I do not believe the 2nd Amendment is a civil right.

Goofyfoot2001

Goofyfoot2001

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I hear this all the time, "the right to bare arms is your civil right", or some variant of that. I do not think this is correct. We have some legal eagles here so school me.

I believe the 2nd Amendment is a class of right unto itself. It is a, "right to bare arms". That is it. That's the kind of right it is. It's not a social, interactive sort of thing.

It's early and going to help out at a church breakfast this morning so I'm a little whacka doodle maybe. What do you folks think?
 
The ability to repel aggression keeps you from being a slave or subject.

The Founders understood the need for the ability to defend yourself from your own government if that time came. If you read Declaration of Independence you will see that we are told to remove the current form of government if it becomes unresponsive to the people.

The complaints that the founders had against King George were trivial compared to what has been shoved down the throats of the American people. Any politician that says we have to pass a bill to find out what's in it should be hanged for treason.

You can call it a God given right or what ever. All I know is I am from Irish Rebel stock and I've got a rebellious streak in me. I'm on the down side of life with some serious health issues so I don't have a lot to lose. I might be just a speed bump to slow a respose that allows another more capable freedom fighters escape. If it is, so be it.
 
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You are right @Goofyfoot2001, the 2nd Amendment is not a civil right, it is a civil liberty.

From the Wex Legal Dictionary:
People often confuse civil rights and civil liberties. Civil rights refer to legal provisions that stem from notions of equality. Civil rights are not in the Bill of Rights; they deal with legal protections. For example, the right to vote is a civil right. A civil liberty, on the other hand, refers to personal freedoms protected by the Bill of Rights
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Goofyfoot2001 said:
I hear this all the time, "the right to bare arms is your civil right", or some variant of that. I do not think this is correct. We have some legal eagles here so school me.

I believe the 2nd Amendment is a class of right unto itself. It is a, "right to bare arms". That is it. That's the kind of right it is. It's not a social, interactive sort of thing.

It's early and going to help out at a church breakfast this morning so I'm a little whacka doodle maybe. What do you folks think?
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All of our enumerated civil rights in the BOR are simply enumerated societal pronouncements of "Congress may not do this to people"... so in one sense they are right, but you are correct in your underlying, which is that this right would exist whether or not the Bill of Rights stated it or not.

What you are hinting at -I believe- is that the enumerated (or listed) rights in the BOR are EXPRESSIONS of rights that are granted to us by God. This is why advocates of freedom and liberty are so quick to point to the Declaration of Independence as the statement as to where these rights come from.

I think you are dead on correct. If the Congress and president were to legislatively overturn the second amendment, it would in no way erase the right. The government would just stop acknowledging it and supporting it. The right would still be there. Government does not grant rights.

Again, you are absolutely correct.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
All of our enumerated civil rights in the BOR are simply enumerated societal pronouncements of "Congress may not do this to people"... so in one sense they are right, but you are correct in your underlying, which is that this right would exist whether or not the Bill of Rights stated it or not.

What you are hinting at -I believe- is that the enumerated (or listed) rights in the BOR are EXPRESSIONS of rights that are granted to us by God. This is why advocates of freedom and liberty are so quick to point to the Declaration of Independence as the statement as to where these rights come from.

I think you are dead on correct. If the Congress and president were to legislatively overturn the second amendment, it would in no way erase the right. The government would just stop acknowledging it and supporting it. The right would still be there. Government does not grant rights.

Again, you are absolutely correct.
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So, you're saying he is correct?
 
Dave951 said:
BARE v BEAR arms. Context and spelling are fundamental to your meaning. One may well wind up in Chad's basement while the other expresses a God given right. (Wright, rite)
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Shoot if I bare my arms, I very well could be locked up for firearm by felon. Bwahaha
 
Here's a firearm.
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Hope he isn't a felon.
 
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The 2nd amendment is nothing more than a limitation placed upon our current government not to infringe upon our Natural right to self defense...with firearms. It really has nothing to do with the citizenry. Our rights preexist these imposed limitations upon government.

Even if the 2nd amendment was properly repealed in the correct constitutionality prescribed manner, we would still have those rights. The only difference is that our "government" would be free to infringe our natural right to own firearms for self defense within its own authority by passing man made laws that violate the Natural law.

Of course, that would trigger the need to dissolve the government because it would become illegitimate to many.

Become comfortable with the terms "Natural law" and "Natural right".
 
You interpret this correctly. It is not a civil right, but rather a civil liberty (as better put by our colleagues above).
 
Just a brief word on "rights" as how the founding fathers understood them.
Because many on this forum are not Christian, and may not understand where those guys were coming from when they formed the government that they did, and immediately started violating before the ink was dry.

Natural rights are given to us by our creator (God) upon the occasion of our birth. All rights are the result of a duty God has placed upon our hearts in the form of His moral law. The moral law is best represented to most people by the Ten commandments.

For illustration...God has given us the duty to never steal other people's property; Thou shalt not steal. Out of that duty to God flows our right to keep our own private property. No individual or government can take our property without our consent without violating God's natural law. This is why Socialism and Communism are inherently and demonstrably immoral. That is why the founders wrote Article 4 Section 4 in the Constitution.

God has given us the duty to never murder; Thou shalt not kill. Therefore we have the right to life. We have the right to preserve our lives, and those of our families and neighbors. Out of the duty to never murder we get our rights to self defense; from both individuals and government.

For a government to pass laws against God's Natural law is to violate the natural order of things. Banning guns is the equivalent of banning gravity...it has no authority behind it. That is why it will never work, and streers us away from civilization back toward the law of the jungle.

There is a higher principal behind the 2nd amendment than just firearms ownership. It is the limitation upon government that they not infringe our rights and ability to defend ourselves. If a better weapon...say laser guns were invented and became available to be acquired by government and foreign powers, the principal is that the citizenry should be able to acquire, own, and use them as well, as it is logical to assume that we the people would need modern applicable weapons to defend against modern threats.

The fact that our police and military can own fully automatic weapons, and the civilian cannot is already a violation of our natural self defense rights.

No free man or woman that sits on a jury should ever convict a person who has been held to violate a man made law that violates the Natural law of God.
All man made laws should first be checked by our conscience and Gods Natural Law.

Take of this what you will.
 
Starkherz199 said:
The 2nd amendment is nothing more than a limitation placed upon our current government not to infringe upon our Natural right to self defense
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That is a very clear and succinct way to say it - I'm keeping this tucked away for future reference.
 
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