Explosion at Manchester Arena during concert

[noway2]

Seriously, Southeast Asia, East Europe, Central America, the Middle East. Warring and warring alone, we can kick the crap out of anyone, but the 'peace' that ensues is an absolute mess.....

That's because for there to be real change it has to come from within. The idea that if we depose a dictator who ruled via peace of the gun that the population will rise up and become good capitalistic Republicrats and Demicans embracing western values is a complete fallacy.

 

[Chuckman]

That's because for there to be real change it has to come from within. The idea that if we depose a dictator who ruled via peace of the gun that the population will rise up and become good capitalistic Republicrats and Demicans embracing western values is a complete fallacy.

Yes. We have never done regime change well, save a couple instances, and most often when we do, it's a freaking mess.

 

[drypowder]

That's because for there to be real change it has to come from within. The idea that if we depose a dictator who ruled via peace of the gun that the population will rise up and become good capitalistic Republicrats and Demicans embracing western values is a complete fallacy.

Right, that we continue to believe we can spread western style democracy despite all the evidence that we cannot, is a testament to how much we have swallowed the equalist blue pill. Not all cultures are the same (obviously), and not all cultures are capable of (or interested in) western style democracy.

It may be that western style democracy, and certainly a US style constitutional republic, requires the population, on average, to have a minimum level of abstract reasoning ability. For sure, to understand and see the need for a governance system like the American constitutional republic, requires greater abstract reasoning ability than that required to understand and see the need for the governance structure of early man's tribal groups. Abstract reasoning ability is part of general intelligence, and if we can see past our equalist indoctrination and look to actual science, we would acknowledge that general intelligence is not equally distributed among all racial and ethnic groups. This may be part of the reason why the governance change we were able to effect in Germany and Japan has not successfully taken hold in so many other places.

It should also provide a clue as to which countries we should focus our immigration on. It also suggests that we should screen immigrants for, among other things, intelligence. Bringing in people whose intelligence levels are not compatible with our constitutional republic is a surefire way to destroy said republic.

 

[TheWallrus]

I prefer this one...

"Now you will receive us... We do not ask for your poor or your hungry. We do not want your tired and sick. It is your Corrupt we claim. It is your evil that will be sought by us. With every breath, we shall hunt them down. Each day we will spill their blood till it rains down from the skies.

Do not Kill...
Do not Rape...
Do not Steal...

These are principles, which every man of every faith can embrace. These are not polite suggestions- these are codes of behavior and those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost.

There are varying degrees of evil. We urge you lesser forms of filth, not to push the bounds and cross over into true corruption, into our domain... but if you do you, one day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day, you will reap it. And we will send you to whatever God you wish.

'...and shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. We shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be...'

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti..."

"We're sorta like 7-Eleven. We're not always doin' business, but we're always open."

 

[NKD]

Right, that we continue to believe we can spread western style democracy despite all the evidence that we cannot, is a testament to how much we have swallowed the equalist blue pill. Not all cultures are the same (obviously), and not all cultures are capable of (or interested in) western style democracy.

It may be that western style democracy, and certainly a US style constitutional republic, requires the population, on average, to have a minimum level of abstract reasoning ability. For sure, to understand and see the need for a governance system like the American constitutional republic, requires greater abstract reasoning ability than that required to understand and see the need for the governance structure of early man's tribal groups. Abstract reasoning ability is part of general intelligence, and if we can see past our equalist indoctrination and look to actual science, we would acknowledge that general intelligence is not equally distributed among all racial and ethnic groups. This may be part of the reason why the governance change we were able to effect in Germany and Japan has not successfully taken hold in so many other places.

It should also provide a clue as to which countries we should focus our immigration on. It also suggests that we should screen immigrants for, among other things, intelligence. Bringing in people whose intelligence levels are not compatible with our constitutional republic is a surefire way to destroy said republic.

Careful, these words you speak hurt. You may be in need of serious re-education. Maybe even forcibly!

 

[gc70]

It also suggests that we should screen immigrants for, among other things, intelligence.

What you have overlooked is the need to screen government workers and officials for intelligence.

 

[Jayne]

Bringing in people whose intelligence levels are not compatible with our constitutional republic is a surefire way to destroy said republic.

You sure that isn't exactly what the ruling class wants? Importation of ignorance and poverty ensures there are plenty of people to line up behind dear leader who wants to give them free stuff.

 

[Lawless]

 

[Diablos]

“Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations...entangling alliances with none...until its time to send the marines to kick some ass”
Thomas Jefferson

 

[drypowder]

"He Wanted Revenge": The Story Of The Manchester Suicide Bomber Emerges

 

[drypowder]

Careful, these words you speak hurt. You may be in need of serious re-education. Maybe even forcibly!

Indeed. That's what happens when they cannot refute an argument with reason and evidence. At that point, label it hate speech, label the person a racist, freeze, isolate, and all the rest of Alinksy's tactics.

Reason and evidence must not be allowed to pierce the glorious bubble of feels.

Problem is that while the truth may hurt dem feels, building on the lies is guaranteed to end in disaster.

All that said, I'm happy to further discuss the points I made if anyone disagrees. I see that post has zero likes, so surely some disagree - I welcome your arguments.

 

[drypowder]

You sure that isn't exactly what the ruling class wants? Importation of ignorance and poverty ensures there are plenty of people to line up behind dear leader who wants to give them free stuff.

Oh, I know it is. And we see all of DC and all corporate media on one side of the immigration issue (to an extent we do not see on any other issue - this should be a clue to everyone that everything you've heard about immigration is biased). The point is I want everyone here to understand that immigration is the #1 political issue for the future of this republic.

Tone of news coverage of Trump, by issue:

 

[gc70]

Man, the culprit is a direct result of of American and British foreign policy.....

Maybe you need to look from a different perspective and see the culprit is a direct result of British immigration policy .....

 

[SPM]

Maybe you need to look from a different perspective and see the culprit is a direct result of British immigration policy .....

He was born in Manchester......maybe you should look at the facts of the case (yes, his parents fled from Qaddafi's secular government- but the kid was British).

 

[JimP42]

He was born in Manchester......maybe you should look at the facts of the case (yes, his parents fled from Qaddafi's secular government- but the kid was British).

Well he wouldn't have been a British kid if his parents had stayed in Libya would he?

 

[gc70]

He was born in Manchester......maybe you should look at the facts of the case (yes, his parents fled from Qaddafi's secular government- but the kid was British).

You clearly fail to appreciate that the radical Islamic jihadist parents should never have been allowed in the UK to spawn their murderous offspring.

 

[SPM]

Well he wouldn't have been a British kid if his parents had stayed in Libya would he?

You clearly fail to appreciate that the radical Islamic jihadist parents should never have been allowed in the UK to spawn their murderous offspring.

I didn't say I discount it fully, but I do dismiss it as the primary driver of the kid's radicalization.

How do you explain these two, but the of whom had the "proper western upbringing," from a decently prosperous western country (Austria)?

Or this guy, born and raised in the good 'ol USofA?

Or this guy, born and raised in Arlington, Virginia in 1970. Not only serving in the US military, but rising to the rank of Major....

I am not discounting the role immigration plays in the increase of such attacks.

I am saying it is not the highest contributor to the Manchester bomber, and blaming it because it's easy and allows us to not face our own sins in this f*cked up world our government has created. It also blunts the rage we should feel towards our government for what its foreign policy has cost our fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, children and grandchildren.

And for what it's worth, my very first post on page 1 of this thread already acknowledged the role immigration plays.

 

[trcubed]

The city of Manchester has called out the bomb squad to another incident today. This time at the university. It's just now been on the news, no more details.

 

[SPM]

The city of Manchester has called out the bomb squad to another incident today. This time at the university. It's just now been on the news, no more details.

Reports are now saying it was a false alarm.

 

[Meckmeister]

Reports are now saying it was a false alarm.

The terrorists have a double victory. They carried out the attack...check. Then they have some or all of Europe on edge, maybe avoiding stadiums and concerts. PM May said 'we are winning the war on terror.' But Katie Hopkins (British media figure) said, "if this is winning I'd hate to see what losing is."

"After the Westminster terror attack on March 26 I said we were cowed. That we were like ants, carrying on as normal, waiting for the next footstep to fall.

And today I see this to be true. Ants, squashed by a car, hewn in half by a truck, bounced off the bonnet of a 4x4, punctured by ballbearings and shrapnel from a hardware store.

And the only thing we ants can do is act busy. Whip ourselves up into a frenzy of activity. Move this way and that. Scurry about carrying things. Film ourselves walking to work. Make posters about 'having a cup of tea', get cross about what is said on twitter."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ter-Arena-terrorist-attack.html#ixzz4i64GSvvS

 

[11B CIB]

Man, the culprit is a direct result of of American and British foreign policy.....

"Salman Abedi, the 22 year old who killed nearly two dozen concert-goers in Manchester, UK, was the product of the US and UK overthrow of Gaddafi in Libya and "regime change" policy in Syria. He was a radicalized Libyan whose family fled Gaddafi's secular Libya, and later he trained to be an armed "rebel" in Syria, fighting for the US and UK "regime change" policy toward the secular Assad government.

The suicide attacker was the direct product of US and UK interventions in the greater Middle East.

According to the London Telegraph, Abedi, a son of Libyan immigrants living in a radicalized Muslim neighborhood in Manchester had returned to Libya several times after the overthrow of Muamar Gaddafi, most recently just weeks ago. After the US/UK and allied "liberation" of Libya, all manner of previously outlawed and fiercely suppressed radical jihadist groups suddenly found they had free rein to operate in Libya. This is the Libya that Abedi returned to and where he likely prepared for his suicide attack on pop concert attendees. Before the US-led attack on Libya in 2011, there was no al-Qaeda, ISIS, or any other related terrorist organization operating (at least with impunity) on Libyan soil."

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archive...was-product-of-wests-libyasyria-intervention/

So you really think if we just packed up and went home, they'd stop hating?

Not to mention, if we say "Ya'll get that area over there, we get this area over here", isn't that like a global segregationist policy? What do you do about the followers of Islam already in "the west"?

I don't buy for one minute that they'd just take their ball and go home if we stopped whatever it is that happened to piss of this particular group on that particular day.

 

[noway2]

So you really think if we just packed up and went home, they'd stop hating?

Not in and of itself, no, but it would be a start in the right direction. I think it would need to be coupled with an understanding that if they ever do something like this again that whatever nation or region they or their ancestors hailed from, whatever state sponsored them, including the Saudis, will be completely and totally annihilated including every last man, woman, child, and goat. For example in this guys case, Syria would be wiped off the map. If the price tag is high enough, as in the guarantee complete and total destruction of anything and everything they care about, they'll think twice. Some might say, but they're innocent. No they're not.

 

[11B CIB]

Not in and of itself, no, but it would be a start in the right direction. I think it would need to be coupled with an understanding that if they ever do something like this again that whatever nation or region they or their ancestors hailed from, whatever state sponsored them, including the Saudis, will be completely and totally annihilated including every last man, woman, child, and goat. For example in this guys case, Syria would be wiped off the map. If the price tag is high enough, as in the guarantee complete and total destruction of anything and everything they care about, they'll think twice. Some might say, but they're innocent. No they're not.

But that 2nd part would never happen; both the threat and the act.

 

[noway2]

But that 2nd part would never happen; both the threat and the act.

Perhaps. A lot of what my grandparents and great grandparents (Ww1 andWW2) did would not happen today either, but those in charge now won't be forever. Not everyone has an aversion to pushing the button even if it means making a "people" extinct, and I don't consider these creatures people.

 

[11B CIB]

Perhaps. A lot of what my grandparents and great grandparents (Ww1 andWW2) did would not happen today either, but those in charge now won't be forever. Not everyone has an aversion to pushing the button even if it means making a "people" extinct, and I don't consider these creatures people.

Until things get SO bad here that people will get off their moral high ground and do what needs doing, or let other people do it, then nothing will change.

 

[noway2]

Until things get SO bad here that people will get off their moral high ground and do what needs doing, or let other people do it, then nothing will change.

Unfortunately that is what it's going to take. Even worse, it's probably going to be a Day of Wrath type scenario or a mass effect weapon being used on one or more cities.

 

[SPM]

So you really think if we just packed up and went home, they'd stop hating?

Not to mention, if we say "Ya'll get that area over there, we get this area over here", isn't that like a global segregationist policy? What do you do about the followers of Islam already in "the west"?

I don't buy for one minute that they'd just take their ball and go home if we stopped whatever it is that happened to piss of this particular group on that particular day.

I didn't say it would just stop. I made it very clear that one option was to pull back and accept the attacks that will invariably happen for a time until the current population no longer has a palpable experience with us being the "bad guy." I understand fully that complete nonintervention will not result in a cessesion of attacks. Over time, I think they would diminish and become less as those that see us as evil with their own eyes and in their own hearts are turned over generationally.

The other option is genocide - every one - man, woman and child.

Neither one, in my mind, is appealing philosophically, morally or ethically.

 

[CZfool68]

But that 2nd part would never happen; both the threat and the act.

What if we can get Bebe elected President? We had a Kenyan, can an Israeli be that hard? Can you imagine what Bebe would do with our military? Just give him 30 days.

 

[Diablos]