Maybe not.
Florida "Stand Your Ground" Shooting
- Thread starter blewis3
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The video lacks a good bit in the way of context (missing audio) that is being supplemented by the news media, which we all know to be unbiased and perfectly reliable...
It does appear that the attacker is shifting away, but continues to face the man he has attacked. Is he backing off, or positioning himself to strike? We can armchair quarterback it all we want, but we need to be honest with ourselves about not having all the critical details available to us.
Starting an argument over illegal handicapped parking isn't a good idea. It's also not against the law. Shoving an armed person to the ground whose attention has been elsewhere is an invitation to be shot, also not a good idea.
This isn't a textbook CCP training escalation of force scenario from a legal standpoint. The argument is with a separate person from the person who attacked him, and all the initial escalation in that regard is on the part of the attacker.
Was the attacker making vocal threats? We don't know, and may never know.
It does appear that the attacker is shifting away, but continues to face the man he has attacked. Is he backing off, or positioning himself to strike? We can armchair quarterback it all we want, but we need to be honest with ourselves about not having all the critical details available to us.
Starting an argument over illegal handicapped parking isn't a good idea. It's also not against the law. Shoving an armed person to the ground whose attention has been elsewhere is an invitation to be shot, also not a good idea.
This isn't a textbook CCP training escalation of force scenario from a legal standpoint. The argument is with a separate person from the person who attacked him, and all the initial escalation in that regard is on the part of the attacker.
Was the attacker making vocal threats? We don't know, and may never know.
I do not do this to other people and will not allow it to be done to me.
Still AFTER the parking event. 3 hotheads.
S4f
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Maybe the the shooter has a family member that is disabled or a friend that is, and that drove him to appoint himself.parking police.
If you've never struggled to get your sister out of a vehicle because some discourteous lunk head parked where he wasn't supposed to, you're not going to see it from the shooters point of veiw, I have, so I do
If people in Florida are so upset about this all they have to do is drop the serious bodily injury pharse from the the law.
They didn't after the trevon martin case, and I suspect they won't now.
We have about stopped going to movies. It was only a matter of time til I shot some AH with a cell phone open during the movie. My wife has a handicapped card and shows NO indicator of needing one. I would hate to see what would happen if someone asked her what her problem was.
I carry pretty much everywhere, save for work (they’ll fire you for even passing spent casings through the X-Ray machine or metal detector to get in the protected area of a nuclear plant, and you’ll lose unescorted access rights to any nuclear facility for 5 years on paper, but likely really means forever. They’ve canned guys with 40 years with the company for forgetting to check their bag). Sign, no sign - concealed means concealed.
I stay alert to my surroundings and situationally aware to potential trouble - but I most certainly do not go seeking confrontation, with anyone, if it is not necessary to save myself, my family, someone else, or my country if required . If you carry, every confrontation you involve yourself in is a gun confrontation because there’s at least one physically there in the situation.
A parking space ain’t worth my life, nor is it worth taking a life to protect. I don’t care if the deceased had a rap sheet or not - all of that is immaterial to the case at hand. Moral Busybody decided to play Parking Lot Sheriff, made a conscious decision to insert himself into the scene and started the confrontation, on purpose.
We don’t know what was being said, it’s true - but we also don’t know what Parking Sheriff was saying to the woman in the car, either. How do we know he wasn’t threatening her, and that’s what caused the deceased to push him down? How many of y’all are gonna be all calm, cool, and assess the situation if you exit a store and a random guy you don’t know is yelling at your wife?
To me, self defense does not apply. The shooter was the aggressor, made the confrontation occur instead of either a) calling the police or b)minding his own damned business.
I get it - the police are so understaffed and overworked right now they’re only able to post hundreds and hundreds of lip-syncing videos to social media for the last several weeks, so option a) would be a terrible burden on time and resources. But in most cases in public in which no violence is currently happening or imminent , option b) gets no one pushed, no one shot, and no one arguing on the Internet about the righteousness of the actions on display.
I stay alert to my surroundings and situationally aware to potential trouble - but I most certainly do not go seeking confrontation, with anyone, if it is not necessary to save myself, my family, someone else, or my country if required . If you carry, every confrontation you involve yourself in is a gun confrontation because there’s at least one physically there in the situation.
A parking space ain’t worth my life, nor is it worth taking a life to protect. I don’t care if the deceased had a rap sheet or not - all of that is immaterial to the case at hand. Moral Busybody decided to play Parking Lot Sheriff, made a conscious decision to insert himself into the scene and started the confrontation, on purpose.
We don’t know what was being said, it’s true - but we also don’t know what Parking Sheriff was saying to the woman in the car, either. How do we know he wasn’t threatening her, and that’s what caused the deceased to push him down? How many of y’all are gonna be all calm, cool, and assess the situation if you exit a store and a random guy you don’t know is yelling at your wife?
To me, self defense does not apply. The shooter was the aggressor, made the confrontation occur instead of either a) calling the police or b)minding his own damned business.
I get it - the police are so understaffed and overworked right now they’re only able to post hundreds and hundreds of lip-syncing videos to social media for the last several weeks, so option a) would be a terrible burden on time and resources. But in most cases in public in which no violence is currently happening or imminent , option b) gets no one pushed, no one shot, and no one arguing on the Internet about the righteousness of the actions on display.
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Maybe the dead guy was a wife beating , coke dealing douche bag ( see arrest report) that found that this guy was a little tougher to beat on,
Ikarus1
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An old proverb says:
you don't tug on supermans cape, you don't spit into the wind...
don't pull the mask off the ol lone ranger and you don't mess around with (him).
dadadada deedee dadddaa dee
you don't tug on supermans cape, you don't spit into the wind...
don't pull the mask off the ol lone ranger and you don't mess around with (him).
dadadada deedee dadddaa dee
Actually, I don't think the shooter was the aggressor. He was arguing with the woman in the car. The other guy came up from the side and shoved him to the ground. I'm not sure the guy with the gun even saw the guy that shoved him until he was shoved. If so, the guy that was shot was the aggressor.
Neither one of us were there, you might be right, I might be right.
I wouldn't be calm and cool if I came out of a store and saw someone arguing with my girl, but I don't think I'd be going hands on and bum-rush him to the ground. I'd keep some space between us and tell the idiot to stop yelling at her before something happens, and take it from there.
But in the first place, my Girlfriend ain't some ignorant entitled bitch who would park in a handicapped spot to begin with.
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She said on the news that he pointed out she was in a handicaped spot and that she needed move, to which she replied this is America I can park anywhere I want,
I'm sure if he had threatened her in any way other than to say I'm gonna call the police I'm sure those would have been the first words out of her mouth.
And if he had called the police how high a priority do you think they would have put on the call.
Around here it a law that doesn't get enforced much
And if you look at the tape the dead guy is is clearly the aggressor,
That is one of my peeves too.
I got lucky one day. We got a medical call to a local Wal-Mart, of course there is someone parked in the Fire lane, right by the door, right where we are supposed to park, you know, with the Fire trucks and ambulances. We blocked her in and I had dispatch call the cops as we were going in. Turns out she had a warrant and we got to see her get a couple tickets, get hauled off to jail, and get her car towed.
http://www.kmov.com/story/38696887/video-florida-man-shot-killed-during-parking-spot-dispute
"The store owner said that Drejka has a history of assaulting people in the very parking lot the shooting took place. A man who frequents the store said he had a run-in with Drejka just one month ago.
Rich Kelly says the man picked a fight with him over a parking spot, using racial slurs, and even threatening to kill him."
"The store owner said that Drejka has a history of assaulting people in the very parking lot the shooting took place. A man who frequents the store said he had a run-in with Drejka just one month ago.
Rich Kelly says the man picked a fight with him over a parking spot, using racial slurs, and even threatening to kill him."
Interesting. The guy that got shot, technically speaking, was intervening as a 3rd party in a conflict. Extrapolating from the rules on deadly force, it seems reasonable to me that his (legal) rights to the use of force would have mirrored that of his friend, who presumably he was defending. At that point, as far as we know, it was still just a verbal pissing contest. Instead, he walks out and physically shoves the one altercation participant, thereby committing assault and becoming an aggressor. We don't know if, or what, other threats may have been communicated and it is the threat that (legally) justifies the use of deadly force. Generally, simple assault alone does not justify deadly force, but again we don't know the totality of the circumstances. It most certainly justifies a response and it makes me think that this may have been a good time for a non lethal forceful solution as being on the ground puts you in a poor defensive position.
If this were true wouldnt he have been arrested and his concealed revoked, remember they have cameras.
It's fascinating to me when the store owner's story about Michael Brown showed up, it was "proof he's just a thug who got what he deserved since the justice system wouldn't fix it."
Yet here, it's questioned because the infallible justice system surely would have handled it if it were true.
Brown is the poster child of the blacks movement claiming police brutality and a glaring display of the lungenpresse in action. Brown committed strong arm robbery at a St Louis gas station which resulted in a call to dial a prayer. When the cop responded, I don't recall all the details but it had something to do with the cop not realizing he was the suspect he was responding to and instead some hot headed argument about jay walking or something, but basically he tried to get physical with the cop, tried to take his gun and got shot and killed. The cop was put on trial and exhonorated, but his life, or career at least, was effectively ruined and the family had to leave the state less the mob get vengeance on him.
Of course the lungenpresse, aka lying media, tried to portray Brown as a child, showed pictures of a little kid and things, when in fact he was a large brutish thug with a violent history.
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How about popcorn as a deadly weapon?
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...oots-movie-goer-claims-popcorn-deadly-weapon/
An altercation in a movie theater almost three years ago left one man covered in popcorn and the other one dead.
I think the video clearly hows why this is a flawed doctrine.
You should certainly 'intend' to use it if you pull it, but that doesn't mean you should always proceed to use it.
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My point was if they could pull up the shooting video,then all the store owner had to do is file a complaint produce the video of the shooter assaulting customers problem solved.no ccp
I also wonder if the owner meant to say accosting not assaulting. If that was the case bar him from the property if he comes back have him arrested for trespassing, boom, no ccp, problem solved. All the claims could easily been proven by the the security camera footage, why did the claims only come light after the shooting.
I done be et all dat!
Yup. Don’t push people, don’t recieve gapping chest wounds.
If this guy was such a bad apple, why did he still have his permit?
I know of an incident here of a woman in Wally World raising Hell in line with another woman. The whole thing was seen by an off duty cop. State cops came the next DAY and took her CWP.
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Why? Picking these things apart with different opinions is what makes it fun.
I have to think that the prosecutors are trying to determine the level of unrest if the guy is not charged versus tried and aquitted. In my limited understanding of the law, he technically had the legal right to shoot him. Whether it was actually the right think to do is much larger issue. Lesson learned, don't start none, probably won't be none.
its just nice to someone showing some restraint before rushing to judgement for a change. for a country where half the people get their opinion from half baked blurbs off facebook and misleading headlines (never reading the actual article) its kinda nice to see someone saying - wait a minute - i wasnt there or i might not have all the facts etc before rushing to condemn someone.
i agree the vid looks bad at first- but i wasnt there and i dont know what isnt being shown or disclosed. i have more than a little mistrust of what i see on tv/internet anymore - because the majority of it turns out to be agenda driven.
Difference of opinion i guess. But i would never draw unless i'm pulling the trigger. That decision is made before the draw. I don't believe it's a flawed doctrine either.
I just looked back & saw the rap sheet on the thug. Clean shoot in my opinion. It's one of those times when I hear many say "that boy needed killing anyway".