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BigWaylon

BigWaylon

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I’ve never tried this before, but don’t know why it wouldn’t work. Curious if anybody has ever done it or knows whether or not there would be any issues (audio delay, etc).

We got rid of my receiver and big speakers in the living room in favor of a soundbar. But I’m not trashing/selling/etc the speakers, and they’re not easily replaceable. So, I stuck them in our bonus room/home theater. I’m already hooked up in a 7.2 setup. But my front mains are identical to the speakers that got moved.

Can I run an audio out from the main receiver upstairs to the relocated receiver, and use it to power the relocated speakers? And then I’d have two pair putting out the same sound?

0289D72B-FE8C-4016-9610-F1F5B00AE9E1.jpeg

The outer two were existing. I put the two relocated speakers between them and the shelves just to have somewhere to put them. That’s what triggered the idea/question. (Ignore the small ones on top…those were the surrounds downstairs that are just sitting there for now)

And yes, I painted the entire wall behind all the stuff black years ago. It’s magical when the sun goes down and the lights are out. 😎
 
No luck so far. Found the setting to activate Zone 2 and selected the line out (instead of speaker level) output. Test tone came though the new speakers, but then no actual sound.

Gonna try a different plan next. Optical audio out from the TV into the new receiver. Just have to pick up a cable.
 
Here’s a possible alternative solution. They make transformer boxes with switches that will impedance match multiple speakers to the line output (typically 8 ohms). This way you can run multiple pairs of speakers from one output. We did this in our old house where we had speakers mounted in multiple rooms.
 
noway2 said:
Here’s a possible alternative solution. They make transformer boxes with switches that will impedance match multiple speakers to the line output (typically 8 ohms). This way you can run multiple pairs of speakers from one output. We did this in our old house where we had speakers mounted in multiple rooms.
Click to expand...
Can you post a link to an example?

Wouldn’t I be losing power that way if I only used one amp? Or does the transformer box power all the outputs
 
@BigWaylon something like this: https://pyleusa.com/products/pss4. I found a similar one on Amazon but Amazon links don’t see to Work well in XF which I think tries to render them.

Your amplifier will have to put out more current for the same volume, but because of the transformer it is still getting maximum power transfer (source and load have same impedance).

Heres a video on the principle:
 
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What you’re doing won’t give you much enhancement. Far better to remove your tiny center speaker and wire up these as a replacement. You get 98% of the benefit with wiring just one up, the other can just sit there, and it’s almost zero work.
 
JimB said:
What you’re doing won’t give you much enhancement. Far better to remove your tiny center speaker and wire up these as a replacement. You get 98% of the benefit with wiring just one up, the other can just sit there, and it’s almost zero work.
Click to expand...
It’s more a case of I just wanna do it. 😁

That “tiny” center speaker is actually the same as the top half of the floor standing speakers…just 2-way instead of 4-way. I mean, I guess I could slide the two shelf units apart and out one tall one in the middle, but I’d like to see how it sounds with the big ones doubled up. 😎
 
Tried again this morning with a digital optic cable, still nothing. Just weird. Ought to be simple.
 
What’s the receiver brand and model for the downstairs.
edit. And the upstairs receiver brand and model.

zone 2 usually is when powering a second set of speakers in a different location vs passing a signal to be used by another receiver (which is what I think you want).
 
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DaveInCLT said:
What’s the receiver brand and model for the downstairs.
edit. And the upstairs receiver brand and model.

zone 2 usually is when powering a second set of speakers in a different location vs passing a signal to be used by another receiver (which is what I think you want).
Click to expand...
It gives me an option during setup for Zone 2. I can either lose 7.2 and drop to 5.2 in order to power Z2…or I can keep 7.2 and use a preamp signal for Z2. I’m doing the second.

Main receiver is an Onkyo TX-NR656 (which I’m using the line out).
Second receiver is a Kenwood VR-309.

The Kenwood shouldn’t care. It has the red/white plugged into Video 1, just like I used it downstairs.

The Onkyo should be pushing the signal through the Line Out jacks. As I mentioned before, I get the test signal during the Onkyo setup process, but then nothing later.

And I haven’t gotten anything through the Kenwood when using the optical out on the TV or the red/white out from the TV. That seems odd as well. Isn’t that how I’d hook up a soundbar?

The Kenwood worked downstairs. But I guess I need to plug something else (unrelated to all this) into in and make sure it’s working fine.
 
I (still) have the a Kenwood receiver (55b) and power amp I bought in 1986. It’s what I used in the high point house with the transformer switch. I never could get the zone 2 speaker output to work, and it even has a button. Just no signal, nada.
 
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Kenwood is fine. Just pulled the RCA cables out of the Onkyo and plugged then into my iPad (only thing I could find with a port). Sound came through just fine.

183BDEC5-541D-45B6-8390-C08E92745F6C.jpeg
 
Have you tried it with over-the-air radio? There have been some DRM schemes over the years that might interfere with a digital path to a second device. Not sure why the analog audio path (red and white rca jacks) didn’t work.

I know that you’re curious, but I’m guessing the audio will be off by a millisec or two. Maybe okay for gaming, but for movies I’d expect it to have a bit of echo.
 
Haven’t tried radio.

Maybe when my family is back at school, I’ll just see if @DaveInCLT wants to run over here and make sure I’m not missing something obvious.
 
Yep glad to come over and help.

From receiver to receiver the easiest answer will be if your downstairs has two hdmi outs (some do) and you could feed the second out from downstairs into an input into your upstairs receiver. If they’re older you may need something similar to a tape monitor loop but you wouldn’t get as many options on the sound processing in your upstairs setup.

edit downstairs receiver has 2 hdmi outs but upstairs is old school and doesn’t look like it has an hdmi input.

Another option is to split signal going into receiver easiest done if you only play from one source or only care about one source being duplicated upstairs. I may have some old splitter boxes here you can have that’ll do that but will take some stored tote diving

Probably 29th or later before I can get there in person due to holiday stuff but we can figure something out.
 
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No HDMI on the Kenwood.

And yeah, I’m talking after the 2nd…I’ll text you.
 
I think one of these will get the job done, I'll want to research your downstairs receiver to make sure the dual HDMI outputs work like I think they will.

Amazon.com

a.co
(there are cheaper varieties, but this one seems to have the best reviews and fewer "stopped working after a week" reviews

Your old Kenwood upstairs has a toslink / PCM that we'd connect out of the converter box linked above.

Don't buy any cables, I'm pretty sure I have spare HDMI and optical digital cables laying round here not used.
 
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DaveInCLT said:
I think one of these will get the job done, I'll want to research your downstairs receiver to make sure the dual HDMI outputs work like I think they will.

Amazon.com

a.co
(there are cheaper varieties, but this one seems to have the best reviews and fewer "stopped working after a week" reviews

Your old Kenwood upstairs has a toslink / PCM that we'd connect out of the converter box linked above.

Don't buy any cables, I'm pretty sure I have spare HDMI and optical digital cables laying round here not used.
Click to expand...
One of those will be here today. I’ll see what happens. 🤣
 
If you have an old DVD player with TOSlnk (or any other device with a digital optical output) I'd suggest plugging it into your receiver upstairs to confirm it plays OK - settings on input are right, etc.

If you don't I'm sure I have one somewhere you can borrow.
 
maybe I might be missing something you just want audio?
line out on System 1 to line in system 2 whether it be "AUX IN"
system 1 will send audio to system 2 when source set to "AUX IN" in this
example, most A/V receivers have optical ports.
Maybe reading it all wrong and if so sorry.

most of what I have is old school vintage. Tube Amps, use a DBX patch bay
can run ins / outs from the receivers / Pre-Amps / Amps.
Plus a DAW, Multi-track R2R Tascam / Teac, 12 to 4 to 2 mixing boards.
had planned on setting up a studio decades ago..

Have S-video switchers, HDMI switchers, the later has 5 in / 1 out, Raspberry Pi
(media server) Computers, etc.

-Snoopz
 
Snoopz said:
maybe I might be missing something you just want audio?
line out on System 1 to line in system 2 whether it be "AUX IN"
system 1 will send audio to system 2 when source set to "AUX IN" in this
example, most A/V receivers have optical ports.
Maybe reading it all wrong and if so sorry.
Click to expand...
You’re not missing anything. It should be that simple. But I get no audio (other than the test signal) when I do that from the main receiver.

And I get nothing at all when I come out of the TV itself with RCA or optical.

And I got nothing using the HDMI splitter I tried a couple days ago.

It’s gotta be something simple I’m missing, but I just haven’t figured it out.
 
Need to move to a ‘unit test‘ mode to narrow down specifically what’s not working.

assuming you are using hdmi output downstairs to optical input upstairs

1) get an old cd or dvd or other media player with an optical toslink out and make sure it plays ok upstairs when directly plugged in. If it doesn’t get your settings working so it does.

2). use the 2nd hdmi out on your receiver and plug a cable into an open hdmi input on your tv downstairs. Play something on your downstairs system and toggle to that input on your tv to see if you see/hear something.
 
so help me understand this, the Onkyo TX-NR656 is a smart menu setup receiver? I'm looking through
the manual and have you set things up correctly? downloaded the manual 145 pages I'm thinking it may
have to do with the settings Volume zone 2 or some of the settings. Zone 2 out to either CD / Tape Input
on the Kenwood VR-309.
read through the post again plug something into one of the inputs Tape / CD, make sure you have the volume
turned down on whatever you use to provide audio input, if it's giving you a test tone it's probably looking for
or trying to sense something on the input. I'm sure someone will beat me to it. Have the manuals, so will do some
quick reading. It's simple I'm sure

or.
take the Kenwood bring it upstairs, set it next to the Onkyo, set of head phones plugged into the Kenwood, go
through the settings in the Onyx, use cables that work, trouble shoot it that way.

just a shot, make sure you got a cable you know works.
had an issue with a cable no related to this but trying to transfer video from
one of my digital video cams via firewire, using Adobe Premier come to find
out the "brand new" firewire cable was bad

-Snoopz
 
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Snoopz said:
take the Kenwood bring it upstairs, set it next to the Onkyo, set of head phones plugged into the Kenwood, go
through the settings in the Onyx, use cables that work, trouble shoot it that way.
Click to expand...
There’s no upstairs and downstairs. They’re sitting ~12” apart…as seen in the pic in the first post.

I’ve run an RCA cable from my iPad to the Kenwood and it works. But when I move them from the iPad to the Zone 2 Out of the Onkyo, I get nothing. Well, nothing other than the test signal when I select “using a preamp” (or however it’s worded) from the on-TV-screen menu.

That setting is done under the Initial Setup menu. I’ve done that. However, there’s a Zone 2 submenu that I can’t select. I’m guessing that may be part of the problem, but haven’t figured out how to turn that on.

Then I have the weird issue of I don’t even get anything when running straight from audio out on the TV to the Kenwood. I tried both RCA and optical…nothing.

What I’m wondering is if having HDMI cables connected with through the ARC ports might disable those out ports? That shouldn’t be the case, but I haven’t unplugged the HDMI and see if that changes anything.
 
JimB said:
I know that you’re curious, but I’m guessing the audio will be off by a millisec or two. Maybe okay for gaming, but for movies I’d expect it to have a bit of echo.
Click to expand...
Good news, bad news.

In trying to rule out what was/wasn’t working, I tried something completely different. I switched over to DirecTV for the source, and ran a digital audio cable from that box to the Kenwood. Full audio (from HDMI) out of the Onkyo, and full audio out of the Kenwood. But the delay/echo that @JimB anticipated was definitely an issue.

I guess there’s a chance it wouldn’t be there if I got it hooked up the way I imagined, but I have serious doubts that would be the case.

So I’m just gonna quit trying at this point. My son games using headphones w/ mic, so all we’d really use the full setup for is movies…and that echo would be unbeatable.
 
Can you set a discrete delay on output or each speaker in your setup on the Onkyo? if you can might be able to eliminate or significantly lessen the echo. Looks like you can
———-

TX-NR656

www.onkyo.com

Other​

A/V Sync :
If the video is behind the audio, you can delay the audio to offset the gap. Different settings can be set for each input selector.
It cannot be set if the listening mode is Pure Audio (European, Australian and Asian models) or Direct.

——-
However if you do this you will likely create a slight out of sync condition with the video so the lips on the screen don’t quite match up. Some folks (like me) are sensitive to that, others don’t care. I’d give it a try to see if it’s acceptable
 
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