change an axle seal for a customer because it was leaking after 400 miles. When I got the axle out you could clearly see a dent in the seal. I have no idea how it got there but it was there and was surely the cause of the leak as the seal lip was distorted. My point is, things happen....
This doesn’t always work on newer vehicles. The idle won’t change. You have to monitor O2 pids on a scanner. But sometimes it does work.
 
I got an Evap problem in my old Tacoma. Here's how I deal with it: I ignore the light since I know it's a Toyota, and I monitor mileage to determine engine status every week. Guess what, MPG hasn't changed in 100K miles.

I tried changing out solenoids, etc. but honestly with close to 200K miles, I don't give a crap about a little gas vapor leak. So this is how I get it inspected.

EVAP in OBD-II systems is a function of fuel level and vacuum. So the week before I get it inspected, I fill up the tank and clear the codes. It will not test Evap until you get near 1/2 of a tank which in my case is around 200 miles. Plenty of enough driving time to test everything else including 02 sensors.

You only need 5/6 to pass newer than 2000 cars, and the Evap system is the last one, so it passes without a MIL light every year. Then driving home the code usually comes back.

Voila, it's magic.
 
I got an Evap problem in my old Tacoma. Here's how I deal with it: I ignore the light since I know it's a Toyota, and I monitor mileage to determine engine status every week. Guess what, MPG hasn't changed in 100K miles.

I tried changing out solenoids, etc. but honestly with close to 200K miles, I don't give a crap about a little gas vapor leak. So this is how I get it inspected.

EVAP in OBD-II systems is a function of fuel level and vacuum. So the week before I get it inspected, I fill up the tank and clear the codes. It will not test Evap until you get near 1/2 of a tank which in my case is around 200 miles. Plenty of enough driving time to test everything else including 02 sensors.

You only need 5/6 to pass newer than 2000 cars, and the Evap system is the last one, so it passes without a MIL light every year. Then driving home the code usually comes back.

Voila, it's magic.

Seriously? I've never heard of this. I'm not sure my system is ready fast enough. I'm 250 miles and my reader still says the system isn't ready for emissions testing.
 
Seriously? I've never heard of this. I'm not sure my system is ready fast enough. I'm 250 miles and my reader still says the system isn't ready for emissions testing.
After codes are cleared
The vehicle has to go so many cold to operating temperature cycles...... I would like to say its about 10 cycles.
 
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I got an Evap problem in my old Tacoma. Here's how I deal with it: I ignore the light since I know it's a Toyota, and I monitor mileage to determine engine status every week. Guess what, MPG hasn't changed in 100K miles.

I tried changing out solenoids, etc. but honestly with close to 200K miles, I don't give a crap about a little gas vapor leak. So this is how I get it inspected.

EVAP in OBD-II systems is a function of fuel level and vacuum. So the week before I get it inspected, I fill up the tank and clear the codes. It will not test Evap until you get near 1/2 of a tank which in my case is around 200 miles. Plenty of enough driving time to test everything else including 02 sensors.

You only need 5/6 to pass newer than 2000 cars, and the Evap system is the last one, so it passes without a MIL light every year. Then driving home the code usually comes back.

Voila, it's magic.

What about the permanent code on the engine computer? You can't clear that with a scanner. Is that a non-issue with this technique?
 
What about the permanent code on the engine computer? You can't clear that with a scanner. Is that a non-issue with this technique?
When ever codes are cleared, either with scan tools or disconnecting the battery, all the ready states will be “not ready”.
 
I got an Evap problem in my old Tacoma. Here's how I deal with it: I ignore the light since I know it's a Toyota, and I monitor mileage to determine engine status every week. Guess what, MPG hasn't changed in 100K miles.

I tried changing out solenoids, etc. but honestly with close to 200K miles, I don't give a crap about a little gas vapor leak. So this is how I get it inspected.

EVAP in OBD-II systems is a function of fuel level and vacuum. So the week before I get it inspected, I fill up the tank and clear the codes. It will not test Evap until you get near 1/2 of a tank which in my case is around 200 miles. Plenty of enough driving time to test everything else including 02 sensors.

You only need 5/6 to pass newer than 2000 cars, and the Evap system is the last one, so it passes without a MIL light every year. Then driving home the code usually comes back.

Voila, it's magic.
Not exactly. Evap diagnosis is only ran when the tank is between 1/4 and 3/4. It will not run from full down to 3/4 and will not run from 1/4 to empty. And 2001 and up can have 1 monitor set to“not ready”.
 
Not exactly. Evap diagnosis is only ran when the tank is between 1/4 and 3/4. It will not run from full down to 3/4 and will not run from 1/4 to empty. And 2001 and up can have 1 monitor set to“not ready”.
Yep. Dont open the filler cap either. I check how many monitors are ready with a cheap harbor freight code reader right before i drop it off before inspection.
 
looking at the trouble charts for codes p0442 and p0456 for your vehicle, I would revisit the fuel filler neck.

Pay attention to the fill valve for sand, dirt, any thing that will prevent a slight vacuum from being achieved when the purge solenoid is commanded on
 
Yep. Dont open the filler cap either. I check how many monitors are ready with a cheap harbor freight code reader right before i drop it off before inspection.

Probably wouldn't work for me then. I would need to refill to keep the gas tank full enough.
 
looking at the trouble charts for codes p0442 and p0456 for your vehicle, I would revisit the fuel filler neck.

Pay attention to the fill valve for sand, dirt, any thing that will prevent a slight vacuum from being achieved when the purge solenoid is commanded on

I cleaned it up and oiled it like the youtubers suggest after I put it back together.

If there's an issue with it, it has to be replaced. Can't find anyone who sells them. Factory part I guess. If I'm replacing it, I'm swapping it for a capped one!
 
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Ok... My tags expired today. So after driving it about 75 miles I checked my OBDII and saw that all the tests were complete, save the EVAP. Still showed the 442 permanent code and the P1000 readiness code. I said F it and stopped at the next station, topped off the tank and drove to my preferred inspection station. Figured I'd fail and at least have the failure paper on hand while I worked out the issue...

Much to my surprise, it passed with flying colors... Good for another year. Thanks for all the tips guys!
 
BTW, I ordered a Fuel Filler Neck for a 99' Ranger. looked to be similar in length and dimension to my existing capless neck. $27. No more of that BS. I will be converting it to a normal capped system this weekend...
 
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