HS6...opinions?

Timfoilhat

Timfoilhat

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So I've built a 16 inch barrel AR9 for giggles. I'm planning to see how fast I can get a 90 grain solid copper projectile to leave the muzzle. My typical target/plinking powder is TG and that's probably going to have a bad pressure spike, so I went to nearly the opposite end of the scale with HS6.
How have you guys done with HS6 and 9mm?
 
Tag.
I used it with 90gr .380 Boolits in a 9 major pistol for steel. It liked to be compressed.
My issue was dwell/back pressure from such a light bullet. You gotta stoke it hot and crimp hard.
 
I have no experience with HS6 in 9mm, but I have used it in 45acp. It appears to me that it does not work well AT ALL at low pressures. So, what @Slacker said does not surprise me.

As far as 9mm in a 16" barrel, I've had very good luck with Power Pistol and 115gn FMJ bullets, where I got 1500fps with a mid-range charge. I get better than 2.5" groups at 100 yards, and have no problems hitting 8" steel at 200 yards with it (lots of drop and spin-drift, though). Max charges did not give as good and accuracy and were not that much faster. The highest velocity I got was with AA#7 but the accuracy was not as good.

If I were purely looking for max velocity in a 16" barrel, I would go with the slowest burning powder that is appropriate for 9mm.
 
I remember several years ago a guy on the KTOG forum experimented with this with a sub2000 and claims he got over 2000fps with 90gr bullets and a slower powder, I believe it was Long Shot but I could be wrong.
 

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Flashpoint said:
I remember several years ago a guy on the KTOG forum experimented with this with a sub2000 and claims he got over 2000fps with 90gr bullets and a slower powder, I believe it was Long Shot but I could be wrong.
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In looking at that chart, everything slower than Longshot is what I would consider to be a magnum pistol or rifle powder.
 
The load chart on the projectiles says 1380 FPS is doable with 7.5 grain of HS6 in a 4 inch barrel. This is the fastest load they show. I'm thinking (more like guessing) there's a velocity increase there to about 1700 fps just for the 16" barrel and I should be able to work up the load while watching for pressure. Stop me if that's a bad idea. I'd like to hit 2000 fps.
 
If you’re making a projectile anyway, think about how you’d optimize it for loading long to gain case capacity, assuming that you’re not going to mag feed.
 
JimB said:
If you’re making a projectile anyway, think about how you’d optimize it for loading long to gain case capacity, assuming that you’re not going to mag feed.
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Not making them. Lehigh copper. They're pretty squat already and the bottom on the round is concave. Here's a photo of one next to a 115 Berry's plated
 

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Take a look at VV 3N38 powder but the HS6 should serve you well.


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I experimented some with the Fort Scott Munitions tumbling projectiles. I believe mine were 80 gr. and I think I hit ~1500 FPS using Power Pistol. I want to say Silhouette has some 65 gr. loads that get up near 1700 FPS.
 
ncav8tor said:
Take a look at VV 3N38 powder but the HS6 should serve you well.


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Click to expand...
There's something fishy going on with V-V 3N38. I've loaded thousands of their 147 gr. @ 1204 FPS loads (6.9 gr. 3N38) and never got close to 1200 FPS (though others claim to have hit it). I started using Gordon's Reloading Tool and noticed that it claimed a 6.9 gr. load would overflow the case. I worked with Charlie at GRT and we calculated the actual density (I was able to fit 10.2 gr. uncompressed in a 9x19 case). He then calculated the pressure of their book load (147 gr. @ 1204 FPS) and found it would was ~38.5K PSI. V-V's load data claims their loadings are within SAAMI spec. Charlie also noticed some weird "laddering" with V-V loadings. For example, 3N38 would under perform relative to N105 (IIRC) but would extremely outperform it with a slightly heavier projectile. Charlie reached out to V-V regarding our observations and they said they'd look into it. Within a week or two, their 147 gr. @ 1204 FPS load was removed from their website and we haven't heard back from V-V int he last 9 months or so. So, in short, V-V makes some cool powders, but I'd be careful trusting their data.
 
Timfoilhat said:
Not making them. Lehigh copper. They're pretty squat already and the bottom on the round is concave. Here's a photo of one next to a 115 Berry's plated
Click to expand...
Yeah I’d chuck it up and cut a ring closer to the base. I doubt that you could increase the depth of the base without blowing out the skirt.

Might get a hair more capacity by only neck sizing.
 
Gaston said:
There's something fishy going on with V-V 3N38. I've loaded thousands of their 147 gr. @ 1204 FPS loads (6.9 gr. 3N38) and never got close to 1200 FPS (though others claim to have hit it). I started using Gordon's Reloading Tool and noticed that it claimed a 6.9 gr. load would overflow the case. I worked with Charlie at GRT and we calculated the actual density (I was able to fit 10.2 gr. uncompressed in a 9x19 case). He then calculated the pressure of their book load (147 gr. @ 1204 FPS) and found it would was ~38.5K PSI. V-V's load data claims their loadings are within SAAMI spec. Charlie also noticed some weird "laddering" with V-V loadings. For example, 3N38 would under perform relative to N105 (IIRC) but would extremely outperform it with a slightly heavier projectile. Charlie reached out to V-V regarding our observations and they said they'd look into it. Within a week or two, their 147 gr. @ 1204 FPS load was removed from their website and we haven't heard back from V-V int he last 9 months or so. So, in short, V-V makes some cool powders, but I'd be careful trusting their data.
Click to expand...

Good info.

I use it for 38 Super Comp with 124 Gr HP, 9.7 Gr and COAL 1.235. That gives me an average of 1390 FPS out of a 5 inch compensated pistol.


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Gaston said:
I experimented some with the Fort Scott Munitions tumbling projectiles. I believe mine were 80 gr. and I think I hit ~1500 FPS using Power Pistol. I want to say Silhouette has some 65 gr. loads that get up near 1700 FPS.
Click to expand...
I'm assuming these velocities were out of a pistol.
 
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Timfoilhat said:
The load chart on the projectiles says 1380 FPS is doable with 7.5 grain of HS6 in a 4 inch barrel. This is the fastest load they show. I'm thinking (more like guessing) there's a velocity increase there to about 1700 fps just for the 16" barrel and I should be able to work up the load while watching for pressure. Stop me if that's a bad idea. I'd like to hit 2000 fps.
Click to expand...
I believe 1700fps should be possible. Not sure about the 2000, though.

I would definitely go with a true 9mm buffer, which would be very heavy. I have the Kaw Valley buffer, which I think is close to 8oz, and does not require the use of extra spacers. My gut feeling is the extra weight would help keep the gas sealed in the chamber a little longer.
 
Toprudder said:
I believe 1700fps should be possible. Not sure about the 2000, though.

I would definitely go with a true 9mm buffer, which would be very heavy. I have the Kaw Valley buffer, which I think is close to 8oz, and does not require the use of extra spacers. My gut feeling is the extra weight would help keep the gas sealed in the chamber a little longer.
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I have a Foxtrot Mike 9mm buffer installed. It's 6.4 oz and longer than an AR buffer.
You may be on to soething though because the inital loads done with TG were sooty on the outside. I was thinking the powder change would address that, but maybe more buffer weight it called for.
 
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