It’s a long shot ( ha!) but does anybody know what ammo this is?

Puddlejockey

Puddlejockey

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A few years ago ( maybe 3 ) I bought a few ammo cans of 556/ 223 from an online supplier. If I remember correctly they were an odd quantity- maybe 420 rounds per can?
When they came in, I was surprised that they were loose in the ammo can and came in a used can .. and I don’t recognize the head stamp.

I dug around the interweb but there’s conflicting info on the crosshair mark ( wolf) or LC .

I’m trying to identify the maker/ origin and whether it’s 556 or 223 … potentially to sell it off. Am I ringing any bells for anybody? ( ha- another pun! ) 672EE173-0B5E-4E1B-8DFB-4266B46154C2.jpeg3067E7F3-7C26-42A0-AD2F-9E8DCD274931.jpeg

406540ED-7CD2-4C3C-AA97-26AD0F3B9DA8.jpeg
 
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LC = Lake City
You'll need to know the bullet weight as that will be one of the first questions you get.
 
That's Lake City 5.56 M193, produced in the year 2014. It's good ammo. *IF* it's factory ammo. I share LeeMajors' concern about it not having primer crimps, so possibly handloads.
 
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LeeMajors said:
lake city 5.56 nato. Unless it's reloaded cases. I don't see primer crimps. That would lead me to believe it's from a reloader
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Gnash.Hyena said:
That's Lake City 5.56 M193, produced in the year 2014. It's good ammo. *IF* it's factory ammo. I share LeeMajors' concern about it not having primer crimps, so possibly handloads.
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It could be from a reputable reloading company. I just don't think it's factory lc ammo
 
5.56 M193 Ball Ammo 55gr. FMJBT
LC = Lake City Ammo Plant which is currently managed by Olin Winchester (got the contract)
14 = 2014 Year made
The circle with cross = NATO
The Dots = The dots are for the octal numbering system used at Lake City as part of the small
Caliber Ammunition Modernization Program (SCAMP). A numerical value is assigned to different
positions around the case headstamp and the values are added together to give a number that
indicates the station on which that particular cartridge case was produced.

They appear to be "crimped primers", you'll know if you reload them and the primer won't seat
then again some re-manu do a decent job of case prep, but visually they look untouched, no
signs of "reaming" or "swaging"

Really not bad ammo, shoots okay for what it is.
You may run across some WCC or TW ball.

-Snoopz
 
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LeeMajors said:
Possibly. I've always seen the crimps on the left. Never seen the one on the right.

View attachment 508433
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I've seen both and have both probably bout 10k of "staked" LC-14
with Purple sealer around the pocket, thousands more of the roll crimp
Everything else is roll crimped, TW, WCC, PMC, PS and LC
the staking is done in one process

-Snoopz
 
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Snoopz said:
I've seen both and have both probably bout 10k of "staked" LC-14
with Purple sealer around the pocket, thousands more of the roll crimp
Everything else is roll crimped, TW, WCC, PMC, PS and LC
the staking is done in one process

-Snoopz
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… one day I’ll understand this statement. Meanwhile for us slow kids- thanks for the info above! 👍
 
You could always disassemble one, weigh the bullet, weigh the charge, post here to see if it's safe and what it's likely performance is.
 
Seems to be factory LC XM193 from 2014, ring crimped.
 
I think the 420 round cans were Federal. Wasn't Federal running Lake City back then? I don't remember what the headstamps were in those 420rd cans. I agree that's a "ring" crimp. I've see a fair amount of that, which required removal and it's obvious when it's not centered. I see marketing for M193 NATO all the time. But, I don't think M193 was ever a NATO round. NATO 5.56 spec started with the US M855 and European SS109 rounds around 1980. So, if the case is stamped with the NATO cross and it's a factory load it's going to be 62gr. But, they should also have a green painted tip. A ful sideways profile of the round might help identify if it's 55gr or 62gr. The 62gr tend to be "pointy". Which is what it looks like in the photo.

Identifying 5.56 ammo can be tricky, with companies (especially Federal) putting our multiple products under varying labels. For example Federal American Eagle comes in both commerical .223 spec and XM193 spec, both in the same black box. You have to look for special identifying numbers on the box. And then add in the companies marketing that name things they really aren't.
 
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georgel said:
I think the 420 round cans were Federal. Wasn't Federal running Lake City back then? I don't remember what the headstamps were in those 420rd cans. I agree that's a "ring" crimp. I've see a fair amount of that, which required removal and it's obvious when it's not centered. I see marketing for M193 NATO all the time. But, I don't think M193 was ever a NATO round. NATO 5.56 spec started with the US M855 and European SS109 rounds around 1980. So, if the case is stamped with the NATO cross and it's a factory load it's going to be 62gr. But, they should also have a green painted tip. A ful sideways profile of the round might help identify if it's 55gr or 62gr. The 62gr tend to be "pointy". Which is what it looks like in the photo.

Identifying 5.56 ammo can be tricky, with companies (especially Federal) putting our multiple products under varying labels. For example Federal American Eagle comes in both commerical .223 spec and XM193 spec, both in the same black box. You have to look for special identifying numbers on the box. And then add in the companies marketing that name things they really aren't.
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A snippet:
Remington Arms operated the plant from its inception until 1985, when operations were taken over by the Olin Corporation. From April 2001, it was operated by Alliant Techsystems (ATK), later known as Orbital ATK after a 2015 merger between Orbital Sciences Corporation and parts of Alliant Techsystems. Orbital ATK was acquired by Northrop Grumman in 2018 and is now known as Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems. Starting in October 2020, Winchester Ammunition was selected by the US Army to operate and manage the Lake City Plant.

ATK - Federal

Militaries standardized the cartridge for NATO forces in 1980. Before that, NATO adopted the 7.62×51 in 1954.


-Snoopz
 
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Snoopz said:
A snippet:
Remington Arms operated the plant from its inception until 1985, when operations were taken over by the Olin Corporation. From April 2001, it was operated by Alliant Techsystems (ATK), later known as Orbital ATK after a 2015 merger between Orbital Sciences Corporation and parts of Alliant Techsystems. Orbital ATK was acquired by Northrop Grumman in 2018 and is now known as Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems. Starting in October 2020, Winchester Ammunition was selected by the US Army to operate and manage the Lake City Plant.

ATK - Federal

Militaries standardized the cartridge for NATO forces in 1980. Before that, NATO adopted the 7.62×51 in 1954.


-Snoopz
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And Olin is/was Winchester. So it's kinda full circle.
 
Thanks all! So it sounds like the consensus is Federal LC 62 gr , ring crimped? ( which would make sense since I generally bought 62 grain or heavier) . I bought this during the first ( or was it the second?… hell I lost count) zombie- pacalypse Y2 Monkeypox ver 1.2 North Korean murder hornet hurricane panic.. and honestly completely forgot I’d had them!
 
Puddlejockey said:
Thanks for all the help! I did more research and I believe these are LC XM193’s made by Federal. If I had a way to safely pull a bullet I’d check the weight to be 100% sure, but it’s the only thing that makes sense…
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if you have a 223 die set, put the "bullet seat" die in adjust it so it will not crimp, take the "stem"
and adjust it so it seats the bullet in a little more, what your doing is breaking the "seal". then
either a collet puller or a hammer style one. would do it
or a decent scale, weigh one or a few loaded rounds to get an average, the weigh some 55gr. might give you
some kind of idea. Yeah..yeah.. I know variables, case weight, charge weight, etc. but 55grs vs 62grs, who knows

-Snoopz
 
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I think you’re right. If you don’t want to pull one you could check it with a magnet m855 and xm855 will be magnetic, m193 and xm193 will not.
 
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