Home defense 12 gauge load?

Lager

Lager

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I just acquired a 12 gauge Mossburg defender shotgun and I was wondering on your thoughts of the best home defense load to use in it?? Im concerned about over penetration and one shot shut down qualities..I always thought the Turkey load would give the best results but I would like your thoughts.. Im talking strictly home defense inside the house and actually thought bird shot would be best since distance is very limited and there are kids bed rooms in the way of the entry points.
 
I know alot of people say 00 buck but check out the terminal ballistics and research on #3 buck. That was always my setup, not that I ever had to use it.
 
First shot is #8 in mine. Second is a 3” no4 buck, like 41 pellets or something. I’m gonna make hamburger
 
It depends, on whether you can absolutely hit your intended target every time with every pellet or if you may be concerned on rounds going through drywall into another room where a family member may be.

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Love2shoot said:
Seriously though, it doesn't matter they just run when you rack it right? o_O
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I put loudspeakers all around the perimeter of my house. When someone trips the IR sensor, this sound is triggered. I've found it much cheaper than an actual shotgun and ammo. :D

 
I run this stuff ...
https://www.outdoorlimited.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=le13200brick

At home defense distances you are not going to get any real opening in pattern to speak of so penetration is really the main variable then. Birdshot will dig out an ugly divot pretty dang well while 00 Buck will drill dig a big crater. A minor variable is the penetration into stuff, mainly walls and other structural stuff, if you miss and into the next room ... birdshot will penetrate at least a complete wall but is at least slowed down somewhat where most any Buck will carry more umph. Personally my home setup and lines of fire don’t cause much concern for worrying about wall penetration so I run Federal Flight ControlLow Recoil 00 Buck ... it cycles 99.99% in my M1S90, clocks about 1150 FPS so carries good energy at my HD distances and the lower felt recoil allows me to dump 8 rounds into a B-27 target at 40’ (my longest line of sight in my home).

I will suggest that you pattern your shotgun at 10’, 20’, 30’ & 40’ so you know what your shot pattern looks like at varying distances. Be aware different loads have different spreads at the same distance ... Federal Flight Control 00 Buck patterns at least 30% less than regular 00 Buck out of my M1S90 at 40’ I can almost cover the spread with one hand while regular S&B 00 Buck is almost twice the size. Yes, you’re still going to aim center mass most of the time but if you need to cut a corner someone’s hiding behind it pays to know how your stuff acts.

A wise man told ... “Handguns put holes in people, rifles shot thru people ... shotguns knock chunks off people!”
 
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If you want the best compromise between penetration and pattern give BB or #2 a try.

True birdshot (7.5 to #9) is only gonna piss someone off, you need some penetration, not just a surface wound. 00 buck is an over penetrator for sure unless you have sufficient distance to target.
 
Bailey Boat said:
If you want the best compromise between penetration and pattern give BB or #2 a try.

True birdshot (7.5 to #9) is only gonna piss someone off, you need some penetration, not just a surface wound. 00 buck is an over penetrator for sure unless you have sufficient distance to target.
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A 7/8oz pile of lead at 1220fps is just going to cause a surface wound and piss someone off? At room distance? Really? Do tell.

Although for clarification. The reason my chambered round is birdshot is because I’m more likely to use it for pest control then sd:)
 
Trevillian said:
A 7/8oz pile of lead at 1220fps is just going to cause a surface wound and piss someone off? At room distance? Really? Do tell.

Although for clarification. The reason my chambered round is birdshot is because I’m more likely to use it for pest control then sd:)
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It sure as hell won't have the penetration and energy of a load with larger size shot, now will it??
 
Bailey Boat said:
It sure as hell won't have the penetration and energy of a load with larger size shot, now will it??
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Nope, sure won’t. Not disputing that. Just that bird shot at 15’ will do more than “piss someone off”;)

Think imma do a little “test” brb:)

Also for clarification to the OP. As I mentioned I run #4 buck personally, but do have birdshot chambered first. I’m more likely to need to remove a pest rather than a threat. But aside from that birdshot doing plenty at in house distance in the first place. An actual threat will be getting more than one round, so should the threat be wearing a super heavy coat or some such. They will get more until the threat is stopped.
 
To quote TBOT “Birdshot is for little birdies”

buck or slugs are the appropriate load for two-legged predators. If over-penetration is a serious concern that you cannot mitigate by controlling your environment then maybe a firearm is not your best choice for the situation. You aren’t going to find a magic bullet that will take down a BG but not damage your loved ones.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/
 
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Just did a wholly non-scientific, impromtu "test"...

Federal #8 shot 1 1/8oz (the cheap stuff). Out of an imp. cyl. 18.5" Mossberg pump. At 20'.

A piece of 1x12 white pine I had laying around.
IMG_20180715_115557421_HDR.jpg
IMG_20180715_115631772_HDR.jpg IMG_20180715_115557421_HDR.jpg IMG_20180715_115631772_HDR.jpg

Now same material but through an old pair of Carhartt pants. 4-6 layers of material.
IMG_20180715_120223225_HDR.jpg IMG_20180715_120544728_HDR.jpg

Only one penetrated fully with the carhartts.





Just thought it would be interesting. AGAIN I vote for #4 buck. But I don't feel undergunned by having my chambered round as bird shot:)
 
Federal LE123-1B
15 #1 Buck pellets, out to 10-15 yards out of my 590A1 stays in a fist sized group.

I have no over penetration issues based on my situation (insert bad joke here), however YMMV.

I have dispatched coyotes out to about 30 yards without issue on the farm.

However I keep the magazine downloaded by two, 4 birdshot in the speedfeed stock and 4 extra shells on the side saddle, with 2 slugs simply just because.
 
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I don't Dutch load. Mostly because I don't think I'm smart enough to remember which load is which once the lead starts flying.

I've put birdshot through drywall on a test range. I'm not gonna sling it in any ol direction in my house as a result. Not that buck wouldn't be worse. Bird just isn't a solution there. Discretion is....

Like an earlier poster already said, sight lines and shooting lanes being what they are I'm not worried about over penetration.

Federal LE12700 is what the tube is loaded with. Sidesaddle split between more of the same and Brenneke slugs.
 
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Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot.

00 buck is too much.
 
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It doesn't matter what load, the moment you rack it the criminal will evacuate their bowels and run. A Marine Seal Scout Comms Aerospace Sniper told me that in a gun store so it must be true.
 
S4f said:
I keep a 12 gauge loaded with polyshock handy around the house, it's not sold under this name anymore, but I think it's available under the max stop brand, devastating round with out the risk of over penetration.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kAR5LD2DO0U&ved=0ahUKEwjT-bbrxKHcAhUCbq0KHQz6AD0QwqsBCCgwAA&usg=AOvVaw1JDIyY3f8UTNgRzZnyLhrd
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That seems to be a modern and more advanced version of wax slugs. My Grandpa and Uncle would take #8 birdshot and Gulf Wax and Make wax slugs for use in their old double barrels. Basically they took the field loads, cut the very top of the shell off, melted the Gulf Wax, poured the shot into the melted wax and spooned it back into the shell to cool and set up. The wadding protected and cushioned the wax slug enough to not fly apart or melt when fired. They’d tear up whatever would mess with the livestock from varmints to even the occasional feral dog.
 
NCFubar said:
That seems to be a modern and more advanced version of wax slugs. My Grandpa and Uncle would take #8 birdshot and Gulf Wax and Make wax slugs for use in their old double barrels. Basically they took the field loads, cut the very top of the shell off, melted the Gulf Wax, poured the shot into the melted wax and spooned it back into the shell to cool and set up. The wadding protected and cushioned the wax slug enough to not fly apart or melt when fired. They’d tear up whatever would mess with the livestock from varmints to even the occasional feral dog.
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Not sure where the idea came from, but had a family member who did demonstrations for the original polyshock company, one of which I was invited to attend. One of the demonstrations was two one gallon milk jugs filled water set 12 inches apart in line then shot with a 12 gauge at a distance of 6 feet, the first jug disappeared leaving only the bottom of the jug no projectiles entered the second jug.pretty impressive demonstration.
Last I heard Homeland security had purchased rounds from the new company, but that was a couple of years ago so I have to admit I'm not sure of the new company is still making these, the 4 boxes I have are marked Leo, but if you run across any of these at a gun show, I recommend you snatch them up
 
You have to admit, its been an interesting conversation and I glad I bought it up.. For those that have thought that bird shot would be an effective round ( Like I was ) member Trevillian not only gave us his thoughts but backed it up with pics!! Really want to thank everyone that has participated, I know I learned a lot...
 
When looking at the various ways you can act and the possible ways an intruder would react it could be as simple and easy as the intruder leaving when he see you have a firearm to maybe a blast of birdshot making them compliant to full on shot ‘til the threat stops buck. I tend to think most intruders would actually be repelled by the lower levels BUT I am not going to bet my family’s safety on it ... preparing for the worst case scenario really only is bad for the intruder. Knowing more in-depth how your firearm, ammo and such act as well as what actions can and can’t be done with each setup is big ... learning it ballistics and training for taking advantage of them is major ... find a good shotgun class and take it ... Apex Defense, Defensive Concepts and others offer a good intro to it.
 


Here is another demonstration. I fall on the side of “bird shot isn’t optimal, but inside of 5-7 yards it will be ok.”

I personally load with buckshot, the longest distance in my house I could conceivable shoot from would be well under 10 yards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I use wax slugs made from birdshot. They're cheap and effective and if I'm using my shotgun indoors I've already lost my mind and my hearing
 
Bailey Boat said:
So I have to ask, after everything in this thread who still has birdshot in their HD gun?? Has anyone learned anything??
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I've still got #4 3" duck loads coming out of a 26" barrel. Do you want to come over and break in to prove whether or not they will do the job?
 
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SPST said:
I've still got #4 3" duck loads coming out of a 26" barrel. Do you want to come over and break in to prove whether or not they will do the job?
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#4 ain't "birdshot"..... Lead or steel??? Have you done any testing with them??

I wonder if we'll ever see the day when we have to use non toxic against criminals?? Wouldn't surprise me!!!
 
Bailey Boat said:
#4 ain't "birdshot"..... Lead or steel??? Have you done any testing with them??

I wonder if we'll ever see the day when we have to use non toxic against criminals?? Wouldn't surprise me!!!
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I've shot an old refrigerator door with them from about 10 yards. Makes a nice baseball size hole in it. I've still got some old lead but I'm not sure if that's what's in it or not. I wouldn't want to get hit with either one of them.
 
Bailey Boat said:
So I have to ask, after everything in this thread who still has birdshot in their HD gun?? Has anyone learned anything??
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well, I STILL have 00 buck in mine, but its not like anyone has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that bird shot is not effective. Granted, it is not AS effective, but in the typical setting inside a home, I have not been convinced that bird shot is not lethal. For every anecdotal presentation that bird shot is not effective, another anectotal presentation can be offered that it IS, ergo, this boils down in large part to opinion and need. If I have family in a room that can be subjected to penetrating shotgun pellets, you can damned sure bet the pellets in my shotgun wont be any form of buckshot... (it probably wont be bird shot either.... I would probably opt for #4 shot or bb)
 
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Since I first discovered online gun forums sometime circa 2006 or 2007, I must've participated in 1,345,298 variations of this particular discussion. Many of them end in butthurt because of differences of opinions..... And that's all they are is opinions.....

Some of those opinions are informed by actual hostile contact. Some are informed by the individual circumstances of the living space of the person opining. Some are based on gun shop/gun forum wisdom....

None are necessarily wrong or right as they are opinions....

Carry on y'all and load your shotgun how you wish. Bird, buck, slug, bolo, dragon's breath, fairy dust.... it's up to you....
 
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