NCFubar’s 20ga Elsie project

NiceOldDouble

NiceOldDouble

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This thread is about the rejuvenation, preservation, and repair of his LC Smith 20ga double. Field grade, 25” factory (rare length) barrels w/ full/full chokes. Curtis style forend catch.
Issues: Broken firing pin, broken top lever spring, thin barrel bluing, exterior putting on barrels, stock finish blemishes.
Objectives: return to shootable condition by repairing broken parts, refresh original stock finish and apply additive hand rubbed oil coats to protect it for future use, strike out pitting, polish to 320 grit field grade sheen, and slow rust blue barrels.

[mention]NCFubar [/mention]
 
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I’ll throw a little background in on the shotgun ...

I recently inherited it ... it was my Great Aunt’s dove gun ... I thought it was a lady’s model but Bill says it’s a regular size 20 gauge just petite. It was well used but not abused especially for a field gun over a 100 years old ... a woman’s side by side who didn’t beat it to hell. After Bill looked at it he tells me it a good old LC Smith field 20 ga ... but with a few oddities. The factory barrel length is custom and the forearm is odd Curtis type that was only used a couple years. Anyway I knew it had a few internal problems, I was pretty sure a broken firing pin, but thought the old girl was just tired and just was planning on putting her back into working order and “preserving” her for the next generation. I didn’t want a restoration ... full out re-case hardening, bluing, “refinished” stock, etc ... Bill agrees that fixing the mechanical issues and preserve the old girl like many old doubles have been over the years by old gentlemen hunters (even though I ain’t one) ... will give her a nice rejuvenation for another 100 years of life.

Turns out there’s a cult following who actually shoot these old doubles and he’s got me thinking she might actually ride again ... on sunny days only!
 
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NiceOldDouble said:
The pickling texture might mean it was a little too close to the fire while leaning up next to the mantle.

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Guess we can call it “wooden patina” ... gives her character like the scuffs and dings ... I kinda like to think how it got that way and preserving it really does keep her history rather than sanding it away.
 
All of the metal has been scrubbed, ultrasonic cleaned, lubed, and reassembled.
Wood is done: just a refreshing of the original finish with some scrubbing using lubricated 0000, and then a few applications of a nice hand rubbed oil to protect it in the future. This was not a “refinish”, and the checkering is original.
The grip cap was missing a piece, so Acraglass Gel stained black was used to build up the break location, and it was shaped back to how it should be.

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Barrel polished lengthwise to 320 grit after all of the dents are raised, and pitting is struck out.

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Then the barrels are wet sanded at 320 with cutting oil to somewhat mute the shine, and provide an appropriate American field grade surface for the rusting process to adhere to. English guns were polished to a brighter sheen, which is a weaker finish, but it fit the culture which was to “black” the barrels more often. The rougher the surface, the more surface area there is, so the rust attaches better.

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The barrels are now starting to rust after applying undiluted Laurel Mtn. Forge Barrel Brown solution. The first application rusts for 4 hours, and then a second application occurs. This primes the barrels. After converting the primer rust to black oxide, the cycles will be rust, steam, card, rust, steam, card and so on until the right depth of bluing is present.

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I rust barrels in an old school locker with a tiny crock pot at the bottom.

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The barrel has been given 4 hours in the damp cabinet for the primer coat to take hold.

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Now a second coat of solution is wiped on with cotton makeup rounds, and immediately starts to turn green. The barrel will rust over night in the cabinet, but with the crock pot turned off so it doesn’t rust too much. In the morning the barrels will be bright orange, and will be steamed for 10 minutes to convert the bad orange rust to good black rust.

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I kinda hate we didn’t think to take a “before” picture. She was not real rough especially for a 102 year old well used field gun but need some specialized TLC. My Great Aunt hunted dove and quail with my Great Uncle every now and then. I also have his Remington Damascus barreled 12 ga double but it was far more used and I just can’t do another double and it is in far more “used” condition.
 
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After 8 hours of rusting.

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After steaming for 12 minutes.

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After carding (aka scratching) with a 720rpm soft wire wheel in a drill press.

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Those steps will happen probably 4 more times. Depends on the barrel.
 
NCFubar said:
My Great Aunt hunted dove and quail with my Great Uncle every now and then. I also have his Remington Damascus barreled 12 ga double but it was far more used and I just can’t do another double and it is in far more “used” condition.
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I’ve done some Remington damascus guns as well. This is from a Colt model 1893, which would be similar to the Remington barrels, depending on the grade of the Remington. And yes, damascus guns can and should be shot as long as the barrels are sound.

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Final rusting pass done, and the barrel was carded with a wire wheel. Then you gently (light finger tip pressure) scrub the barrel under hot water with a slurry of baking soda. This cards further, and also neutralizes the rusting process further so you don’t get “after rust”. If you don’t neutralize, the barrel can rust more even if coated with RIG or oil.
Here is the barrel after washing, baking soda, drying. No oil or grease in the barrel.

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After the above step, you liberally coat the barrel with RIG, RemOil, Balistol, whatever you like, and hang it up to cure for 24 hours.

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After the curing is done, wipe it down. Some black oxide rust did not adhere will come off as you wipe, and later as you shoot the gun and barrels heat up. Small particulars of black oxide will be in the pores and will weep out over time. Normal.
 
Exactly what we discussed ... refreshing and preserving the old girl. I wanted to try and leave her “history” from when my Great Aunt (and I’m pretty sure sometimes my Great Uncle too) took to the field. The better thing is I won’t be scared to take her out and take a few dove ... 2nd season starts in a few weeks.

Anyway I think I got me a proper gentleman’s double ... now I just gotta become a proper gentleman.
 
Looks even better in person! I am so glad I didn’t mess with it myself ... I might be able to “work on” modern stuff and mil-surp stuff ... but this type firearm requires a gunsmith with skills and I sure as hell see now that ain’t me I truly see I’m a hack. No telling what I’d have broke or boogered up ... and no way would I have had the knowledge on how to handle the blueing. If you have an old double (or see one on the rack at your LGS that catches your eye) I highly recommend at least letting Bill go thru it for function and also do a refresh and preserve TLC to it. This little gun may well cost me a lot in the future ... she’s jumped up to the top of my favorites ... even over some other treasures to me.

Thank you Bill ...
 
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Wow nice work. So I have always heard refinishing a gun hurts its value. To what extent is that true with these old doubles?

I have my grandfathers old hammer fired double and this really makes me want to show it some TLC.
 
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chrishf12 said:
Wow nice work. So I have always heard refinishing a gun hurts its value. To what extent is that true with these old doubles?

I have my grandfathers old hammer fired double and this really makes me want to show it some TLC.
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Collector guns with strong remaining original finishes should be left alone. But if a gun is vulnerable because of a lack of protective finishes, and prior neglect can be reversed, I believe that some work should be done. Rebluing barrels, for example, is a common task that some see as semi-regular maintenance. Even barrels that look pretty good have tiny pits under the blueing. Years of handling, grease, oil, and grime will fill in these pits to where you can’t really see them. Polish the barrel back to white and you will often see a surprising amount. Unattended shallow tiny pits grow to deeper pits, and those will eventually ruin a barrel.

Similarly, the wood should be protected. Either refresh the original finish, or strip and refinish with period correct methods if the wood is really bad. Also, when a stock head is full of decades of oil it becomes soft. Soft stock heads break. When I do a full refinish I leech out the oil in the stock and reinforce it in order to try and prevent future breakage.

Lastly, color casing is a fiercely debated topic. Recoloring is risky, but sometimes appropriate. Depends on the gun.
 
Here's my L. C. 16 gauge not a queen but a good tight shooter. Bought it good price wouldn't fire replaced broken collector, shimmed plate in forearm. Parts are fairly easy to find from gun parts inc. image.jpegimage.jpeg
 
Hoss said:
Not sure if I should have posted here. Not trying to take away from original post, bear with me I'm a senior citizen trying to get used to this way of communicating.
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Oh IT belongs here ... yours looks a lot like mine in grade and year ... as well as pre-preservation condition. I‘d suggest Bill if you want to “preserve” (not restore!) that 16 gauge. A nice re-blueing of the barrels is actually an understood practice with old doubles and many aficionados do consider it semi-routine maintenance. I spoke with a couple LC Smith Collector Association members who said it‘s better than letting micro-pitting grow and many English as well as American sportsmen have even re-blued some barrels more than once especially when these doubles are still seeing use.
 
Some great step by step explaining and pictures in this thread. That old LC Smith is looking good.
 
Mine was made in 1945 has excellent bores and lever is slightly to the right. I enjoy fixing old firearms. Machinist by trade still working not hunting much anymore. Starting to spend more time on the Internet when off work.
 
This thread has me thinking about my Dad's ole double. It's a Baker Batava Special. Boy, if it could be made to look like "NCFubar’s 20ga Elsie project"?
 
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