NC Trooper Shot & Killed

:(
 
I don't know who it is, but I know who it isn't... I have a couple of friends that work the eastern side and when I heard this morning about the incident I immediately texted them both asking for any reply at all. I have heard back from both so their safe.

My sympathies and prayers to the family.....
 
Dangerous job in the extreme. Got a bud whose son is a trooper. My buds hair turned gray overnight worrying about him.
 
That does suck. And I know I've harped on this before, but most of these are completely avoidable. Just takes two steps:

1. Always have 2 Officers in a car.

2. Make less traffic stops.

We need less PD cars, officers working in teams and stop with traffic stops that aren't really necessary. Not sure how fast the criminal was driving, or if it was really dangerous in this case, but it is a shame the Trooper died over a traffic violation.
 
CZfool68 said:
That does suck. And I know I've harped on this before, but most of these are completely avoidable. Just takes two steps:

1. Always have 2 Officers in a car.

2. Make less traffic stops.

We need less PD cars, officers working in teams and stop with traffic stops that aren't really necessary. Not sure how fast the criminal was driving, or if it was really dangerous in this case, but it is a shame the Trooper died over a traffic violation.
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Unfortunately that is not the life of a State Highway Patrolman. In a perfect world two officers for every car would be awesome but it's just not feasible.
 
CZfool68 said:
Why?
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Money! Taxation is theft after all. The NCSHP is also responsible for vast amounts of roads and two officers in different cars can cover twice as much. People hate hearing about the large budgets they already have but you take and double that and see the anger.
 
Cowboy said:
Money! Taxation is theft after all. The NCSHP is also responsible for vast amounts of roads and two officers in different cars can cover twice as much. People hate hearing about the large budgets they already have but you take and double that and see the anger.
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Ah, that is where we disagree. You automatically jumped to the conclusion that the Troopers would have the same duties in my 2 per car system. In my dream world they would be doing less. They would not stop a vehicle going an arbitrary amount over the speed limit unless it was a danger. The local sheriff's and PD's should be responsible for their own areas. Shouldn't the Troopers be there as an aid, not the entire solution? IMO there are too many officers doing too many things. And that puts more of them in danger, and more people pissed off and distrustful.
 
CZfool68 said:
Ah, that is where we disagree. You automatically jumped to the conclusion that the Troopers would have the same duties in my 2 per car system. In my dream world they would be doing less. They would not stop a vehicle going an arbitrary amount over the speed limit unless it was a danger. The local sheriff's and PD's should be responsible for their own areas. Shouldn't the Troopers be there as an aid, not the entire solution? IMO there are too many officers doing too many things. And that puts more of them in danger, and more people pissed off and distrustful.
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Your pretty much talking about how it works now. You just don't understand the way it works most of the time and neither do I fully. But in most areas the handle all accidents on state roads not in a city, DWI's and then traffic control and tickets. Most of the troopers I personally know say the don't start writing tickets till it's a 15+ over the speed limit. Again very cost prohibitive to put two officers in the same car full time.
 
Cowboy said:
The NCSHP is also responsible for vast amounts of roads
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88,000+ miles of roads/highways, to be approximately exact. Minus some interlocal agreements with municipal agencies, but still a metric shit-ton of roads.
 
Cowboy said:
Your pretty much talking about how it works now. You just don't understand the way it works most of the time and neither do I fully. But in most areas the handle all accidents on state roads not in a city, DWI's and then traffic control and tickets. Most of the troopers I personally know say the don't start writing tickets till it's a 15+ over the speed limit. Again very cost prohibitive to put two officers in the same car full time.
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Not really because we just cut their car fleet in half. We didn't add troopers. Same amount of Troopers, half the amount of cars, maintenance, gas and insurance. Easy peasy. :D

And probably less Trooper funerals.
 
9outof10mms said:
88,000+ miles of roads/highways, to be approximately exact. Minus some interlocal agreements with municipal agencies, but still a metric shit-ton of roads.
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Yep, that are for the most part nice and safe. If there isn't a Trooper every square mile we'll get by.
 
CZfool68 said:
Yep, that are for the most part nice and safe. If there isn't a Trooper every square mile we'll get by.
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I forget the last statistic I heard...but their density is FAR LESS than 1/sq. mi. (meaning, many more square miles per trooper to cover). I know you likely said that tongue in cheek.

I found this when Googling NCSHP density: https://www.ncdps.gov/our-organization/law-enforcement/state-highway-patrol

Equates to an average of 100 miles of highway per trooper during any given shift. I'm not sure if they do house calls off of the right-of-way (i.e. burglary, assault, homicide, etc.).
 
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9outof10mms said:
I forget the last statistic I heard...but their density is FAR greater than 1/sq. mi. I know you likely said that tongue in cheek.

I found this when Googling NCSHP density: https://www.ncdps.gov/our-organization/law-enforcement/state-highway-patrol

Equates to an average of 100 miles of highway per trooper during any given shift. I'm not sure if they do house calls off of the right-of-way (i.e. burglary, assault, homicide, etc.).
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Ok, so now they have 200. They have fast cars. And the local CFF member can keep things under control until they arrive.
 
While I have encountered them solo, 4 out of 5 times that I see NCSHP on the road they are working an operation with multiple vehicles. They seem to be very effective in this mode and likely much safer as well.

I'm not going to suggest improvements, but if we're talking about utopian wish worlds there would not be a need for a SHP organization in mine because humans wouldn't be stupid, mean or careless. Dream big, right?
 
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9outof10mms said:
I forget the last statistic I heard...but their density is FAR greater than 1/sq. mi. I know you likely said that tongue in cheek.

I found this when Googling NCSHP density: https://www.ncdps.gov/our-organization/law-enforcement/state-highway-patrol

Equates to an average of 100 miles of highway per trooper during any given shift. I'm not sure if they do house calls off of the right-of-way (i.e. burglary, assault, homicide, etc.).
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NC has 48-51k square miles depending on the source. Your source says 1600 troopers. If they are all working at the same time: 48,000 / 1600 = 30 or 1 trooper per 30 square miles. If we assume only 1/3 of the troopers are working at one time, then there is 1 trooper per 90 square miles. This is a density FAR LESS than 1 per sq mile.
 
CZfool68 said:
As my Dad once said, it's your dream, make it as big as you want. And this one really isn't that tough. Unless you believe in unlimited budgets and taxation. And trooper deaths.
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Your'e the one wanting to double the expense and produce less work and talking about unlimited budgets.
 
J R Green said:
Your'e the one wanting to double the expense and produce less work and talking about unlimited budgets.
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This whole internet and reading thing isn't tough. Try keeping up. I said I want 2 officers in every car. But I want half as many cars. So in good ole math style that is the same number of officers. Zero increase. But there is a 50% DECREASE in cars, maintenance, gas and insurance.

I find it very sad that people can only think of status quo, grow government mindsets. Brains immediately go into more, more, more mode. Talk about programming. Just blind acceptance of baseline budgeting and public sector black holes.
 
CZfool68 said:
This whole internet and reading thing isn't tough. Try keeping up. I said I want 2 officers in every car. But I want half as many cars. So in good ole math style that is the same number of officers. Zero increase. But there is a 50% DECREASE in cars, maintenance, gas and insurance.

I find it very sad that people can only think of status quo, grow government mindsets. Brains immediately go into more, more, more mode. Talk about programming. Just blind acceptance of baseline budgeting and public sector black holes.
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100k riding around in one car is double 50k riding around in one car doing half the work with the same number of calls, same number of calls means covering the same amount of miles.

Math.
 
Since we have moved away from the tragedy of a trooper being killed and onto a thread of models of law enforcement, I would like to see the Maryland State Police model. Get rid of alcohol law enforcement, get rid of SBI, get rid of the state highway patrol, and put it under one umbrella organization as the state police.

It would be easier to move personal around, I do not know what the manning looks like for the SBI or for alcohol law enforcement but the highway patrol is perpetually understaffed.

Back to the tragedy, I certainly would not do it. I had a good friend, AJ Stocks, former coworker who became a trooper, died in a collison as he was responding to a car wreck.
 
J R Green said:
100k riding around in one car is double 50k riding around in one car doing half the work with the same number of calls, same number of calls means covering the same amount of miles.

Math.
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Boy you are one thick dude sometimes. :D

Calls? I don't remember calling the Trooper last time I was pulled over. I was dangerously speeding through a 45 MPH zone. The nice Trooper asked me if I knew it was a 45 zone and if I knew how fast I was going? I said it is a 45 zone and I thought I was close to the speed limit. He said I was doing 52. But he did let me off with just a warning. I've also been pulled over by a Trooper for 57 in a 55 Work Zone. He also let me off, but he was kind of a jerk. Grgeat use of their time huh? Yeah, we need more of that kind of policing.

Just revenue agents doing collections part of the time. Maybe they ought not to be doing certain things. Maybe there is too much policing.
 
Chuckman said:
Since we have moved away from the tragedy of a trooper being killed and onto a thread of models of law enforcement, I would like to see the Maryland State Police model. Get rid of alcohol law enforcement, get rid of SBI, get rid of the state highway patrol, and put it under one umbrella organization as the state police.

It would be easier to move personal around, I do not know what the manning looks like for the SBI or for alcohol law enforcement but the highway patrol is perpetually understaffed.

Back to the tragedy, I certainly would not do it. I had a good friend, AJ Stocks, former coworker who became a trooper, died in a collison as he was responding to a car wreck.
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EVERY public institution has been under funded and under staffed since I was old enough to read. And they wil continue to be so. Because there is not enough wealth or resources to satisfy those kingdoms.

Isn't it funny how since the invention of computer technology the private sector has managed to do more with less resources, but the public sector always needs more money and more people? It will never change. Sadly. Because too many peopel have a vested interest in that system.
 
CZfool68 said:
Boy you are one thick dude sometimes. :D

Calls? I don't remember calling the Trooper last time I was pulled over. I was dangerously speeding through a 45 MPH zone. The nice Trooper asked me if I knew it was a 45 zone and if I knew how fast I was going? I said it is a 45 zone and I thought I was close to the speed limit. He said I was doing 52. But he did let me off with just a warning. I've also been pulled over by a Trooper for 57 in a 55 Work Zone. He also let me off, but he was kind of a jerk. Grgeat use of their time huh? Yeah, we need more of that kind of policing.

Just revenue agents doing collections part of the time. Maybe they ought not to be doing certain things. Maybe there is too much policing.
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Yeah I'm thick, but you don't realize that they get calls to wrecks, possible drunk drivers or anything else. I guess *HP is just a chat line.
 
SC380 said:
NC has 48-51k square miles depending on the source. Your source says 1600 troopers. If they are all working at the same time: 48,000 / 1600 = 30 or 1 trooper per 30 square miles. If we assume only 1/3 of the troopers are working at one time, then there is 1 trooper per 90 square miles. This is a density FAR LESS than 1 per sq mile.
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I totally screwed that pooch with a typo. I meant to say far less (meaning a greater number of square miles). Thanks for pointing it out.
 
J R Green said:
Yeah I'm thick, but you don't realize that they get calls to wrecks, possible drunk drivers or anything else. I guess *HP is just a chat line.
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And they'll have more time to deal with the big scary things when they aren't out wasting time on petty crap. And they'll have 4 hands instead of 2! Think how helpful they will be. And they will get killed less often. Win, win.
 
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