Mass shooting solutions?

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I'm interested in potential solutions from our community. Please post up some ideas.

  1. Personally I want campus carry (or carry anywhere). Even if all CCW/CHP holders carried every day it is still only about 3% of the population (about 11 million CCW/CHP holders in the USA http://www.crimeresearch.org/wp-con...y-Permit-Holders-Across-the-United-States.pdf)
  2. More security at schools sounds great, but I also wonder how many schools there are in the USA and is this feasible economically. Would you accept a tax increase to pay for this?
  3. How do you suggest to address "mental health" without forming a "pre-crime" unit. I wonder what would have happened if some law enforcement agency simply talked with Cruz and he know he was on their radar. Most folks talk tough but shrivel when they know they are "suspects"
  4. I'm not a fan of "big brother" but it seems like issuing some surveillance warrants (and following through them) on people that make threats in person or the web might be prudent. Obviously more people would be needed which equals more money. I bet if the FBI just sent a post-card to people that made internet threats (that said the FBI has been made award of threats you have posted on...) many of those folks would be scared off the ledge.

What are your thoughts/solutions?

I believe "Evil walks among us" and "freedom is dangerous" are losing arguments right now.

There is MOMENTUM for gun control right now and if we can't provide solutions, someone else will provide them for us and we won't like it....
 
As you said, schools cant afford to beef up security, some are running on tight budgets as it is.

I am for letting teachers be armed if they'd like, but not sure I would want it on the person at all times. Maybe a bolted down pistol safe in the room?
But, back to #1, money.
 
HMP said:
As you said, schools cant afford to beef up security, some are running on tight budgets as it is.

I am for letting teachers be armed if they'd like, but not sure I would want it on the person at all times. Maybe a bolted down pistol safe in the room?
But, back to #1, money.
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Yep, can't afford security if you have to pay for a bloated administrative bureaucracy. Probably the same reason teachers don't have all the supplies they need either. When I go to my daughter's school and go check in at the office I always feel like asking all the people in there "WTF do you people do here?"
 
CZfool68 said:
Yep, can't afford security if you have to pay for a bloated administrative bureaucracy. Probably the same reason teachers don't have all the supplies they need either. When I go to my daughter's school and go check in at the office I always feel like asking all the people in there "WTF do you people do here?"
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I love you man!!!!! Schools are broke because politicians and administrators choose them to be.
 
It's not the schools. Society is broken. Feminism and gender rolls, social media, bullying and an overload of sexuality, coupled with massive amounts of mind altering drugs prescribed by drug companies and spoon fed to kids by absentee parents... It's amazing to me it doesn't happen more. Not sure if I would make it through school age if I was a child in this day and age...
 
It would go a long way toward deterring these acts just to repeal the GFSZA. Whether or not teathers choose to arm themselve can be a discussion for a later time. Right now schools are known to be soft targets. Sooner or later it won’t be just homegrown loonies taking advantage of this weakness.
 
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bigfelipe said:
It's not the schools. Society is broken. Feminism and gender rolls, social media, bullying and an overload of sexuality, coupled with massive amounts of mind altering drugs prescribed by drug companies and spoon fed to kids by absentee parents... It's amazing to me it doesn't happen more. Not sure if I would make it through school age if I was a child in this day and age...
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I know I wouldn't. When I was in Middle school and probably my first two years of high school I was tall. About once a year there was either a little ass testing me, or an older kid wanting to beat the snot out of the tall kid. I remember 7th grade I had a really big 8th grader start to torment me. I decided to take him on one day. I lost. But I didn't really get on trouble. Just a day or two of detention I think. And later the other kid tried to befriend me. These days I would have had a black mark in my file. I totally destroyed a kid my freshman year of high school after putting up with his crap for a while. He ended up flying over some desks and sustaining a decent little cut. My teacher didn't even send me to the office because he knew the other kid was an asshat. These days I would have been branded a bad seed and drugged. I ended up graduating HS with honors and if my memory is correct something like. 96 average out of 100.
 
General safety rather than mass shooter specific.

1) do away with gun free zones unless you have the resources to ensure they are actually gun free.
2) prosecute straw purchasers.
3) take all that Bloomberg money and make sure that counties have staff to make timely entries into NICS.
4) readily available temporary offsite storage for people trying new meds/changing meds/having kids visit.
 
I was expecting more out of this group. If this is the best we can come up with, I expect the "assault weapons ban" w age restrictions and capacity limits will be back in place soon....I think the public wants to "do something" to "feel safe"
 
vp9c said:
I was expecting more out of this group. If this is the best we can come up with, I expect the "assault weapons ban" w age restrictions and capacity limits will be back in place soon....I think the public wants to "do something" to "feel safe"
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You mean the redneck brain trust didn't solve this problem overnight? Shame.

More time machines! that's the answer. we just go back to actual shootings and investigate the hell out of those shooters.

Scratch that, for every shooting this method prevents the trust will claim that there really was no threat and the Govt. is just being tyrannical cause that's what they do.
 
I'm not sure there is a single best answer. It may take a combination of solutions to ever reduce (NOT eliminate) the frequency of the school shootings. Stop the rifles and they'll use handguns. Raise the purchase age limit and they'll steal them from parents or parents of friends. Stop the handguns and they'll turn to bombs they make from recipes found on the internet.

It's not the medium used in the violence, it's the perpetrator. Hell, a 16 year old can just drive his/her car right down the hallway and kill more than with a rifle. There is no end, and there will never be an end..... It's become the "New Normal".....
 
I think the most practical answer is to allow guns on campus.

We won't be able to afford competent security.

There is no law that will help--the pen is not mightier than the bullet or evil will; sorry.

There's an answer somewhere in the orbit of "mental health," but I don't know where, when, or how. As mentioned, I don't want the Minority Report played out in real life. I also don't want people to be afraid to seek mental help when they may need it (for fear of consequences).

If we examine times where/when we had "success" (as defined by "school shootings" not being a part of our common news feed), I think we can extract some formulas for success (or at least a base to start from). One of those would be allowing guns back on campus. I'm not talking Wild West, everyone rootin' tootin' and open carrying. I'm talking like everywhere else in our land. Hell I can carry in a bank for Pete's sake. But not at school--noooooo...the childrens might evaporate into a pile of rose petal dust if they even come near a gun!!!

We need to strong arm this liberal limp wrist mindset that has permeated our society if we want to get real about a feasible fix. Otherwise, it'll be your kid or mine next...
 
The solution need not cost anything: better parenting and remove the progressive agenda from schools. Kids need to have something to do besides play computer games and look for trouble on the Internet; they need interaction with their parents. I know Cruz lost his parents. That's a shame, but if he had received attention from a right-minded family, or even teachers, I don't think this would have happened. Yes, he was "living with" a friend's family. Good on them for taking him in, but it doesn't sound like Cruz had a real relationship with anyone. He posted clear warning signs, and escalated when these didn't produce the attention he needed. Focusing on the weapons is not only unhelpful but it's counterproductive because it avoids the real problem.
 
First, there is no magic solution that will stop attempted mass killings. Not without stepping all over our liberties further than we have already allowed. And even then it wouldn’t help, it would simply change the weapon of choice.

But the simplest and most effective way to make a difference is to end gun free zones. Too many people act like that is a sacrosanct law that has been in place since the dawn of time but it hasn’t. It wasn’t put in place until relatively recently.

To be reported as a mass shooting 4 or more people have to be killed. There have been an enormous number of people attempting a mass shooting in places that weren’t gun free zones that ended before 4 or more people were killed because someone with a gun was able and willing to return fire. You have to dig to find these stories because they do not fit the agenda.
 
Guys, telling the liberals that what they are doing, ie socially “progressive” policy, is fueling the long term problems for which these shootings are just one symptom is NOT going to appease them.

I don’t feel like appeasing them today, maybe tomorrow. Most important, they just want to do something, it doesn’t need to work, and they’ll be super happy if it doesn’t because then they get to do something else next time.
 
Well if they did some thing different next time that might be an improvement. Problem is they keep doing the same stupid stuff expecting different results.
 
HMP said:
As you said, schools cant afford to beef up security, some are running on tight budgets as it is.
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They wouldn't have that problem if they quit adding salaried positions to the administration side of school systems. When they started treating school systems as corporations they started to run out of money. Last year the Davidson County School board added - no lie - an assistant to the assistant of the superintendent to the payroll. Now they're trying to make it required that every teacher, janitor, and cafeteria worker be qualified to drive a bus...not the administrators tho, they're too important to help out with the grunt work.
 
Brian K said:
They wouldn't have that problem if they quit adding salaried positions to the administration side of school systems. When they started treating school systems as corporations they started to run out of money. Last year the Davidson County School board added - no lie - an assistant to the assistant of the superintendent to the payroll. Now they're trying to make it required that every teacher, janitor, and cafeteria worker be qualified to drive a bus...not the administrators tho, they're too important to help out with the grunt work.
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When I lived in the Bay Area out in CA some enterprising, honest reporter did a story comparing the public school systems in Oakland and SF with the SF Catholic School System. The classic part was when they compared student numbers and 'administrators'. The Catholic School system has exactly 1 secretary at the time. She was asked how she kept up with all the work for thousands of students. She said something to the effect of 'they gave me a computer.'

I find it amazing that in my lifetime we have added all this awe-inspiring computer technology that virtually every industry has used to do more with less. EXCEPT the public sector. We get a few % increase in populations, but we need larger increases in government workers to do the job. Federal, State and local institutions should have been shrinking in the last 50 years due to technology. Sadly, there is no accountability so the beast grows.
 
This is going to ruffle some feathers but oh well. We need to face the fact that not every child needs to be in general education class rooms. My wife has students that have serious mental/personality issues in her class that pose a threat to her and the other students in the class. These kids are may spend some time in special ed classes but are spend a significant amount of time in regular classes for "socialization". I feel for these kids (I have an autistic cousin) but there is no reason a teen ager who has violent outbursts to be allowed in a typical class room. Teachers/Admins hands are tied when dealing with these kids because of the red tape associated with discipline or putting them in a more specialized life skills program if the parents fail to accept the fact the child has problems.
 
Not every problem requires a government solution, least of all a federal government solution. These things should be handled at the local level, preferably at the FAMILY level. Ref. my post above. The schools have plenty of money, the school boards just choose to spend it on the wrong stuff. Tell your school board you are tired of the way they are handling things, and work to elect a better one. I'll bet very few voters research the school board candidates before election day.
 
You guys saying family and childhood roots are the issue: you're 100% correct. But practically speaking, you're pissing in the wind.
 
School shooting started about 1840. So ending them probably won't happen. But slowing them down might.

Chdamn said:
First, there is no magic solution that will stop attempted mass killings. Not without stepping all over our liberties further than we have already allowed. And even then it wouldn’t help, it would simply change the weapon of choice.

But the simplest and most effective way to make a difference is to end gun free zones. Too many people act like that is a sacrosanct law that has been in place since the dawn of time but it hasn’t. It wasn’t put in place until relatively recently.

To be reported as a mass shooting 4 or more people have to be killed. There have been an enormous number of people attempting a mass shooting in places that weren’t gun free zones that ended before 4 or more people were killed because someone with a gun was able and willing to return fire. You have to dig to find these stories because they do not fit the agenda.
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The GFSZA was signed in 1990. That was the year school shootings really started to escalate BTW.

The strict definition of mass shooting, FBI and oddly Mother Jones, is 4 dead in one incident. But some folks out there have dropped it to 3 for their research or added "killed or injured" to raise the number. Drop it by 1 person and you do 2 things. Most shootings stopped by a gun carrier stop about 2-3, so you get to include more of those. And the number goes up just because of the definition change.

As to the schools.

-End GFSZ and let the district decide what to do. Liberals get to keep them gun free, conservative areas can arm teachers if they want. Fedgovco started this, most likely they are not the solution to it. Oddly enough, we can do this without dropping GFSZA but I think it needs to go from an optics standpoint. And it would make things easier.

-Effective barriers, starting at the entrances and ending with the class rooms. Harden them where possible. Again, this should be a local decision but I would not be opposed to state or fed financial help to make it happen. But schools like my daughters will be impossible to do much for. I went there in HS, that school sucks from this standpoint. 80-90% of the classrooms have no door, walls, or ceilings. Almost completely open, separated by bulletin boards. Some moron thought this was a good idea.

-Mental health issues need to be fleshed out, but very carefully. This is where we could get in a bind. We can't be for keeping guns out of the hands of nuts but not for a responsible way to do it. For me, the due process issue will have to be taken seriously OR the scope will need to be limited in relation to how long it applies. And that may be oversimplifying it. Currently you have to be adjudicated mentally ill or involuntarily committed. That's probably the direction we need to take it, but possibly flesh out how you adjudicate someone that is showing signs. And in reality, it just might not work out.

-Dr's need to start having serious discussions about the side effects to psychotropic and psychoactive meds. They usually include suicidal or homicidal thoughts. At the large scale they are being administered, even a small side effect pool could account for these shooters. Since they are a small pool of individuals to start with. And I think the pharma companies need to be taken to task for this. Why we think administering opioids irresponsibly is possible but over medicating kids irresponsibly isn't is beyond me.

-On the down side, I think raising the age to buy a long gun has the best chance of passing. Better than the bump stock ban IMO. But honestly, it's the only solution that actually attempts to address the problem. Will it stop kids from getting access to guns? Not completely. But it would keep them from buying guns when they come from families that don't have them to access. They just stopped a kid in VT or NY that was 18 that had purchased a shotgun with the intent to shoot up a school. It's targeting the age range for most of these problems. Not that I'm actually a fan, but it's going to be hard to argue against it and convince folks to not support it. And I know all the arguments against it.
 
SPST said:
I'm not opposed to raising the age to buy a gun as long as it is the same age to be able to vote. After all, if you aren't mature enough to buy a gun you sure as hell aren't mature enough to vote.
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And to have to register for selective service or join the military and sign any legal contract.
 
I think we should put metal detectors in all schools. Raise the gas tax 1-2 cents per gallon and use the extra money generated to pay for the expense. Have it written that once they have been paid for that the tax is then rescinded.
I am also fine with teachers carrying if they so choose.
Some sort of locks on the classroom doors would be nice.
I am not against raising the legal age to buy an AR either. Unless this revokes my CFF privileges then forget it.
 
Not all bad guys will walk in the front or back doors, they can just bust a window and gain access.
I'd like to see gun free zones go away, just another BS charge added on to drug dealers when they are armed
while selling their drugs on campus. Plea deal it away, serve months not years.

All faculty and staff should be trained as SRO's, firearm training for all of them,
not all will be armed, their choice, should an armed SRO go down, any other SRO can take
the weapon and eliminate the threat. Nobody but high level administration will know the exact
number of armed SRO's. 200 on staff, and only five armed, no problem.
 
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This 21 year old gig, as proposed by ya'll is WAY too logical to make it through the political system. You folks make me actually think through to the end. This time I think.....you ae exactly right. You either is or you ain't a young'un. I especially agree about the voting age! Thanks...
 
It does seem as if kids mature a lot slower than they used to.
Let’s face it: an AR15 (or mini14) is capable of some serious firepower. It is an epic responsibility. And I’ve met plenty of 18 years olds that leave me less than impressed.

I guess I have become my father!
 
One of the reasons that kids mature more slowly now is because expectations keep getting pushed back. I am pretty young, but among my friends from high school, the ones who have done well (i.e. gotten a stable job, started to settle down, contribute to society) all share a similar sort of expectation from our parents. Grow up, move out, get on with life. Historically, the concept of teenagers being a transition stage from childhood to adulthood is a relatively recent phenomenon. The more society pushes the line back, the slower the maturation process will occur.
 
Quick points for discussion based on probability of happening..

Raising the purchase age will happen on federal level.

Bump stocks may happen because it is such a niche market the Reps will see it as a small loss.

Background checks may go back to 7 days. The current atf standard is 3 days max which isn't enough with current staff levels.

Purchase approval is standardized somehow. Currently it is set by state policy. This will not happen as states will want to keep control of the revenue.

Licensing to buy and sell. Won't happen now but will someday similar to a driver's license or cch. It will get pushed through as a revenue generating measure most likely.
 
This page seems overly complicated to me. Look at the big ones: Columbine, VT, Newtown, Florida... these guys are all basically the same person.

Single em out... eff em. I know ill get lectured by someone about civil liberties... but if its mine versus some proven psycho who authorities refuse to act on? Just take the got dam psycho away please.

The reason this doesn't already happen is because lefties coddle proven psychos (and hate normal gun owners). One or the other is gonna get labeled... label the freaks.
 
1. Stop drugging kids

2. Eliminate Gun Free Zones. Full on Constitutional Carry

3. Disarm Democrats

4. Enforce existing laws on everybody

Those 4 would virtually eliminate gun crime in the US. But if you want to double down on safety...

5. Eliminate public schools
 
How about admitting this is not a problem. I mean, it is horrific, but if your goal is to save children the numbers are infinity small in the school shooting category. Drug overdose, medical mistakes, auto accidents, obesity all eclipse the gun death numbers.
 
Have ya'll noticed since 9-11, since the shoe bomber incident and....well, that's about all I can remember. So, since those..No more plane bombs, no more high jackings of planes, no terrorist activity at Pro sports games, things are pretty quiet on the major fronts in this country. I think this is because the entire country has fallen in line with WHATEVER precautions are necessary to stop them. The WILL to do something effective. This same attitude can be put to work in public schools. Yes, it will require a change in our lives. Just like things at airports and stadiums have changed. It will require a government, whether Federal or home town governments, to decide ...This Is Enough!
For gosh sakes, we all know it's not the guns, don't be pulled into that. Respond...LOUDLY...let's DO something. Yes, it will cost more. Ask the airlines and other places where there are no terrorist acts going on. It's expensive...how much is your grandchild's life worth? These local, state, and Federal thieves are stealing and wasting money that could stop this.
I don't care if the guards that enforce the entry regulations are Homeland, local Poleeece, Sheriff's Deputies, or contract workers. I personally think contract workers would do a better job protecting schools. They sure as Hell can't do worse than the bunch in Florida did.
Enough rambling..there is a way to fix this...we know it. Go to the airport near you today. If the Locals can do it there, they can do it at the school house. It's simply a matter of WILL. Remember, don't let "them" side track you with guns. Do not be afraid to correct them..even to the point of being Impolite. I am offended that they try to mash this crap down my throat and change the issue to guns. It's personal safety x 1,000. We know they can provide it, they do everyday. The safest place any of us could live is in an airport. Let's make the schools the same way.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Have ya'll noticed since 9-11, since the shoe bomber incident and....well, that's about all I can remember. So, since those..No more plane bombs, no more high jackings of planes, no terrorist activity at Pro sports games, things are pretty quiet on the major fronts in this country. I think this is because the entire country has fallen in line with WHATEVER precautions are necessary to stop them. The WILL to do something effective. This same attitude can be put to work in public schools. Yes, it will require a change in our lives. Just like things at airports and stadiums have changed. It will require a government, whether Federal or home town governments, to decide ...This Is Enough!
For gosh sakes, we all know it's not the guns, don't be pulled into that. Respond...LOUDLY...let's DO something. Yes, it will cost more. Ask the airlines and other places where there are no terrorist acts going on. It's expensive...how much is your grandchild's life worth? These local, state, and Federal thieves are stealing and wasting money that could stop this.
I don't care if the guards that enforce the entry regulations are Homeland, local Poleeece, Sheriff's Deputies, or contract workers. I personally think contract workers would do a better job protecting schools. They sure as Hell can't do worse than the bunch in Florida did.
Enough rambling..there is a way to fix this...we know it. Go to the airport near you today. If the Locals can do it there, they can do it at the school house. It's simply a matter of WILL. Remember, don't let "them" side track you with guns. Do not be afraid to correct them..even to the point of being Impolite. I am offended that they try to mash this crap down my throat and change the issue to guns. It's personal safety x 1,000. We know they can provide it, they do everyday. The safest place any of us could live is in an airport. Let's make the schools the same way.
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There are no more hijackings because THERE ARE GUNS IN THE COCKPIT. FFDO program. We need that for teacher. FEDERAL FLIGHT DECK OFFICERS. Volunteer pilots who are trained and deputized. Do it with teachers.
 
I throw up a little every time I see someone on a 2a forum asking for more .gov regulation. Silly me, thinking others value freedom too.
 
DrPhudd said:
I throw up a little every time I see someone on a 2a forum asking for more .gov regulation. Silly me, thinking others value freedom too.
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This is a firearms forum correct?

I do not remember seeing a statement on sign-up presenting an interpretation of 2a and an requiring agreement with that interpretation.

That being said...a forum of nothing but "yes men" would be boring so some folks will always ask questions if for no other reason than to see if people can actually explain their responses.
 
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