Most Complete Rebuttal to an Anti

Chdamn

Chdamn

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The following was a post on tumblr by a guy whose handle is theheartbrokenlibertarian to someone posting the usual drivel about the founding fathers not forseeing semiauto weapon and that if you aren’t in the national guard (what they claimed is the militia) to sit down and shut up.

We have all said similar things but this was such a well put together response with the quotes and history to back it up I thought I would share it.



Ohhhh you asked for it! Buckle in for your wall of text!

@playfulpanthress et al - Here is some information on how your suppositions about the Second Amendment are incorrect.

THE SECOND AMENDMENT WAS WRITTEN SPECIFICALLY TO EMPOWER PRIVATE CITIZENS TO GO TO WAR AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT, OR AGAINST ANY OTHER ENEMY. THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS SO THAT ALL OF US ARE ABLE TO DEFEND OUR RIGHTS FROM ANY ENEMY THAT MAY THREATEN THEM. IT IS FOR WAR.IT’S FOR KILLING PEOPLE. IT’S SO THAT WE CAN MARCH ON WASHINGTON AND FORCIBLY UNSEAT ANY CORRUPT BASTARDS THAT TRY TO TAKE AWAY OUR RIGHTS, OR PROTECT OURSELVES FROM ANY SORT OF INVASION.

THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS THE “EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS” FOR IN CASE THE FIRST AMENDMENT STOPS WORKING, OR WORSE, IS TAKEN AWAY.

The preeminent Whig historian, Thomas Macaulay, labelled this “the security without which every other is insufficient,“ and a century earlier the great jurist, William Blackstone, regarded private arms as the means by which a people might vindicate their other rights if these were suppressed. [x]

It’s not for hunting, it’s not for self defense, it’s not for target practice or sport. It IS for war. It’s so that we can be as well-armed as (or, hopefully, be better armed than) any enemy we may need to fend off, including our own government. It’s there to at least make the government think twice about trying to take away our rights, to let them know that there is an armed populace out there, ready and wiling to defend its freedoms. It’s there to give us a fighting chance at keeping and maintaining the liberty that our forefathers fought and died for, and yes, it includes AK-47s. In fact, it also includes cannon and full auto machine guns and war ships as well, and includes anybody, no matter what, acquiring as many as they want, but we’ve let those rights be infringed anyway.

And there are extremely valid reasons for the amendment being written the way it was - unchangeable. One of the MAIN reasons is that the founding fathers didn’t trust the government NOR the people. They knew the government would try to become corrupt, try to enlarge and empower itself, try to take more control than they laid it out to have. And they could clearly see the people falling for the lines that government fed them in order to make them believe that giving it more power was a good thing, was what they wanted. They knew exactly what was coming, and they predicted it pretty much flawlessly. That’s why they wrote it to be perfectly solid. Thank God!

Here, let me break it down for you. But before I get into that, you have to remember that language is fluid and that it changes over the years, that the definitions of words change and adapt all the time - for example, the word “great” used to exclusively mean very large, the word terrible used to exclusively mean awe-inspiringly, the word sick used to exclusively mean ill - so you have to look at the words and phrasing from the point of view of the time it was written, and you can’t apply our current use of language to it.
 
Continued.

Sit tight, here we go.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

A WELL REGULATED

MEANS: hooked up; well outfitted; well provided for; has lots of all the latest and greatest things; well-armed
DOES NOT MEAN: heavily legislated; under intense governmental scrutiny; subject to lots of laws and ordinances

MILITIA

MEANS: the populace; a general, unofficial body of those citizens physically able to engage in combat; those of us who have guns; a self organized and self managed group of people gathered for the purposes of defense
DOES NOT MEAN: official, government-sanctioned, -approved, and -run military installment that is slightly less formal than the Armed Forces; a junior or local sub-branch of the federal Armed Forces

BEING NECESSARY TO

MEANS: is the reason why; is required for; also, the wording here, and the preceding comma, replaces using “because this…” at the beginning of the sentence as we would use it today - it’s just rearranged
DOES NOT MEAN: if it becomes needed; only when needed; in times of threat but not otherwise

THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE

MEANS: the defense of freedoms; the protection of rights and freedoms; maintaining sovereignty; protection from takeover (foreign or domestic)
DOES NOT MEAN: keeping us safe from any danger whatsoever; the protection of individuals from individuals

THE RIGHT

MEANS: full personal entitlement; the freedom; the free ability; the personal decision whether or not to; the God-given, free and clear, dependent only upon existing, choice
DOES NOT MEAN: sometimes, depending upon some people’s opinion, the ability to; the ability to, dependent upon whether or not one is allowed

OF THE PEOPLE

MEANS: all legal inhabitants; all citizens of legal age of majority/responsibility
DOES NOT MEAN: some citizens, if they meet certain criteria; those citizens who have certain abilities or characteristics; only those citizens who qualify; citizens who meet certain restrictions or requirements; all citizens except those who do not meet certain qualifications

TO KEEP AND BEAR

MEANS: ‘to participate in any actions associated with’; to possess and carry and use in any manner; to have; to acquire; to carry on their person or in their conveyance
DOES NOT MEAN: to own but have stored elsewhere; to be issued as and when, according to circumstances; to have a limited number of; to own but leave administration of to others; to have but with restrictions

ARMS

MEANS: weapons or armament of any kind; offensive or defensive weapons; ordnance; guns, missiles, swords, knives, cannon, explosives; ammunition for weapons; any instrument intended for defense or offense against any person or thing; any item necessary to operate or maintain the above
DOES NOT MEAN: certain kinds of weapons; some but not all defensive implements;

SHALL NOT BE

MEANS: must never, ever, under any circumstances, be, no matter what
DOES NOT MEAN: should not be; will hopefully not be; can only be under some conditions; can be, if legally restricted; is allowed to be if new laws are created

INFRINGED

MEANS: taken away; restricted in any way; put conditions or requirements upon; diminished; changed or updated; made new laws about; limited in any way; re-legislated; detracted from; invalidated
DOES NOT MEAN: taken away, unless lots of people think it should be; changed, unless opinions change; updated, if people think that’s what they want

THEREFORE, were the second amendment written today, it would read:

Because a thoroughly hooked up and well-armed population is the only way our nation will ever be able to remain free and sovereign, and the only way we will ever keep our rights and liberties, every single person in this country is freely allowed to possess any firearm or weapon and use said weapon in any way, and nobody is allowed to ever change or restrict, or limit laws about, or prevent any citizen from owning, keeping, or using any kind of firearm or weapon, even if people think that’s what they want.

-

There is NO DEBATE on the meaning of the Second Amendment.

Seriously! This is not up for debate. It’s not questionable, and it’s not open to interpretation, by you or me or anybody! That was settled and made clear a long time ago, and it has nothing to do with what you think a “militia” is, for one thing, and nothing to do with “muskets” either, for that matter.

YOU SIMPLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THE WORDS MEAN.

The Founding Fathers - these well-educated, highly intelligent leaders who had lived under tyranny and had lived free - were not simply lofty academics and aristocrats. They WERE ALSO SOLDIERS. Seventeen of the men who sighed the Declaration of Independence fought in the Revolutionary War, against the might of the British Empire and her King, some as simple soldiers, some as officers, ALL as fighting men. These were men intimately familiar with weapons, with guns (certainly not limited to muskets!), with tactics, with leadership, with armies - with WAR. They didn’t just pull their ideas out of their asses! Many had fought in other wars, and many had drafted and negotiated other treaties, as well. These men knew very well what they were talking about.

Nor did the Founding Fathers just shit out the Constitution and/or the Bill of Rights overnight, or off the top of their heads. They didn’t forget about it until the night before it was due.

These things were passionately discussed and debated and researched and proven over the course of several months, and those discussions and debates were thoroughly documented.

These documents meant EVERYTHING to them, and to the people for whom they were being written. This drafting would have been equivalent to the 9/11 news coverage of the day! It was a BIG DEAL, even then; they knew they were building history. People were watching, recording, discussing everywhere. It’s ALL written down.

The Framers were extremely clear about exactly what they intended, solid evidence of which you can find by studying contemporary literature and documentation surrounding the authoring of the Second Amendment. Letters, speeches, publications, etc., written by and to the framers, as well as the public, - which clearly spell out the full intent of the law, explain the law in simple terms, and give insight into popular and official opinion about the law - are still freely available today. I’ve linked a handful, but it’s very easy to find this information, and I encourage - nay, beg - you to seek it out.
 
Continued

Here are just a few examples of their clear definitions, though, in case you don’t feel like researching something so extremely important:

—–> “I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.”
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
- Richard Henry Lee, Signer of the Declaration, A Framer of the Second Amendment in the First Congress

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

[On our military superiority over a tyrannical enemy] …This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.“
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

“To disarm the people…s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
- George Mason, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

That could not be more clear. This “militia” is us. It’s you and me and everyone reading this and everyone else. THE MILITIA IS THE PEOPLE, THE CITIZENS, YOU AND ME.

If nothing else, please do take a look at THIS DOCUMENT. It lays out the history and the clear reasoning behind the Founding Fathers’ drafting of the Second Amendment. It is thoroughly sourced, and it is detailed.

(There is A LOT MORE information on the subjects of the Second Amendment, guns in general, and the common misconceptions and disinformation about them compiled HERE, if you’re interested in understanding the subject.)

(And if for some reason that link doesn’t work, because some folks have said it doesn’t - I think on mobile? - you can just go to my main page and click the link that reads SECOND AMENDMENT in the top of the page, where the link to send asks lives.)
 
Well damn! That just made my day. Flat out perfect. I was picturing @wsfiredude or @SPM standing in front of a group of us, AR slung, barking with the most patriotic fervor, while I read it.

Going to print this out. Not that it would change the mind of any liberal left wing idiot but thankfully I don't know any of them.

Thanks for posting.
 
Hit. Dead center. Intersecting lines of the 'X".

I would agree that much of society doesn't understand the intent behind the 2nd, but imo, the "ruling elite" know exactly what it means...they just don't like it. Why?

Because maybe, just maybe, they may get their wish; a nation of slaves, but it ain't gonna be a f*cking cakewalk.
 
That was great. I bet there was a meltdown - would like to see that.
To paraphrase his eloquent response:
"Everything you have said [anti-2A drivel] is factually, provably, demonstrably wrong. And your pathetic "wishing" won't change the definitions of words. So sad."
:D
 
CZfool68 said:
The problem with that response is that it goes well beyond an ignorant Marxist's ability to stay focused. And their brains are moved by emotion, not fact. Otherwise we wouldn't have these arguments in the first place.
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This totally. And the fact that they don't want to be proven wrong. It hurts. It hurts emotionally and intellectually. They are incapable of even considering that they may be freakin wrong about something. Everything they do and every position they take is so absolutely common sense and justified, that any argument that subjects them to flaws is..must..be dismissed.
Deep down they know they're wrong and they don't have a coherent answer. But if we just keep on trying something, it will sort itself out and ultimately turn into a rainbow.
 
3ought2 said:
Careful now, often times require and prohibit are different sides of the same coin. "Ones' freedom ends where anothers' begins." Not being overly serious but...
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Meh. Nobody reads the sticky’s anyway.
 
I don't understand how the Supreme Court, whose only job is to preserve the Constitution, cannot grasp the concept of the words written. How dare they put their own agendas in front of words written so concisely that misinterpretation is almost impossible. I just don't get it.
 
I've read and re-read this several times since last night as it moves me each time I read it. I keep going over it finding more details and facts that build a tremendous narrative against the antis.

We should all be able to articulate clearly how much the 2A means to us individually when necessary. This guy's response will help many of us pull bullet points from it to use in declaring our position on 2A.

@Chdamn
I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to post this and I'm creating a document from it to share with my family and friends.
 
That was probably the best defense of the 2nd amendment I have ever read. Thank you to @Chdamn for posting. I will be sending this along to everyone I know who can spread the word.

Just a few more quotes from the founders, and one modern thinking liberal (I know, but there seems to be at least one):

“The constitution shall never be construed...to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”
― Alexander Hamilton

“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.”
― George Washington

“[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.”
― James Madison

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry

“Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the Constitution by claiming it's not an individual right or that it's too much of a public safety hazard, don't see the danger in the big picture. They're courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution they don't like.”
― Alan M. Dershowitz
 
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US vs Miller 1939 got it partically correct. They upheld the NFA of 34' and taxes BUT acknowledged that the 2A was for military arms.

CD
 
The only thing I disagree with here is that the 2nd is for the individual right to defend oneself from any threat, it doesn't HAVE to be governmental tyranny, although I agree that is it's primary purpose. All in all I think this is a fantastic document.

The greatest badass in history says so:

“A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient
arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to
abuse them, which would include their own government.”
-George Washington
 
CZfool68 said:
You can tack this short piece on as well.

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=233077
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Denninger rocks. He says destroy them.

If you believe in America you have a duty to boycott and legally destroy all businesses that take such a position along with legally destroying the political and economic future of any politician or other public employee, whether federal, state or local, along with any "spokesperson" and everyone that benefits from their activity who adopts any such position in any way, shape or form.​

Yep.
 
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