Intermittent fasting
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OP
NSFW, but take notes.. holy cow.
OP
Restrictive time with a 16 hour fast seems to be most beneficial, but extending it to 24 hours has even more benefits.
I’m doing a 6 hour feeding time.
Now you can do this in conjunction with keto, or you can still eat a standard diet and get benefits.
Most importantly, eat your daily calories in that period. Mixed things on what you can do outside of that time, if you do work out, drinking a low calorie branch chain amino acid is very beneficial, and if you want a super punch... a BCAA + Ketones + some glucose is like a super punch for working out while fasting. But that might only be for Ketosis state. Not sure about it yet.
OP
He says it best, he only studies about the body, he couldn’t tell you about the news or tv shows, lol.
It’s a great show though, it gives so much information.
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Chdamn
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I’ll have to listen to this when I have time but it runs counter to most accepted knowledge. I.e. splitting your calorie intake into 6-7 small meals spaced just a couple hours apart vs 3 large meals increases your metabolism.
And it’s been said for years that skipping meals sends your body into a starvation mode where it begins to store fat at an increased rate.
And it’s been said for years that skipping meals sends your body into a starvation mode where it begins to store fat at an increased rate.
OP
Nope, science shows that is not true. You aren’t hitting starvation, Even doing 24+ hour fasts have benefits for the body. I think we have to question any science on eating for the past 30 years, look at where we are headed with obesity and diabetes.
Just now catching up with this thread, but wanted to comment that I agree that we should be taking a hard look at our eating habits and thoughts on it. However, in the last 30 years I believe the main reason obesity and diabetes has been on the rise can be summed up in one word. Convenience.
It is easier to grab a sack of burgers than it is to cook a burger at home. It’s easier to scarf down a bag of potato chips than it is to pack an apple. In many families the dynamic has changed from a wide staying at home preparing food for the family to one parent grabbing something on the way home from work or the other throwing something together in the kitchen from prepared foods.
I think we would find that within the last 30 years the fast food and restaurant industry has exploded in popularity as has the convenience foods that grocery stores now offer.
I think one reason the keto/atkins/caveman style diets work so well is that it harkens back to the natural state of man. What our bodies were originally designed to eat. Raw, fresh, and with nothing processed. These diets fail because our lives (in general) find them unsustainable with all he conveniences it has to offer.
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OP
Along with when food is available, wasn’t till the last hundred you could walk to the fridge for food. So time is also apart of that equation
Chuckman
Senior Member
I will see if I can find the abstract but there was a meta-analysis that shows that while some lab functions may improve, the improvement is transient, and there is no change in fat/weight loss between I.F. and "traditional" dieting. The conclusions was, do what works best for you.
If I can find it I will post it. If y'all have not heard of him, look up Will Brink. He's a trainer and big into the scientifically-validated research in fitness and nutrition.
If I can find it I will post it. If y'all have not heard of him, look up Will Brink. He's a trainer and big into the scientifically-validated research in fitness and nutrition.
I'm not saying it's the end-all, but there are definite benefits to fasting. It's a tool in the healthy living toolbox. Will Brink is archaic by today's standards. He hasn't had anything relevant to say in 10 years. There are finally doctors coming around to the lies of the last 40+ years and there are many studies taking place these days. The science of nutrition has come a long way, like all science, in the last decade too.
Much of what we've been told is being found to be the opposite of the truth...
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Only eating in a six hour period out of 24...sounds like a couple things affecting insulin here, though I'm not a doctor.
First of all, your body can only process so much food for nutrients during the time it's running through your digestive system. Smaller amounts of food can more efficiently be processed to remove nutrients than larger amounts. So if you're limiting the same quantities of food to a shorter period of eating time, then it could be that the impact on your body with respect to the need for insulin is lower.
Also, the impact may be lower on the body with respect to insulin issues because you're simply not eating later in the day, when you're more likely to be sedentary and/or asleep. So your body doesn't have to spend resting/sleeping resources digesting as much foods and can spend more time doing "general maintenance" (your body does most of it's upkeep/healing while you're asleep).
Whatever. It's still my opinion that one's diet should be balanced and reasonable portions. If it's not balanced, you're not getting the nutrients you need. If your a glutton, you're getting too much. Neither one of these conditions is good for insulin or anything else.
First of all, your body can only process so much food for nutrients during the time it's running through your digestive system. Smaller amounts of food can more efficiently be processed to remove nutrients than larger amounts. So if you're limiting the same quantities of food to a shorter period of eating time, then it could be that the impact on your body with respect to the need for insulin is lower.
Also, the impact may be lower on the body with respect to insulin issues because you're simply not eating later in the day, when you're more likely to be sedentary and/or asleep. So your body doesn't have to spend resting/sleeping resources digesting as much foods and can spend more time doing "general maintenance" (your body does most of it's upkeep/healing while you're asleep).
Whatever. It's still my opinion that one's diet should be balanced and reasonable portions. If it's not balanced, you're not getting the nutrients you need. If your a glutton, you're getting too much. Neither one of these conditions is good for insulin or anything else.
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I do something similar....eat when I am hungry, with the caveat that I will drink 16-24oz of water when I feel hungry, if I am still hungry afterwards, eat something.
Today for example, woke up around 8, did some stuff around the house, had couple of cups of black coffee, ate leftover steak and pork loin will some Asian style slaw from last night around 2 or 3. I am getting ready to go to work tonight. I have a protein shake with 3 scoops of protein in my cooler, if I am hungry I will have that. If I am not hungry, I will have that for breakfast on the way home before I take a nap in the morning. I always have something to eat or snack on, meat sticks, nuts, etc.
That's probably all I will have today.
The bigger benefit of the fasting is a mental game, proving to your mind that you don't need to eat as much, on days where I eat a lot, I'm more likely to realize I'm full or not that hungry quicerq and eat less.
Today for example, woke up around 8, did some stuff around the house, had couple of cups of black coffee, ate leftover steak and pork loin will some Asian style slaw from last night around 2 or 3. I am getting ready to go to work tonight. I have a protein shake with 3 scoops of protein in my cooler, if I am hungry I will have that. If I am not hungry, I will have that for breakfast on the way home before I take a nap in the morning. I always have something to eat or snack on, meat sticks, nuts, etc.
That's probably all I will have today.
The bigger benefit of the fasting is a mental game, proving to your mind that you don't need to eat as much, on days where I eat a lot, I'm more likely to realize I'm full or not that hungry quicerq and eat less.
When I ate lunch today, I broke an 18 hour fast.
What were the pros and cons since it was literally my first fast after a four day beer binge?
Pros:
What were the pros and cons since it was literally my first fast after a four day beer binge?
Pros:
- I was feeling lighter and slightly more nimble
- Not eating dinner meant my body used the energy to heal me overnight, instead of making a turd
- The intermittent tummy rumbling
- I sharted at work
- I sharted at work
Curious what you base this hypothesis on? Seems to me, the basis for the digestion process is the quality of your gut biome and the quality of your diet. The size of the meal is irrelevant. If you eat a bunch of carbs and sugar and crap processed food, you'll take big dumps and your digestion will suffer from the damage you do to it. Sugar, some artificial sweetners, and modern wheat are literally toxic to the bacteria in your gut. If you have even a huge meal of whole foods(fat, protein, fiber-rich vegetables), with a healthy biome, you'll have no digestion issues and a surprisingly small bowel movement because you body actually makes use of the fuel you eat.
As to insulin, (assuming you're on a standard american high-carb diet)the more often you eat, the more often your body is impacted by insulin. Every time you eat your insulin spikes as your body tries to remove glucose from your blood. The more that happens the more insulin resistant your cells become. This requires a bigger and bigger insulin dump as time goes on. Eventually your system is so out of whack you become a type 2 diabetic. If you eat little to no carbs and a reasonable amount of protein, your body makes the little bit of glucose the brain needs from protein through your liver and the insulin rollercoaster is a fairly flat trajectory. This is exacerbated by a fast as your insulin levels are lowest when you wake as is you insulin resistance. As your body replaces old cells with new your insulin resistance as a whole goes down over time. Your body burns ketones and fat stores instead of glucose. It's still a case of calories in/calories out to an extent. You can't eat 4000cal a day and play video games on your couch and expect to lose weight. The beauty of a HF-MP-LC diet like keto is that it's very satiating. You feel full eating less and don't get hungry as soon.
My window is from 1-7pm. So I am eating only later in the day. My energy levels are pretty solidly balanced. I'm not anymore tired in the evening than I am during the day. So I'm not predisposed to being sedentary in the evenings. Sleep is important and you are definitely correct on repairs made while sleeping. You create cancerous cells everyday and destroy them every night while you sleep. Digestion takes almost 2 days to complete. So, the rationale that it somehow takes more effort while you sleep makes little sense unless you eat so close to bedtime that your stomach is still full.
I'll wager my diet is more varied and balanced than 90+% of members here. I get the bulk of the carbs I eat from a wide variety of fibrous and leafy green veggies. I incorporate nutrient dense foods across the board. I could go on for hours but it's too much information to disperse in posts. Maybe we can get a round table discussion going on at @BatteryOaksBilly 's meetup in the fall! I expect to be at my 200lb goal by then...
I'm not a doctor either, but I listen to a lot of them and read a lot on the subject. This is just my take, based on my research and my situation...
a modified schedule has worked for me which goes like this....
1. zero breakfast. if i eat, i get hungry sooner. if i don't, i can go 6 hours easy.
2. BIG lunch (dinner) around 1PM. eat everything. second helpings.
3. supper is a salad or less. i love "baby" carrots and Ranch dressing.
good news: easy to maintain target weight.
bad news: people say i'm crazy.
1. zero breakfast. if i eat, i get hungry sooner. if i don't, i can go 6 hours easy.
2. BIG lunch (dinner) around 1PM. eat everything. second helpings.
3. supper is a salad or less. i love "baby" carrots and Ranch dressing.
good news: easy to maintain target weight.
bad news: people say i'm crazy.
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OP
Sounds like you are doing it, I found I don’t get hungery till 2-3pm, then I eat again around 7pm
Fast the rest of the time.
OP
Did a fasted work out this morning.
Definitely different, but the effects are supposed to increase HGH production and increase fat burning. Not eating for a while.
Definitely different, but the effects are supposed to increase HGH production and increase fat burning. Not eating for a while.
fishgutzy
Senior Member
I burn so many calories swimming 4 miles that I need to drink a protein shake about 40 minutes to an hour before it. I still burn 5 to 10 times the calories of the shake though, depending 1 or 2 scoops. About 1500kCal for 4 miles.
I switched to a 18:6 fast and lost 100 pounds over a year. I find it much easier to live with than any sort of diet (didn't change what I eat, just how much and how often.) I'll never go back to 3 meals a day.
Chuckman
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Very glad it worked for you. If it works, do it....
IF/fasting doesn't work for everyone and the data isn't solid on it.
I agree - there probably isn't anything that works for everyone. Being healthy is a very individual thing with existing health conditions, food allergies, genetic makeup, preferences, etc. I didn't start with a 18:6 fast. I just started by not eating breakfast because I tended to eat poorly at breakfast and liked an earlier lunch as well. Once I started, I found some of the books on IF and decided to extend. If you haven't done a fast before, I don't recommend jumping right into a big change. Ease into it.
fishgutzy
Senior Member
Exactly. Everyone is different. But any time the gov't gets involve, even in nutritional studies, they demand a ONE SIZE FITS ALL. That is why the NIH has a hard line (unscientific) position body fat percentage has ZERO impact on health. Only BMI matters. Had an NIH tell me that the heart has to work harder pushing blood through muscle and that was why BPF doesn't change health risk of high BMI. of course he had no answer when I asked why a person of lower BFP but same weight has a lower resting heart heart than the person with higher BFP.
BTW, My heart healthy breakfast when I am home is 2 whole eggs, one serving of Neese's sausage, half a Carolina Reaper, Quarter onion, half a green bell pepper, about an ounce of cheese. This is much better for my heart blood metrics than whole grain anything.
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Rather than a long rant about government and the processed food industries. I'll just say find what works for you.
I will fast a couple times a month (or if I cheat by going out with my daughter to Red Robin) usually after lunch through breakfast the next morning, so about 16 hours. Grains make me bloated, so I stay away form them. I follow a WOE that is meat, fish, fowl, green leafy vegetables, some fruit and berries, no grains or added sugar, limited dairy (cheese mostly). I almost never snack between meals (I'm just not hungry very often) but if I do I'll have some mixed tree nuts or frozen blueberries. Coffee in the morning (Buletproof a couple times a week) and lots of water, Powerade Zero if I'm outside sweating a lot.
Over 2 years I've lost 70+ pounds. My blood work and BP has gone from "We need to keep an eye on it." to "Keep doing what you're doing. See you next year.".
Your family history (genetics) has a lot to do with being healthy. My friend and coworker had his first heart attack at 29, all the men in his families died in their mid 60s. With my parents families the norm is late 80s, with younger being the exception.
I will fast a couple times a month (or if I cheat by going out with my daughter to Red Robin) usually after lunch through breakfast the next morning, so about 16 hours. Grains make me bloated, so I stay away form them. I follow a WOE that is meat, fish, fowl, green leafy vegetables, some fruit and berries, no grains or added sugar, limited dairy (cheese mostly). I almost never snack between meals (I'm just not hungry very often) but if I do I'll have some mixed tree nuts or frozen blueberries. Coffee in the morning (Buletproof a couple times a week) and lots of water, Powerade Zero if I'm outside sweating a lot.
Over 2 years I've lost 70+ pounds. My blood work and BP has gone from "We need to keep an eye on it." to "Keep doing what you're doing. See you next year.".
Your family history (genetics) has a lot to do with being healthy. My friend and coworker had his first heart attack at 29, all the men in his families died in their mid 60s. With my parents families the norm is late 80s, with younger being the exception.
fishgutzy
Senior Member
When I'm in China, I fast from about 4:45pm to 6:00am. I generally don't eat after swimming. Sometimes I will, but it is rare.
Update: I was loosing weight too fast. Had to force myself to eat something after swimming. Still losing fast though. 3+ hours a day in the gym, most of it swimming, will do that.
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Update: I was loosing weight too fast. Had to force myself to eat something after swimming. Still losing fast though. 3+ hours a day in the gym, most of it swimming, will do that.
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I realize I am late to the party but I agree with you and believe this is exactly correct.
After watching my weight balloon to 165 lbs (I'm "vertically challenged" at 5'6"
) and not being able to get my fat ass in regular jeans anymore, I decided I had to do something. So, I've been on a KETO (high fat, low carb and moderate protein) diet for the last two weeks. I also have been doing intermittent fasting as well. I usually don't eat until 5-6pm. For breakfast, I have two cups of black coffee with heavy whipping cream.
When I weighed myself this morning, I weighed in at 155.8 lbs. I am pretty pleased with the results so far. My blood pressure has dropped a lot and I feel a helluva lot better. My goal is to get myself down to around 145 lbs.
For me, the biggest problem with this kind of diet is trying to limit the carbs. I'm happy if I can stay under 35g a day and that is tough to do, especially if you love bread (which I do). Checking the My Plate app, I average eating about 25g of carbs a day.
If you are going to eat this way, I think it is important to set a date where you can reward yourself for one day, maybe once a month and eat whatever you want. On that day for me, it will be probably be pancakes or maybe some good ole biscuits and gravy
.
fishgutzy
Senior Member
I found that as I lost the fat, I actually had to increase carbs for endurance activities. I lost glycogen storage capacity with the fat.I realize I am late to the party but I agree with you and believe this is exactly correct.
After watching my weight balloon to 165 lbs (I'm "vertically challenged" at 5'6"
So, I've been on a KETO (high fat, low carb and moderate protein) diet for the last two weeks. I also have been doing intermittent fasting as well. I usually don't eat until 5-6pm. For breakfast, I have two cups of black coffee with heavy whipping cream.
When I weighed myself this morning, I weighed in at 155.8 lbs. I am pretty pleased with the results so far. My blood pressure has dropped a lot and I feel a helluva lot better. My goal is to get myself down to around 145 lbs.
For me, the biggest problem with this kind of diet is trying to limit the carbs. I'm happy if I can stay under 35g a day and that is tough to do, especially if you love bread (which I do). Checking the My Plate app, I average eating about 25g of carbs a day.
If you are going to eat this way, I think it is important to set a date where you can reward yourself for one day, maybe once a month and eat whatever you want. On that day for me, it will be probably be pancakes or maybe some good ole biscuits and gravy
I still have relatively low carb intake. And the calories in the carbs I supplement during the swim are still <20% of what I burn. But it makes a difference in warding off muscle fatigue.
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Well, you are swimming the English Channel (in my mind, lol). I'm curious and with your level of exertion, what is your average carb intake on a daily basis to feel well and satiated for your level of energy expended?
fishgutzy
Senior Member
Honestly, I don't really track it. Hard to do in China.
But during long swims I use EFS. It has 96 carb calories per scoop.
2 scoops under 13km swim. 4 scoops over that.
About 3/4 cup of rice at lunch.
Then on Saturday after a looking swim, I sometimes have Fried calamari and a burger.
And I still lose weight. Ha!
I should add that I spend at least 3 hours a day at the gym actively exercising.
When I hit the weight room, I do everything in 3 to 4 lift supersets. So, that time is about 75% active.
Swimming time is 100% active.
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OP
Been tracking my fasts better, doing OMAD today (One meal a day). It was a 19 hour fast before eating.
I will probably break my fast tomorrow around noon.
But I am dropping weight with it.
I will probably break my fast tomorrow around noon.
But I am dropping weight with it.
I tried one meal a day, tended towards eating at about 2:30pm. Couldn’t maintain because of work lunches and family dinners, but I felt pretty good doing it.
Maybe I’ll try skipping breakfast and go two a day.
Maybe I’ll try skipping breakfast and go two a day.
OP
I am aiming for 16 hour fasts on average.
So you figure supper 2-4 hours before bed, 8 hours of sleep, Skip breakfast, and your at 16 hours pretty easy.
Using an App that tracks it, might upgrade it to the pro version. I’m normally at 17 to 18 hours now.
18 hours seems about right for me.
gaberelli
Well-Known Member
I’ve been IF for quite a while now and OMAD when I travel for work. When it sounds as simple as skipping breakfast, looks easy. Tough part is nothing AFTER dinner and making lunch and dinner wise balanced food choices as you would for any good lifestyle. Just limits the window for food going in. Can’t help but restrict calories even when a few bad choices slip in there.
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Very difficult if diabetic and on meds but I have a friend who is exactly that and he does exactly that. I can do it if I eat a really big lunch with lots of protein, fat and carbs. I can go 18hrs or more without eating after that. On keto now and I have stopped one diabetes med and it was one that would make me go low (blood glucose below 85) if I just had a chef salad for lunch with no starchy carbs.