Long term medical with no Hospital or Doctor care

AR10ShooterinNC

AR10ShooterinNC

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Are there any good books about medical care with out the support of modern medicine? I have been a few courses over the years, and read some books, but it's all about stabalizing until you can get to a hospital.
 
Greg Ellifritz is doing a class sort of along those lines in Culpeper next month. https://www.eventbrite.com/e/greg-ellifritz-tactical-first-aid-and-collapse-tickets-172208489227

In addition, students will learn how to treat themselves and families in the event of a long-term breakdown in our current medical system. Wound cleaning and disinfection under field conditions, injection of local anesthesia and wound closure (including minor suturing) will be practiced in our "trauma lab". If time permits, students will integrate all of these skills in several practical scenarios.

Information about what types of drugs to stockpile for natural disasters or a collapse in the health care system will be discussed, along with methods for legally acquiring those pharmaceuticals. The instructor will also discuss what items should be included in a comprehensive medical kit and how to improvise those items in an austere environment.
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EDIT: oops. Didn't notice the class is sold out. Sorry. Anyway, he teaches this pretty regularly in various places.
 
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The challenge becomes, where you source your supplies? Lidocaine is a prescription agent, and has an expiration date. Suturing is a fun skill, but when do you decide to do a primary versus secondary closure? And then how do you treat infection?

If you or your loved one has diabetes, asthma, heart problems, etc, how do you account for that? What do you do for parasitic infection because of dirty water?

And medical skills are skills, therefore perishable. How do you practice and stay current?

There's a lot of background to this. Not trying to dissuade anyone, just want to point out that once you peel that first layer of the onion there are 10 more layers under.
 
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@AR10ShooterinNC it's going to depend on the context of what you define as without the support of modern healthcare. Are you talking about a backwoods / austere situation where medical aid might be several days away and a Prolonged Field Care type thing where the endgame is still definitive care or a TEOTWAWKI type thing where the healthcare system ceases to exist anymore?

@Chuckman brings up several valid points. Books like When There Is No Doctor / Dentist, The Atlas of War Injuries and others that predate modern medicine are interesting reads but some of that information simply doesn't translate into practically any longer. I can get you PDFs of books that talk about compounding herbs and other compounds. But you are going to be hard pressed to find them when you need them.People don't grow Borage, Foxglove, and licorice root in their gardens anymore...

I will continue to hold the opinion that when society collapses, Insulin will be the most in demand medication and people will kill each other for it.
 
NCMedic said:
@AR10ShooterinNC

@Chuckman brings up several valid points. Books like When There Is No Doctor / Dentist, The Atlas of War Injuries and others that predate modern medicine are interesting reads but some of that information simply doesn't translate into practically any longer. I can get you PDFs of books that talk about compounding herbs and other compounds. But you are going to be hard pressed to find them when you need them.People don't grow Borage, Foxglove, and licorice root in their gardens anymore...

I will continue to hold the opinion that when society collapses, Insulin will be the most in demand medication and people will kill each other for it.
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And perhaps they should. ;)

I remember being in a discussion about how difficult it would be to find the herbs and supplements one might, especially, if everyone else is looking for them too. I suggested, why hunt for them? Why not grow them? We researched this a few years ago and while I currently don't have the herb garden set up yet, we have many of the components and seeds. Research the alternatives and act on that. I once found a really good book, that discussed old remedies and how they worked well, but we moved away from them for the convenience of modern meds.

Some things will not have an alternative. If it gets that bad, it's going to be very, very bad and you'll have to get right with that. Estimates are that in a true power grid collapse scenario, where it takes years to rebuild, 95% of the US population will not survive the first year. A big piece of that will be in first 90days with the elderly, infirm and those dependent of life saving meds, like insulin, heart meds, dialysis, etc. Not to mention those in the hospital.
 
we gave up on suturing (stitches) and went to surgical Super Glue (Dermabond).
but, staples are an adequate substitute and easy to administer/remove.

regarding "most in demand medication"....people already kill for pain pills.
essentially, drugs are the lynch-pin for most serious medical situations.

right now, eye injuries/protection is what we focus on.
the first step: wear glasses (prescription, safety, whatever)
ALL the time that one is not asleep. well, maybe not in the shower,
but especially while cooking, being outdoors, and handling household chemicals.
 
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further more.....
this is what we are reading right now.
it a really old post-Civil-War book with basic surgery techniques.
the pictures show surgeons without masks and gloves.

9781163111314.jpg
 
NCMedic said:
I will continue to hold the opinion that when society collapses, Insulin will be the most in demand medication and people will kill each other for it.
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But not for long, because all of the insulin will be gone quickly. Therefore, so will the diabetics... šŸ˜¢

...it will be a terrible disaster.
 
MacEntyre said:
But not for long, because all of the insulin will be gone quickly. Therefore, so will the diabetics... šŸ˜¢

...it will be a terrible disaster.
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Good time to start living a low carb diet with intermittent fasting since that is how you will be living. You might likely cure your Diabetes as well.
 
georgel said:
And perhaps they should. ;)

I remember being in a discussion about how difficult it would be to find the herbs and supplements one might, especially, if everyone else is looking for them too. I suggested, why hunt for them? Why not grow them? We researched this a few years ago and while I currently don't have the herb garden set up yet, we have many of the components and seeds. Research the alternatives and act on that. I once found a really good book, that discussed old remedies and how they worked well, but we moved away from them for the convenience of modern meds.

Some things will not have an alternative. If it gets that bad, it's going to be very, very bad and you'll have to get right with that. Estimates are that in a true power grid collapse scenario, where it takes years to rebuild, 95% of the US population will not survive the first year. A big piece of that will be in first 90days with the elderly, infirm and those dependent of life saving meds, like insulin, heart meds, dialysis, etc. Not to mention those in the hospital.
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I'm not saying that it couldn't or shouldn't be done. However, that's something that one should be preparing for now and have a high level of understanding of what is required.

Unfortunately in society today that's a level of institutional knowledge that is degraded.
Outside of a few herbalist, homeopathic "pharmacists", I don't think that today's pharmacists have the depth of knowledge as compared to a pharmacist in the 17th-early 20th century where it comes to being able to compound various tinctures and such without killing someone.
 
Goofyfoot2001 said:
Good time to start living a low carb diet with intermittent fasting since that is how you will be living. You might likely cure your Diabetes as well.
Click to expand...

You are 80% of the way to the answer of what to do to survive when they isn't medical care. Get yourself in a position where you aren't reliant on medication on a daily basis....if I continue to loose weight and exercise, I'm less reliant on my BP medicine and can come off of it, etc... which works for most people.

Unfortunately there are groups of people who are tethered to medication, such as Type 1 diabetes, or those who need seizure medication, etc to prevent life threatening illnesses.

There's a harsh reality that some will come to understand that a lot of people will die in not a great way when they loose access to medication or rely on medical equipment like ventilators, feeding tubes, dialysis, pacemakers, or the like.
 
Chuckman said:
The challenge becomes, where you source your supplies? Lidocaine is a prescription agent, and has an expiration date. Suturing is a fun skill, but when do you decide to do a primary versus secondary closure? And then how do you treat infection?

If you or your loved one has diabetes, asthma, heart problems, etc, how do you account for that? What do you do for parasitic infection because of dirty water?

And medical skills are skills, therefore perishable. How do you practice and stay current?

There's a lot of background to this. Not trying to dissuade anyone, just want to point out that once you peel that first layer of the onion there are 10 more layers under.
Click to expand...

Bleeding for the former, leeches the latter
 
NCMedic said:
@AR10ShooterinNC it's going to depend on the context of what you define as without the support of modern healthcare. Are you talking about a backwoods / austere situation where medical aid might be several days away and a Prolonged Field Care type thing where the endgame is still definitive care or a TEOTWAWKI type thing where the healthcare system ceases to exist anymore?

@Chuckman brings up several valid points. Books like When There Is No Doctor / Dentist, The Atlas of War Injuries and others that predate modern medicine are interesting reads but some of that information simply doesn't translate into practically any longer. I can get you PDFs of books that talk about compounding herbs and other compounds. But you are going to be hard pressed to find them when you need them.People don't grow Borage, Foxglove, and licorice root in their gardens anymore...

I will continue to hold the opinion that when society collapses, Insulin will be the most in demand medication and people will kill each other for it.
Click to expand...

I asking about for the TEOTWAWKI. I'm talking how treat people when there is no modern health care, say one year after an event, when modern medication is gone. I understand some people are just going to die do to lack of modern medicine. How do you treat a gun shot, a deep cut, deep puncture wood, ingrown toe nails, the more everyday accidents that happen.

I have had very good first aid training, and can deal with most of the common things, until I can get a person professional help.
 
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