Help me understand, striker fire versus DA/SA and why

fieldgrade

fieldgrade

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There's lots of discussion on the board about CZ's versus Glocks.

Looks like apples and oranges to me, unless there is some reason I should be ignoring that first DAO shot from a DA/SA pistol.

Somebody school me on how one overcomes an aversion to this. Not that I'm planning to. I just want to better understand the leap from SAO to DA/SA.
 
fieldgrade said:
There's lots of discussion on the board about CZ's versus Glocks.

Looks like apples and oranges to me, unless there is some reason I should be ignoring that first DAO shot from a DA/SA pistol.

Somebody school me on how one overcomes an aversion to this. Not that I'm planning to. I just want to better understand the leap from SAO to DA/SA.
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1st of all, the safety version of the cz sp01 can be carried cocked and locked so the da is moot. Or you can convert it to sao. But as someone whose main experience was with striker fired guns, I love my cz sp01 and I am not looking back. I plan to keep my xdm for home defense because the wife knows it. The cz is my comp gun now.
 
I will say an sp-01 with Cajun gun works goodies certainly helps with that first pull.
 
Climberman said:
1st of all, the safety version of the cz sp01 can be carried cocked and locked so the da is moot. Or you can convert it to sao. But as someone whose main experience was with striker fired guns, I love my cz sp01 and I am not looking back. I plan to keep my xdm for home defense because the wife knows it. The cz is my comp gun now.
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I'm just sorting this out in my anal retentive grey matter. If you want to carry cocked and locked (and I have with 1911's) that's what we are talking about, correct? Or hammer down with one in the chamber, but first shot is DAO. Am I getting this?
 
Also, the difference in trigger is overrated in my opinion. I shoot my ar a fair amount and it's trigger is different from my xdm which is different from the cz. No big deal.
 
Climberman said:
Also, the difference in trigger is overrated in my opinion. I shoot my ar a fair amount and it's trigger is different from my xdm which is different from the cz. No big deal.
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You're talking to a guy who can't shoot a 1911 at a match without an AD, or ND, depending on who you ask. Most of them go downrange.
 
fieldgrade said:
I'm just sorting this out in my anal retentive grey matter. If you want to carry cocked and locked (and I have with 1911's) that's what we are talking about, correct? Or hammer down with one in the chamber, but first shot is DAO. Am I getting this?
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You can carry hammer cocked safety on like a 1911 or hammer down da/sa
 
Climberman said:
I'll tell you what, I am willing to meet up and let you try my sp01 any time you want to.
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Same here. I have one with a safety and one with a decocker. I also have another with Cajun gun work goodies installed.
Happy to let you try one @fieldgrade
 
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fieldgrade said:
Or hammer down with one in the chamber, but first shot is DAO. Am I getting this?
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AFAIK, yep. Imagine a DA revolver that stays cocked after the 1st round... My Sig was my education (not that I learned much). 1st shot is "DAO", next is a lot lighter. Takes some getting used to. (It helped that my first semi auto pistol was a Ruger KP95 DAO) And I've never fired it under stress, which I imagine would make a Yuge difference w/o LOTS of practice.

I'm not against cocked & locked either; I just try to understand the particulars of whatever I'm shooting.
 
I'll also go on record that I've replaced more than 5 Glocks with cz's. I've also switched out my carry gun from a Glock 43 to a CZ PCR.
 
I hate Glocks. They are ugly. But I can't even shoot a 1911 at a match without drama.

CZ's sound like I have to choose between DA/SA or cocked and locked.

I'll keep shooting Grocks. Less chance of someone getting hurt.
 
fieldgrade said:
I hate Glocks. They are ugly. But I can't even shoot a 1911 at a match without drama.

CZ's sound like I have to choose between DA/SA or cocked and locked.

I'll keep shooting Grocks. Less chance of someone getting hurt.
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Consider this, with da/sa you will only have one wild shot going down range.
 
First shot is like a da revolver. Following shot is a 1911 until decocked. Ouch.
 
The metal frame definitely helps with the da though.

They make a polomer sp01 phantom if you happen to find a unicorn.
 
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fieldgrade said:
I'm just sorting this out in my anal retentive grey matter. If you want to carry cocked and locked (and I have with 1911's) that's what we are talking about, correct? Or hammer down with one in the chamber, but first shot is DAO. Am I getting this?
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Da/SA is carried hammer down with one in the chamber. First round is DA, rest are SA. Mine has no external safety, the longer trigger pull eliminates the need just as it does on a DAO revolver.

SOA is just like the 1911, cocked and locked is an appropriate way to carry. Obviously it'll have an external safety

I know of no gun where you can change from DA/SA to SAO on the fly, it's a decision made for the gun, not a decision made and remade every day or week.

I assume that there is a DAO CZ. Long trigger pull on every round, again no external safety.

You want something like a Glock, I have no idea, have never even fired a striker gun...I like external hammers.
 
I enjoy the trigger on my FNX ... da/sa, decocker/safety, ambi controls. very smooth but very long trigger pull
 
JimB said:
You want something like a Glock, I have no idea, have never even fired a striker gun...
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Wait a second. Don't we have a committee that handles insubordinates like this?
Re-educated in Chads basement...with time off for good behavior..:rolleyes:
 
fieldgrade said:
There's lots of discussion on the board about CZ's versus Glocks.

Looks like apples and oranges to me, unless there is some reason I should be ignoring that first DAO shot from a DA/SA pistol.

Somebody school me on how one overcomes an aversion to this. Not that I'm planning to. I just want to better understand the leap from SAO to DA/SA.
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Set up 2-3 targets several feet apart and then draw and put 2-3rds on each target while on a timer. The targets and timer will answer all your questions.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
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JimB said:
I know of no gun where you can change from DA/SA to SAO on the fly, it's a decision made for the gun, not a decision made and remade every day or week.
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There are nearly always exceptions to the rules .....

The Taurus PT92 has a three-position safety/decocker. Rack the slide, flip the lever up to its safety position and you have a cocked-and-locked SA pistol, while flipping the lever down to its decocker position lowers the hammer and you have a DA/SA pistol.

The CZ-75B Omega Convertible, P-07 and P-09 cannot switch on the fly, but they do ship with two sets of levers - one a manual safety and the other a decocker.
 
When you get it sussed let me know. I could never get used to the sig just because the DA/SA action. I used to carry a 1911 but I had an Askins Avenger holster for it that actually blocked the hammer from the firing pin. NowI go with either striker fired or the DAO setup on most of my guns.
 
I started out with my first semi-auto handgun being a Beretta 92D (DAO). I have become proficient with DAO, DA/SA, Striker fired (both DA and SA types), and SAO. Like anything it takes practice to become proficient with whatever firearm you have. I primarily compete with a revolver, and as of late (the last year) I have been competing also with a 1911. People talk about this trigger or that, but after using a revolver that has a 12lb trigger in matches that require 150-400 rounds I have found that I all that really matters to me is that the trigger works.

What about striker fired DA as opposed to striker fired SA, since we are in a discussion about trigger types?
 
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One big difference for me is the take up on the trigger. A striker fired gun has more take up with little to no tension in the trigger. This tends to allow my hands, and sight picture to wander. Since the trigger finger is coming back with no resistance for a little bit.

With a DA trigger, there is immediate resistance on the trigger finger. For some reason this steadies my sight picture a lot. And I don't really notice the next shots being SAO. I shoot my CZ75b as well starting DAO as I do starting SAO. But I don't shoot my glock or XD as well on the first shot any more.

Once things get rolling the follow up shots are OK. I notice the biggest difference in triggers on the first one. Probably because I ride the reset on any of them, less take up on follow up shots I guess.
 
gc70 said:
The Taurus PT92 has a three-position safety/decocker. Rack the slide, flip the lever up to its safety position and you have a cocked-and-locked SA pistol, while flipping the lever down to its decocker position lowers the hammer and you have a DA/SA pistol.
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So if you carry in condition 1, you draw, disengage the safety and with the adrenaline pumping decock it? That seems kinda not great when you're in a hurry.
 
JimB said:
So if you carry in condition 1, you draw, disengage the safety and with the adrenaline pumping decock it? That seems kinda not great when you're in a hurry.
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Yeah but it will still fire in D/A
 
Like @Wahoo95 said, for some folks, simple is better. The two schools of thought are:

1.) with a striker fire you have but one trigger pull to learn and condition for. Striker fire IMO is somewhere between SAO and DAO as the trigger pull "cocks" the striker the last little bit then drops it.

2.) with a DA/SA you must learn both the first round DA trigger pull and the subsequent SA for the rest. Learning both trigger pulls comes with the trade off that the SA pull is typically better (shorter and lighter ) than a striker fire action.

Some DA/SA pistols have the advantage of being carried cocked and locked as @Climberman said but depending on the competition you may have to start hammer down like in USPSA production division.

@fieldgrade: if ND's are an issue you may find that a DA/SA's single action is longer and a bit heavier than what John Moses Browning blessed the world with. This isn't always the case but a good generalization.
 
Fieldgrade you are welcome to shoot any of my HK's and CZ'z if you'd like to play around with them. My Cz's are either CZ Custom jobs or Cajun Gun Works and are smooth like butter. 2 of my HK's are stock. One has some rounds and it is good. The other is still a bit stiff and newish. My P30sk has a trigger system more Glock like. DAO with a long light takeup and about a 3.5 lb break.

One more thing to consider. How do most AD's and Glock legs happen? Most likely on re-holstering. With a hammer fired DA/SA I practice re-holstering with my thumb on the hammer. If it moves I know. So if a shirt or something gets in the holster you have a very good chance of NOT putting a hole in your leg or butt. I don't game so my thoughts are simply for EDC use.
 
Slappy McTrigger said:
Like @Wahoo95 said, for some folks, simple is better. The two schools of thought are:

1.) with a striker fire you have but one trigger pull to learn and condition for. Striker fire IMO is somewhere between SAO and DAO as the trigger pull "cocks" the striker the last little bit then drops it.
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On a Grock... Not on my M&P, fairly long light take up, then the just kinda long breaking pull. The striker is fully cocked by the slide action and the trigger only releases it. No clue about an XD or a CZ tupperware gun...
 
I think a better comparison than CZ vs Glock for Ash to try out as a demonstration of DA/SA vs striker fire would be to take my Sig SP2022 to the range and shoot it beside his G19. The Sig is DA/SA with decocker and no safety. The SA trigger is pretty good. The DA must be 12 lbs, and feels like it's about a foot long.
 
Oh, and Ash - if you buy a damned CZ, keep it to yourself. I don't have the cash for one right now.
 
@fieldgrade I will be at PHA Sunday am with several CZs. I have steel frames, aluminum frames, polymer frames, decockers and safety's, full size and compact with and without rail, 9mm and .45acp, I even have a CZ striker fired pistol you can try out.
 
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OldSchool said:
On a Grock... Not on my M&P, fairly long light take up, then the just kinda long breaking pull. The striker is fully cocked by the slide action and the trigger only releases it. No clue about an XD or a CZ tupperware gun...
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Ammoparts.com said:
Xd's are the same, they just release the striker
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That would explain why they feel more like an extra long SA on a DA/SA pistol than a Grock. Taught me something new. I only have Grocks for striker fire pistols.
 
fieldgrade said:
CZ's sound like I have to choose between DA/SA or cocked and locked.
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Think of it as, when there's a round in the chamber, it'll go bang when you pull the trigger. Don't matter where the hammer is.

fieldgrade said:
I'll keep shooting Grocks. Less chance of someone getting hurt.
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That's a statement I never thought I'd read. You mus' be th'owed off big time! :eek:
 
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