Ok, I'll spare the story for now, but got a question: If I were to buy a 1974 dual sport that has no title, but has a bill of sale, what would I need to do to make it legal for me to plate etc?
Is it difficult, costly?
Is it difficult, costly?
Lost title / Bill of Sale - what to do?
- Thread starter HMP
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My first thought is if there is no title how do you know the person selling it actually owns it? Just a thought.
I think the original/current owner would have to apply for a replacement title before selling it to you. However, I really don’t know what I am talking about.
some states will give you the name of the last known address and you'll have to send a registered letter to them. If it comes back un opened. it's yours.
I know, I'm no help right here.
I know, I'm no help right here.
If whoever last had the title is alive, able to be contacted, and willing to help it is easy, I would insist the current owner handle that before the or at the time of sale.
I started down the gone route with a boat title, not terribly expensive, just a bunch of steps, imagine it's similar. DMV will line you out. I'd have them check the VIN before money changes hands at a minimum. BOS is not worth anything.
I started down the gone route with a boat title, not terribly expensive, just a bunch of steps, imagine it's similar. DMV will line you out. I'd have them check the VIN before money changes hands at a minimum. BOS is not worth anything.
You have to get the last known and attempt to contact. It's a huge pain in the butt. I did it on an old mustang back in high school. Took about 6months to go through the process. Maybe it's easier now. Can't say. Call the DMV. They'll talk you through the necessary process.
OP
I usually would steer clear of the BOS/no title situation...but on this, I worry that I wont find another one. I mean, Ive found one for sale in the past three or four years. Ive been looking.
But maybe youre all right, that I should avoid unless current owner has a title in hand.
But maybe youre all right, that I should avoid unless current owner has a title in hand.
OP
I have already requested pictures of serial number/VIN (as well as other pictures), and he says he'll deliver those soon (maybe tonight after he gets home)
Maybe after obtaining that I could contact the DMV and they would provide me with last known owner/titler? Or would they be able to tell me if it were stolen or not?
Maybe after obtaining that I could contact the DMV and they would provide me with last known owner/titler? Or would they be able to tell me if it were stolen or not?
Been through this several times; never again. It's not worth it, find another bike. Utter pain in the arse.
A bill of sale is worthless in North Carolina. If they do not have the title and can't get it before you turn over any money walk away. This state getting a title is almost impossible and expensive.
OP
I called the DMV inspector yesterday.
Not the nicest, smartest guy.
I asked him the process, he asked what the bike was I told him. He said something about now knowing what that was, I said it was, essentially, a street legal dirtbike. He's like, "well, there it is then, it never even had a title!" ...Well, sir, it actually did.
He kept on and at one point said to me, You couldnt put your hand on a Bible and swear that it was built from the factory like that (referencing DOT lights etc) and I said that yes, I could.
I dont think he liked that. I tried to be very polite with it all, explaining that I KNEW they had titles because WE STILL HAVE ONE for the bike I used to have.
Anyway, he pretty much said it wasnt going to work, that the current owner would have to do it.
That if I bought it and tried to get a title the first thing they'd do is ask who sold it with a BOS and then press charges against that person.
I spoke with the owner, he understood entirely. He said he'll go through the process
Not the nicest, smartest guy.
I asked him the process, he asked what the bike was I told him. He said something about now knowing what that was, I said it was, essentially, a street legal dirtbike. He's like, "well, there it is then, it never even had a title!" ...Well, sir, it actually did.
He kept on and at one point said to me, You couldnt put your hand on a Bible and swear that it was built from the factory like that (referencing DOT lights etc) and I said that yes, I could.
I dont think he liked that. I tried to be very polite with it all, explaining that I KNEW they had titles because WE STILL HAVE ONE for the bike I used to have.
Anyway, he pretty much said it wasnt going to work, that the current owner would have to do it.
That if I bought it and tried to get a title the first thing they'd do is ask who sold it with a BOS and then press charges against that person.
I spoke with the owner, he understood entirely. He said he'll go through the process
Burt Gummer
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As much as the folks at the DMV are SUPPOSED to know. They do not. And nor will they ever. You’d get more credible information from google. Which isn’t saying very much.
When you say the DMV, you mean the actual DMV? Or the place you get your tags and actual title work done?
When you say the DMV, you mean the actual DMV? Or the place you get your tags and actual title work done?
That doesn't stop any of the rest of us!!!
Burt's right. Call back every day get a different person..get a different answer...
You need to get another agent on the phone or educate that other dufuss. I hate the DMV.
https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/title-registration/special-cases/Pages/bonded-vehicles.aspx
https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/title-registration/special-cases/Pages/bonded-vehicles.aspx
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I did this with a lost title once, but I was buying from folks I knew, who were last listed on the title.
I asked them to sign a Power of Attorney that allowed me to act on their behalf in executing the process.
License plate and title contractor offices in NC are familiar with this POA approach.
If the current owner can find the owner who is listed on the missing title, it can be done for about $200 in DMV fees.
But, that may depend on the DMV helping the current owner find out who that is... they might not.
So it is easy only if the current owner knows who last had their name on the title.
If that involves another state, good luck!
I asked them to sign a Power of Attorney that allowed me to act on their behalf in executing the process.
License plate and title contractor offices in NC are familiar with this POA approach.
If the current owner can find the owner who is listed on the missing title, it can be done for about $200 in DMV fees.
But, that may depend on the DMV helping the current owner find out who that is... they might not.
So it is easy only if the current owner knows who last had their name on the title.
If that involves another state, good luck!
I'm going through this as we speak. We can't locate the titles to either of out trucks, I know their here but not exactly where.
The DMV form is MVR 4 and is to be completed by the owner of record, notarized and with a fee of 20.00 and a wait of 15 days. IF there was a record of a lien holder then a notarized statement of release of lien must be attached.
In the event of a title being found after filing for the duplicate it must be turned into the DMV to be destroyed.
The DMV form is MVR 4 and is to be completed by the owner of record, notarized and with a fee of 20.00 and a wait of 15 days. IF there was a record of a lien holder then a notarized statement of release of lien must be attached.
In the event of a title being found after filing for the duplicate it must be turned into the DMV to be destroyed.
OP
Problem is, DMV has no record of this bike
They only go back to 1995, and nothing for the VIN since then
current owner is working on this, I think we'll work out a deal!
They only go back to 1995, and nothing for the VIN since then
current owner is working on this, I think we'll work out a deal!
The DMV can't give out the old owner's name except under very limited circumstances and this currently isn't one of them. Doing so would violate federal law. They also will not generally let you have a title through the bond process if there is an old title on file to someone else. Plus, it may still be titled in another state. You can go online and run the VIN number through NMVTIS and see if it gives you any information about where the vehicle is titled and its brand status.
https://www.vehiclehistory.gov/
What you can also do as a last resort if you have already purchased the vehicle is to file a lawsuit and obtain a court order declaring you to be the legal owner. But doing that successfully is a little bit technical, and there are no guarantees, so you would want to have an attorney involved. The good thing is that litigation is an exception to the federal law that prohibits the release of personal identifying information from DMV records, so you could use the lawsuit as a means to obtain the name of the last titled owner (then work it out or name him in the lawsuit).
https://www.vehiclehistory.gov/
What you can also do as a last resort if you have already purchased the vehicle is to file a lawsuit and obtain a court order declaring you to be the legal owner. But doing that successfully is a little bit technical, and there are no guarantees, so you would want to have an attorney involved. The good thing is that litigation is an exception to the federal law that prohibits the release of personal identifying information from DMV records, so you could use the lawsuit as a means to obtain the name of the last titled owner (then work it out or name him in the lawsuit).
Cameron870
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You should be able to just take the BOS to the DMV and get it put in your name
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What kind of bike is it? Never mind is this it? Ask him why it was made in three different years? Slow assembly line? I like the bike and it looks to be in decent shape. Another option is to look for a frame that has a title at a junk yard and use that.
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OP
Oh I know, the ad is all sorts of messed up lol
BUT, I saw it, I saw the VIN sticker etc, it's def a 74
Been in communication with him, he's working on getting a title now
Vermont (iirc) will issue a temporary out of state registration/title and mail you a tag. Using a bill of sale IIRC.. once in your name and registered to you transfer the title to NC
I don't remember the specifics of the process but there's lots of info on the net about this process (provided they haven't recently stopped it).
Just make sure it's not stolen prior to purchase.
Disclaimer, I haven't gone through the above process but researched it heavily a few years ago when I was trying to buy an old shovel head with no title.
ETA: Vermont doesn't title vehicles older than 15 years, so NC will give you a title with a Vermont registration (provided this hasn't changed).
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I don't remember the specifics of the process but there's lots of info on the net about this process (provided they haven't recently stopped it).
Just make sure it's not stolen prior to purchase.
Disclaimer, I haven't gone through the above process but researched it heavily a few years ago when I was trying to buy an old shovel head with no title.
ETA: Vermont doesn't title vehicles older than 15 years, so NC will give you a title with a Vermont registration (provided this hasn't changed).
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OP
Probably, but it seems to me that the “Vermont process” is a bit shady as well.
OP
How so?
It is completely legal way of getting registration on a vehicle that has had the title lost.
They run the numbers and check to see if it's stolen etc (you have to provide pictures of VIN as well as putting who you bought it from (and the BoS) etc
They want your money, unlike NC who wants to give you a hard time
What I’m perceiving to be “shady” is that the buyer has no way of knowing if the seller truly lost the title, or if it was stolen and not reported. Let’s say that a young teenager bought the bike with a title 20 years ago, grew up and left it in their parents (or grandparents) shed. Someone breaks into the shed and steals it. The owner doesn’t know where the title is, cuz they were just a kid when they bought it. The parents don’t know, so it goes either unreported or reported w/o a VIN number.
Now, if you knew the chain of ownership and could talk to the person that the VIN indicated had owned it and they unequivocally stated that they had the title and lost it, then it’s probably 100% legit.
Otherwise it’s a tad bit shady IMO.
If a VIN check came up clean I’d probably follow the same course as you are in this particular situation, and am glad to know that the VT route is an option, but I’d probably try to track down the owner based upon the registration and confirm with them that they had sold the bike.
YMMV.
Now, if you knew the chain of ownership and could talk to the person that the VIN indicated had owned it and they unequivocally stated that they had the title and lost it, then it’s probably 100% legit.
Otherwise it’s a tad bit shady IMO.
If a VIN check came up clean I’d probably follow the same course as you are in this particular situation, and am glad to know that the VT route is an option, but I’d probably try to track down the owner based upon the registration and confirm with them that they had sold the bike.
YMMV.