Leupold Mark 5 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD Gen II

Discussion in 'Optics Talk' started by draco88, May 23, 2020.

  1. draco88

    draco88 Dang it, Bobby Benefactor Charter Life Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,404
    Likes Received:
    14,631
    Location:
    Cleveland Co, NC
    Looking to upgrade glass for a long range bolt gun.
    Currently looking at two possibilities:

    Leupold Mark 5 HD
    or
    Vortex Razor HD Gen II

    Which one and why?
    Also, is there another one along the same tier I should be looking at?
    Help me spend my money :)
     
    Pink_Vapor likes this.
  2. Rob01

    Rob01 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    235
    Location:
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    Both are excellent scopes. I would look at the features and reticles and decide what you like. With the prices of Razor II scopes now it's tough to not like them. You can buy them new for $1600 and used down to $1300. That's a lot of scope for the money.

    Liberty Optics has the 4.5-27 for $1599. Just add it to cart to see the price.
    http://www.libertyoptics.com/contents/en-us/d128.html
     
  3. Spartan01

    Spartan01 Maximum Moderator Staff Member Life Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,376
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Location:
    Gibsonville
    NightForce !
    NightForce !!
    NightForce!!!
     
    Matt.Cross likes this.
  4. Chuckman

    Chuckman Senior Member Sponsor

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    6,857
    Likes Received:
    11,411
    Location:
    North Durham
    Mission drives gear: which reticle do you prefer? Of the two, does one fit your need over the other? Me, I prefer the Leupold MK 5, but there's nothing wrong with the Razor. Same price range, also look at Nightforce. Not sure you can get a S&B that inexpensively, though.
     
  5. Spartan01

    Spartan01 Maximum Moderator Staff Member Life Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,376
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Location:
    Gibsonville
    this!

    what do you need the scope to do?
    Now, what do you want it to do?
    How much can you afford?
    A decent rule of theme is a minimum of $1 per yard. Need a 1000 yard scope, expect to pay $1000+

    Also, what tube size do you want? 1” used to be standard, then 30mm. Now a lot have switched to 34 mm...
    (Personally, I prefer 30mm to 34mm. But that is because the size of my eyes line up better, and I have faster acquisition at extended magnification.
    If it was an entry/distance scope (1-8 power) I would want the 34mm simply because speed is even more crucial when you are up close.)

    do you need illumination of the reticle?do you want wire or etched glass?
    Do you want MOA or Mills?
    how much dope do you need? Will you be using a mount/riser that has built in dope (say 20MOA) ?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
    Downeast likes this.
  6. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    12,870
    Likes Received:
    19,092
    Location:
    Apex / W. Jefferson NC
    Guess you’ll need to be selling something shiny to help fund that. :p

    Will travel for CZ’s. :cool:
     
    Pink_Vapor likes this.
  7. cchioda3

    cchioda3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    117
    Location:
    Raleigh
    I have been looking for a scope for long range as well. Narrowed it down to a few and really liked the leupold mark 5. I did not expect it to be a 35mm tube. I really like leupolds scope bases and rings but haven’t seen many options to mount 35mm from their sight. Other than that it topped my list. I like the TMR reticle as well.

    ETA: I also really liked it was made in good ol ‘Merica!
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  8. draco88

    draco88 Dang it, Bobby Benefactor Charter Life Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,404
    Likes Received:
    14,631
    Location:
    Cleveland Co, NC
    So, yeah...should been more specific in the op.

    Recreational long range shooter not doing competitions.
    Glass that me and my rifle can grow into as I upgrade both me and the rifle.
    Reticle and moa/mil are largely unimportant. Both come in moa or mil and both have tree type reticles for holdovers.
    Budget: 2k

    I was hoping Id get a discussion comparing glass clarity, how tactile the turrets were even with gloves on, durability, build quality, what you like/dont like about each, etc.

    You know, a comparison of the two.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
    Spartan01 likes this.
  9. draco88

    draco88 Dang it, Bobby Benefactor Charter Life Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,404
    Likes Received:
    14,631
    Location:
    Cleveland Co, NC
    What drew you to the Mk 5?
    Also, any specific NF I should look at?
     
  10. Rob01

    Rob01 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    235
    Location:
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    Well I never used a Mark 5 but have used S&B, NF, Hensoldt, USO and others and I don't feel the glass in the Razor II holds me back at all. It's pretty damn good actually. When I first got my first Razor II about 6 years ago I put it next to my S&B PMII scopes and glass was right there. I let about 4 or 5 other guys at my club look through both side by side on different days and they all were pretty impressed. The knobs on the Razor II are very audible and tactile and have a locking feature. Also a very nice feature is the clickless zeroing. Some say it's harder but it's worth the second or two to take the cap off. There is a video below but now they come with a small multi tool so no need for the items shown. The clickless zeroing allows a perfect zero so not a little off between clicks.

    The scope is very durable. Been beating mine around at matches and never an issue. Might be from the solid build quality and the only "bad" thing people say about the Razor II being it's weight. They are built solid. I laugh at most of the weight comments as they usually come from match shooters shooting 20+ pound rifle that they add weight to. LOL Is the Razor II the scope to put on a mountain rifle? Hell no but for a target rifle or match rifle it's extra 10 ounces over similar scopes is not a problem. The Mark 5 is one of the lighter in that range at about 30 ounces so it's 18 ounces lighter. If you needed that light of weight the AMG would be the better choice over the Razor II but for your stated needs the weight won't be a problem.

    The 7C is a great usable reticle also. A small dot for precise work and also a Christmas tree for holds or calling corrections. Enough marks to be seen and use but not so many it's a hindrance or clutters.

    I shutter to mention this as you always get some hater in yelling "you are gonna need it" but the VIP Warranty is also excellent insurance. If something was to happen which rarely happens with the Razor II, you will have a fast turn around of usually less than a week. Also the VIP Warranty does not just cover mechanical issues. It covers accidental damage. Drop it from a tree stand and it's covered. Repair or replace. Same if you ran it over with a truck, slipped off the shooting bench, or got burnt in a house fire. That's nice insurance.

    Any specific questions let me know.



    V vs S&B.jpg
     
    draco88 and Pbj ak like this.
  11. BowWow

    BowWow Happy to be here

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    3,319
    Location:
    NC
  12. draco88

    draco88 Dang it, Bobby Benefactor Charter Life Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,404
    Likes Received:
    14,631
    Location:
    Cleveland Co, NC
    Thanks @Rob01 !! Very helpful

    @BowWow Thats the one Im looking at...albeit the mil version. I've probably read all the same stuff you have and was hoping to get a users take on it here.
     
  13. VA_GENTLEMAN

    VA_GENTLEMAN Gone Galt Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    2,683
    Location:
    Western NC, Virginian by Grace of God
    Just from my circle of shooters, they don't really hold the Mark 5 in high regard... they say the Mark 4 is better.

    They all shoot the Razor's or Bushnell DMR2's....
     
  14. Spartan01

    Spartan01 Maximum Moderator Staff Member Life Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,376
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Location:
    Gibsonville
    NightForce uses etched glass in their reticle.
    I believe Leupold uses wire, which can change point of impact especially when going from one magnification to another. Also when using the illuminated reticle.
    I do know that the MK4 line and Leupold in general did have a cam issue where the cams would not reset properly. This was a long time ago (2008 ish) so it may have been corrected.

    Most of my experience is with NightForce, which is 90-95% as good as the Schmidt and Bender.
    Op, think about that- you are not depending on this setup with your life, so absolute top of the line performance is not an issue. By this I mean a Mustang is fast, a Corvette faster, and a Ferrari even faster, but look at the entry price points- 30k, 60k, 200k
    How much better is one versus another?
     
  15. BowWow

    BowWow Happy to be here

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    3,319
    Location:
    NC
    I thought leupold had done away with the wire reticles........
     
  16. BowWow

    BowWow Happy to be here

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    3,319
    Location:
    NC
    And oh yeah, to the OP, Nightforce optics are Excellent, definitely worth considering.
     
    Matt.Cross likes this.
  17. draco88

    draco88 Dang it, Bobby Benefactor Charter Life Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,404
    Likes Received:
    14,631
    Location:
    Cleveland Co, NC
    Always like to hear dissenting opinions, too, but qualify it.

    Why do they not like the Mk 5?
    What made them choose the Mk 4, Razor, or DMR II?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  18. Rob01

    Rob01 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    235
    Location:
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    The Mark 5 are etched glass reticles also. Doubt you will find any scope in those price ranges with wire especially with a Christmas tree reticle.
     
    draco88 likes this.
  19. VA_GENTLEMAN

    VA_GENTLEMAN Gone Galt Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    2,683
    Location:
    Western NC, Virginian by Grace of God
    They like the Mk4 mostly because they were used to the Mark 4's. All of them had at least one on one of their rigs.

    They just felt that the Mk5, compared to the Razor and DMR's, was not worth the price tag and the clarity, repeatability and FOV was better.

    One of the guys actually got a Mark 5 and had some repeatability issues, which Leupold took care of.. but in a close group of shooters they are like a ladies knitting club. So the negativity gets around quick.
     
    draco88 likes this.
  20. DrDover

    DrDover Banned Camp Refugee Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    470
    Likes Received:
    519
    Location:
    Belmont, NC
    Razor G2 is the one I chose. hard to beat it for a reliable, cost effective, very clear scope. I have also owned about all the other major brands and keep going back to the razor for my long range needs. What ever scope you end up with between the 2 choices will be a great optic.
     
  21. cchioda3

    cchioda3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    117
    Location:
    Raleigh
    draco88 likes this.
  22. draco88

    draco88 Dang it, Bobby Benefactor Charter Life Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,404
    Likes Received:
    14,631
    Location:
    Cleveland Co, NC
    cchioda3 likes this.
  23. Spartan01

    Spartan01 Maximum Moderator Staff Member Life Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,376
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Location:
    Gibsonville
    Interesting.
    I am surprised that anyone beat out S&B...
    I sincerely want to believe that this is because the tests were fair and honest and they are giving our snipers the absolute best tools. I sincerely want to believe that, but you know, it could be a political pork barrel and such...
    I hope it’s not.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
    cchioda3 likes this.
  24. Chuckman

    Chuckman Senior Member Sponsor

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    6,857
    Likes Received:
    11,411
    Location:
    North Durham
    My time behind a Mark 5 is limited, but I thought it was worlds better than the Mark 4, on which I cut my teeth in the military.

    I cannot say that it is better or worse than the others, but I have no problem saying that it could hold its own against the others. I thought the repeatability was 'as good as' definitely. No issues with other regards either.

    I know the Razor has a cult-like fan club, but if I were spending big money on a new optic it would probably be 3rd or 4th on my list. Again, just personal preferences.
     
    draco88 likes this.
  25. Rob01

    Rob01 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    235
    Location:
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    Not a cult like fan club for the Razors but a match proven optic that offers shooters a lot of performance for their money.

    I will agree the Mk5 is a much better optic than the Mk4 though.
     
    draco88 likes this.
  26. Noveske13

    Noveske13 Happy to be here

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    127
    Location:
    trinity nc
    Ill have to disagree with you on that. S&B is on a different world clarity wise, I think NF is more fanboi than even the razors. Kind of like the US optics of the early 2000. OP best bang for the buck are the Bushnell Tact Elite series and as mentioned before most comp shooters are running them and Razors. Just hard to beat for the $$$$$$$. Up in the stratosphere there are better offerings than the NF for comparable money but with NF there is always a fanboi to sell too so that does enter the convo. You wont be disappointed in the Leupold, Razor, or the Tact elite honestly.
     
  27. Noveske13

    Noveske13 Happy to be here

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    127
    Location:
    trinity nc
    Also, I highly doubt any "christmas tree" reticle from any company is wire lol
     
  28. Zbizzle911

    Zbizzle911 Charter Freedom Lover Charter Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    3,418
    Likes Received:
    4,075
    Location:
    Midway Nc
    Anyone got a zero compromise optic? They are pretty spendy. Didn’t know if they were any better than s&b ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  29. cchioda3

    cchioda3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    117
    Location:
    Raleigh
    Absolutely will give feedback.


    I agree. Hope it wasn’t political nonsense. I’m curious to know the particulars behind their decision.