Guitar players…what’s the difference in these two?

sixtysevensg said:
A set up is like a balancing act between all the parts on the guitar. Think of it as mounting an optic, then zeroing to that sepcific gun. Floyd's and the like are called floating tremolo's. There are 2 anchor points in the body and the trem pivots on 2 knife edges, allowing it to go either sharp or flat in pitch. When the guitar is tuned to standard pitch there is a lot of tension being applied to the neck, body, trem and all things in between. The Floyd uses springs on the bottom side to counter said tension and needs to be set to what strings he wants to use. They are more finicky to string gauge changes as it throws off the geometry, or "balancing act". It can be SUPER frustrating for the newbs when it comes time to change strings and tunings and worth paying a qualified tech to do so. Figure about $75-$100 per setup (maybe 2-3 times a year. These things are wood and will move around with the different seasons).

I know this may be a lot and I hope it makes sense. And please don't let it scare you off if it brings him joy. If you are willing to make a drive up to Midway, i'd be happy give y'all a primer on the Floyd's and set you on the right path. If he's remotely mechanically inclined, I could show him how to use and maintain it himself.
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Gotta disagree, no reason to spend $100 every few months for a setup. The only thing that changes is neck relief and the user can easily learn how to do that. It's just a slight twist of an allen wrench. The string height and intonation don't change unless you change string gauges or tunings.
 
MountaineerWV said:
Gotta disagree, no reason to spend $100 every few months for a setup. The only thing that changes is neck relief and the user can easily learn how to do that. It's just a slight twist of an allen wrench. The string height and intonation don't change unless you change string gauges or tunings.
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Very true, but some are more tempermental than others. In my experience, there are some folks that are scared to death of a truss rod.
 
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IMO, I agree it's definitely worth a good setup immediately upon purchase. This may include fret leveling. This allows for way better and lower string action.
Cheaper guitars are put together quickly. Expensive guitar include a nice setup generally.
It's important to use same string gauge from then, as a change in gauge will require new setup.

After that is should be pretty stable, and is them up to the guitarist to figure out how to change the strings, which takes understanding and patience. Easy enough to do for a beginner after some Youtube vids. Not rocket surgery. Learning to setup guitars yourself isn't hard either, but may require some basic tools.

A good setup can change a guitar from one you don't really like to one you really like.
 
Black one (and strap) showed up Tuesday. White one showed up Wednesday. Both delivered to Guitar Center.

Went up there today and grabbed the strap, had them process the return on the black one, and then had a chat with the guitar tech about setting up the white one. He quoted $80, and said it included intonation, bridge leveling (or something), neck tension (or something), and a couple other things. Said he’d have it done by Friday afternoon, so I left it there. He trashed talked it a bit, and was gonna attempt to talk me into doing fret work (he said they were too sharp sticking off the edge of the fingerboard)…and I quickly reminded him I’d paid $249 for it, and he could do the basic stuff and be done with it. 😎

Can’t remember if I mentioned it in this thread (and it wasn’t important enough to scroll back and check), or if it was somewhere else…but my son offered to teach me how to play. I thought that could serve three good purposes:
1. Spend time together
2. See if him teaching me ends up teaching him some stuff along the way
3. I get to learn something I’ve always wanted to know how to do, but never attempted

So…I browsed the BST and 70 minutes from sending the first “you still have this?” PM to exchanging funds for a guitar, I came home with this Yamaha.

AC947EEF-DB9F-4139-AF74-79DD534D811B.jpeg

Figured I’d rather learn on an acoustic. And if we end up switching to electric at some point, I guess I’d just have to buy a second amp. Or play one through the stereo and one through his amp.
 
Picked it up today. Asked the tech and this was the list of things done…maybe some other minor stuff but I don’t know.

- intonation set
- replaced strings with some 9-46
- action adjusted (string height off the fretboard)
- neck relief
- something about leveling bridges, but I think that went with adjusting the action

Strap won’t go short enough, so I’ll return it. I’d bought him two of these not too long ago and he really likes them:

www.guitarcenter.com

Perri's Italian Leather With Vintage Metal Hardware Adjustable Guitar Strap

Shop for the Perri's Italian Leather With Vintage Metal Hardware Adjustable Guitar Strap and receive free shipping on your order and the guaranteed lowest price.
www.guitarcenter.com www.guitarcenter.com

A lot more adjustability with them. He’s going to put one of them on the Jackson, since he never put it on his acoustic. I ended up ordering me one today…as they’re on sale ($80 down to $30, with free shipping)

I think it’s a good looking guitar. High gloss…not sure how long that’ll last.

54ECDC12-4688-4B90-8897-6F089FE0F8D3.jpeg
 
This is turning into a headache. Guitar may be going back. Nothing wrong with it, but I think my son has unrealistic expectations.

If anybody would be interested in it for what I paid (say $250, and I’ll eat the tax) I’ll pass along the deal. I’m out the $80 setup either way, so no reason to include that in the price.

It’s not a definite that we’re not keeping it, but shoot me a PM if you want me to check with you before we try to return it.
 
MountaineerWV said:
Er, why doesnt he like it?
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I’m sure I’ll use some wrong terminology, so bear with me.

He switches back and forth between a normal tune a down a whole step. You apparently can’t just do that with a Floyd Rose like you can a standard setup. And he has to run thicker strings, and he says he can’t stand them. There are some solutions out there to “fix” the not being able to tune down and back up, but not really a fix for needing slightly thicker strings.

He’s gonna have a convo with our guitar guy Sunday, instead of me being the middle man, and see if there’s a solution. The guy gave me quite a few options last night…from pretty cheap to >$400. But none fixed the string issue.

Personally, I think it’s something my son has to just get used to…but he’s fighting it. Heck, he’s even ditched the normal strings on his acoustic and is running 9-42 electric strings on it.
 
Ya, you can't change around tunings with a floating bridge. The only solution is multiple guitars or something like the Digitech Drop pedal (which works well). I had to carry 3 guitars for different tunings in my last band.
 
NKD said:
It's important to use same string gauge from then, as a change in gauge will require new setup.

After that is should be pretty stable, and is them up to the guitarist to figure out how to change the strings, which takes understanding and patience. Easy enough to do for a beginner after some Youtube vids. Not rocket surgery. Learning to setup guitars yourself isn't hard either, but may require some basic tool
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I should have mentioned string tension as well as it is related to gauge and scale length.
Critical with floating bridge. But even on a hard tail guitar dropping a whole step down or more you ideally want a setup just for that string set and tuning. Or you will suffer intonation problems.

Setups add “relief” to necks and that will change with different tunings and tensions.
 
Drop tune pedal isnt a bad idea. Sure this isnt something that Katana amp can do ??
 
If he likes the guitar overall, one solution would be to put a partial block on the trem. He could still use it, but to only do the fabled Devil's dive bombs. No Steve Vai black magic, but completely functional. Set it up for the highest tension and dropping shouldn't change much. Just don't run the truss rod too straight......Just typing out loud here. Carry on.
 
Galactus said:
Drop tune pedal isnt a bad idea. Sure this isnt something that Katana amp can do ??
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I’m not. Gave him several options today, and none seemed to fit his plan.

The block mentioned above. Him buying a droptune pedal.

Bottom line is he’s an ungrateful brat (way beyond just this item) at the moment, so I’ve already boxed up the guitar to return it. If somebody local wants it, you have ~36 hours to let me know. I’m going to take it back Tuesday morning.


…and I assume I’ll have to teach myself guitar if I want to learn. Because he’s pissed at the moment because I said he can’t have a V8 Charger, even if he has a way to pay for it. 🙄
 
I would tell him "Look I aint mad but we arent doing this again; next time do your own research."

So basically if he wants to switch tunings a lot and he cant have multiple guitars? He is going to have to research the ideal bridge more.

If he wants to do drop tunings hes gonna have to get over his fear of thicker strings; thats just the way it is.

Plenty of nice cheap guitars to be had but unfortunately when you start swapping stuff around the hobby gets just as bad as guns (see all the stuff im selling).

Hey waitaminute, why didnt you buy MY acoustic! 🤣
 
Honestly, this just reminds me clearly how much of a giant turd I was at his age, lol.

My first Floyd experience was........ angry. Even just doing a simple drop D is screwed. The first string change nightmare. The first string change I used slightly different gauge! EEEERRRRG!!

In fact, after my first Floyd guitar (late 80's RG550) I swore off trems for 25 years. I mean, I am not exactly a stunt guitarist to begin with.
All that said, owning a floyd made me aware of more things and I learned how to work with them. You start to get the hang of the idea tuning one string up effectively tunes all the others down to various degrees.
In a year if he keeps playing he'll despise lighter strings, if I am any judge of the matter!
 
NKD said:
Honestly, this just reminds me clearly how much of a giant turd I was at his age, lol.

My first Floyd experience was........ angry. Even just doing a simple drop D is screwed. The first string change nightmare. The first string change I used slightly different gauge! EEEERRRRG!!

In fact, after my first Floyd guitar (late 80's RG550) I swore off trems for 25 years. I mean, I am not exactly a stunt guitarist to begin with.
All that said, owning a floyd made me aware of more things and I learned how to work with them. You start to get the hang of the idea tuning one string up effectively tunes all the others down to various degrees.
In a year if he keeps playing he'll despise lighter strings, if I am any judge of the matter!
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I had a RG550 too. Bought it new, 1988 atlantic blue.
 
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NKD said:
In a year if he keeps playing he'll despise lighter strings, if I am any judge of the matter!
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I just had my electric setup with heavier strings, a better match up to my acoustic so when I switch back and forth the delta isn't so dramatic.

I paid $77 at Harry's to have the guitar setup and restrung (parts and labor). They commented on how poorly it was setup before and that's because it wasn't. I pulled it out of the box, tuned it up and started playing. Maybe next time I'll watch some youtube vids and learn to do it myself. Maybe.
 
I still have an RG560. Why I don't know, but it's the only functioning trem guitar I have.
 
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Jayne said:
I just had my electric setup with heavier strings, a better match up to my acoustic so when I switch back and forth the delta isn't so dramatic.

I paid $77 at Harry's to have the guitar setup and restrung (parts and labor). They commented on how poorly it was setup before and that's because it wasn't. I pulled it out of the box, tuned it up and started playing. Maybe next time I'll watch some youtube vids and learn to do it myself. Maybe.
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So, does it play better?
 
NKD said:
So, does it play better?
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I honestly can't tell much on the setup vs not setup, but the strings are noticeable and 'better'. Switching between the heavy acoustic and super lite (9s?) that were on the electric I would always end up deflecting the electric strings in strange ways when doing 3 finger power and barre chords. Now not so much. It's just hiding my poor technique, sorta like a light trigger hides poor technique. :)
 
Jayne said:
I honestly can't tell much on the setup vs not setup, but the strings are noticeable and 'better'. Switching between the heavy acoustic and super lite (9s?) that were on the electric I would always end up deflecting the electric strings in strange ways when doing 3 finger power and barre chords. Now not so much. It's just hiding my poor technique, sorta like a light trigger hides poor technique. :)
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Learning on acoustic is great as it really develops the hand strength quickly, imo.
 
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