ideas for an off-grid shower

Jayne

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It's likely we're going to redo our master bath shower this year. It currently has two shower heads, and I'm wondering if I should try to convert one of the to some sort of alternate water/hot water setup while we have the walls down for new tile.

Currently I can run the well pump off the generator, but I don't have enough juice to run the (electric) hot water heater. Last time we were without power for just under 4 days, so a shower was sounding pretty nice toward the end there.

Ideas I've come up with so far, most of which seem expensive:

- replace electric water heater with propane unit (would need a propane tank)
- replace electric hot water heater with tankless propane unit (would need a propane tank)
- 'point of use' propane water heater on the 2nd shower head (would need a propane source)
- 'point of use' electric water heater on the 2nd shower head (would need more generator)
- some sort of solar hot water tank for the 2nd shower head?
- outdoor portable shower setup (portable point-of-use running off a BBQ propane tank)

Other ideas?
 
Most our power outages are during ice storms, so I'm not sure how that would work with the ambient air temp being so cold. Have to read up on it.
After 30 years here I have found about a 3 to 1 ratio with tropical storm power outages to ice storms here in southwest Wake County.

But solar doesn't work well in cloudy weather either, even if it is warm outside.
 
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Instead of solar power, consider wind power. It'll charge batteries just like solar, or you could combine the two and the wind generator will charge batteries at night
 
If you just need emergency shower use, don't waste a bunch of money. Just get a Zodi. I use one of these for big/long camping trips when we have the ability to have gear. Great for cabins and such too. Works of little cans or can be converted to grill sized ones. I have a shower tent too, but you could easily use it in your shower for emergency use. You're talking about a split system to a single shower. It's not just the second heat source that'll cost you. Piping it and the fixture will likely cost you as much.

https://www.amazon.com/ZODI-Outback...F8&qid=1494816957&sr=8-4&keywords=zodi+shower
 
But solar doesn't work well in cloudy weather either, even if it is warm outside.

Wat chu talkin bout Willis?

In 1977 we installed solar panels for hot water. 4 fixed panels, each 4x8. They fed two ~300gal tanks in the crawl space that were used as hear reservoirs, electric hot water tank was fed through heat exchangers in those tanks, and we had unlimited hot water for a family of 7. This was in northern Indiana, and in the winter it might be below zero and snowing, the system would still turn off when the tanks boiled. Pressure and humidity were the big issues, not a shortage of heat.

Those panels were very low tech, wouldn't be hard to replicate them with flexible pipe, window glass and black paint. One trick is to lay the pipe out so that it drains dry, otherwise they will freeze when the pump cycles off. I'm sure there is better technology now.
 
Wat chu talkin bout Willis?

In 1977 we installed solar panels for hot water. 4 fixed panels, each 4x8. They fed two ~300gal tanks in the crawl space that were used as hear reservoirs, electric hot water tank was fed through heat exchangers in those tanks, and we had unlimited hot water for a family of 7. This was in northern Indiana, and in the winter it might be below zero and snowing, the system would still turn off when the tanks boiled. Pressure and humidity were the big issues, not a shortage of heat.

Those panels were very low tech, wouldn't be hard to replicate them with flexible pipe, window glass and black paint. One trick is to lay the pipe out so that it drains dry, otherwise they will freeze when the pump cycles off. I'm sure there is better technology now.

We did a similar setup to heat our pool in Michigan back in the late 70s. Built a frame, lined with styrofoam, painted everything black....laid some black hose on the frame and covered with glass. We kept that pool warm into October most years. Super simple to build, I remember "helping" when I was 8-9 and we did it in an afternoon.
 
I also have this setup and it works exceptionally well.




If you just need emergency shower use, don't waste a bunch of money. Just get a Zodi. I use one of these for big/long camping trips when we have the ability to have gear. Great for cabins and such too. Works of little cans or can be converted to grill sized ones. I have a shower tent too, but you could easily use it in your shower for emergency use. You're talking about a split system to a single shower. It's not just the second heat source that'll cost you. Piping it and the fixture will likely cost you as much.

https://www.amazon.com/ZODI-Outback...F8&qid=1494816957&sr=8-4&keywords=zodi+shower
 
Those panels were very low tech, wouldn't be hard to replicate them with flexible pipe, window glass and black paint. One trick is to lay the pipe out so that it drains dry, otherwise they will freeze when the pump cycles off. I'm sure there is better technology now.
Glycol and an Hx? Even on cloudy dayswith freezing temps you can get a surprising amount of hot water. You would need to check the glycol level periodically, though.. In fact, getting too hot during a sunny day in the summer can be an issue as it can over pressurize.
 
We had a temporary water outage (water main burst) so I hung a camp shower in the shower stall with stove-warmed (could be fire place warmed, also) water in it.

For a longer term solution, it would get old, but it's functional enough for 3-4 days
 
Glycol and an Hx? Even on cloudy dayswith freezing temps you can get a surprising amount of hot water. You would need to check the glycol level periodically, though.. In fact, getting too hot during a sunny day in the summer can be an issue as it can over pressurize.

We used glycol in the ground loop for the HVAC, but risk of contaminating drinking water kept us to potable water for the hot water system. Over pressure was a common problem when we first had it running, can't say that I remember the fix.
 
warm some water on the stove or whatever heating device you have for cooking then use a washcloth.

unless you want luxury, then go with a tank less heater attached to the genny.
 
We used glycol in the ground loop for the HVAC, but risk of contaminating drinking water kept us to potable water for the hot water system. Over pressure was a common problem when we first had it running, can't say that I remember the fix.
We're building s house for my parents and putting in a vertical well ground source heat pump (geothermal). They were visiting us s few weeks back and I opened the windows as it was a pleasant day. The stupid neighbors had their AC going and the compressor/condenser was loud. My mother said, "we're not going to have to put up with noise like that are we?". I said, nope. I commented on that fact to the GC's wife yesterday during a meeting. She said she likes to sit on the porch but the noise from the AC in the summer kills the experience.

We've got some solar hot water systems here at work and if they get overheated it goes into thermal dump mode by activating the reheat coils on the HVAC. It becomes a real double waste of energy, but there are few options as the storage tanks can't handle pressure.
 
We're building s house for my parents and putting in a vertical well ground source heat pump (geothermal). They were visiting us s few weeks back and I opened the windows as it was a pleasant day. The stupid neighbors had their AC going and the compressor/condenser was loud. My mother said, "we're not going to have to put up with noise like that are we?". I said, nope. I commented on that fact to the GC's wife yesterday during a meeting. She said she likes to sit on the porch but the noise from the AC in the summer kills the experience.

We've got some solar hot water systems here at work and if they get overheated it goes into thermal dump mode by activating the reheat coils on the HVAC. It becomes a real double waste of energy, but there are few options as the storage tanks can't handle pressure.
I would think NC would be about perfect for geothermal, and it isn't that complicated, but the last I looked at it the premium was stupid. Maybe when my current system gives up the ghost I'll look at them again. Why did you decide on it?
 
I would think NC would be about perfect for geothermal, and it isn't that complicated, but the last I looked at it the premium was stupid. Maybe when my current system gives up the ghost I'll look at them again. Why did you decide on it?
Yes, the premium on it is ridiculous. Supposedly you used to be able to get tax credits (they were in effect when we start building with a crooked contractor that is now out of business). There are a couple of big advantages with these systems. The first is efficiency. Having a condenser (evaporator in heating mode) in the ground that is constantly about 55-60F makes a real difference in two ways. With an air cooled unit, you are trying to reject heat into the already hot air. You're only going to be able to cool the gas down to the approach of the coil relative to the dry bulb temperature so you're ability to get rid of heat is limited. This has the side effect of requiring that the compressor move the gas across a much higher pressure differential (~40 degrees at the evaporator to about 120 degrees at the condenser) which requires A LOT more electricity. With the ground as the heat sink, you have much greater ability to reject (or draw in heating mode) heat and you don't have to overcome such a large head pressure. I would even be willing to bet that with these electrical efficiency gains it would be possible to run the system on a generator.

The second big advantage to these types of systems is that the cooling loop is kept much smaller and the equipment is all contained in an environmentally conditioned space. This has the effect of, on average, doubling the lifespan of the units compared to conventional units. Consequently, over time the equipment cost is about the same when looked at from the standpoint that they cost twice as much but last twice as long. This leaves the energy efficiency advantages and that we are planning on owning this house for about 50 years such that we will recoup the costs and come out money ahead in the end.
 
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That Chicken Palace does have hot water?
 
I would go portable rather than rig extra piping to the shower.

When Ivan and Francis cut a swath through Western NC we had muddy spring water for a few days. Literally washed with rainwater collected in 5 gallon buckets. Boil one gallon and pour it in your 5 gallon bucket. Then you could put it in your portable shower tank, or use a pot to ladle, later and rinse.

In apocalyptic scenarios a shower twice a day or even once a day is not gonna be feasible for long.
Water will be a luxury in many locales.

Portable means you can tote the water where it's needed.

The merits of your idea are sound, and if you are bound and determined I'd go with @JimB on this one.
 
https://www.rei.com/product/105220/...285514568293&gclid=CMyCg9e19NMCFQuraQodwRoEfg

Why reinvent the wheel(shower)? If you want a hot shower put hot water in it. Wouldn't be too hard to make your own either considering the price.

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Used one of these lately and it worked very well. Same same as what bigfelipe posted, without the heater. Just heat the water in any handy container over a fire, camp stove, etc. and toss the suction into the water. $40 at Cabela's.

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As has already been stated, no need to reinvent the wheel. Check out camper shower kits. Most are set up to make hot water with either DC or with propane, and have pumps and reservoirs with them.
 
Yep, looks like a portable unit is the way to go, and just leave the on-grid shower for when we're on-grid.

Or buy a really big generator! :)
 
No rinse shampoo and body wash helped during the last outage! Lol.
But your ideas sound way more civilized!
 
Go with a 500 gallon LP tank ... switch to gas hot water and gas stove for cooking. If you have a fireplace that you don’t regularly use have gas logs installed and you got your basics ... cooking, washing and in the cooler times heating covered. If you use gas instead of charcoal for your grill you can even plumb that in also.
 
here's what worked for us:
1. after hurricane power outage....oval, metal washtub with black garbage bags filled with water and tied off. left it in the sun for ~4 hours. hot bath.
2 after ice storm...turkey fryer used to heat water for bath. got to watch it, though. it quickly boils.
3. now the turkey fryer is option #1 for any time of the year.
 
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