Need 1911 sights

Lafayette Gregory

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1911 sights
« on: Today at 05:06:38 PM »

I have been practising with my Rock Island MS series 1911. Finally become comfortable with this pistol and have learned acceptable accuracy enough to carry it. Oversized grips have helped. At first I thought these things were way to large but finally settled in to this style. Got about 600rds down the pipe and she has smoothed out quite well. At least I have knocked the new off her. No FTF or any other issue over the last few boxes of ammo.

The sights are the standard 1911 sights, black on black and they suck! If I needed this weapon at night I would be guessing where the lead would end up. Do you guys with experience with the 1911 have any suggestions as to good replacement sights? I looked at some low profile truglo sights with fiber optic and tritium. These looked nice at about $129.00, I like the idea when the tritium weakens I would still have the fiber optic. But with little experience with the 1911 - have not carried one in 20 years - what do y'all suggest for replacement sights. Thanks for any wisdom bestowed upon me.
 
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1911 sights
« on: Today at 05:06:38 PM »

I have been practising with my Rock Island MS series 1911. Finally become comfortable with this pistol and have learned acceptable accuracy enough to carry it. Oversized grips have helped. At first I thought these things were way to large but finally settled in to this style. Got about 600rds down the pipe and she has smoothed out quite well. At least I have knocked the new off her. No FTF or any other issue over the last few boxes of ammo.

The sights are the standard 1911 sights, black on black and they suck! If I needed this weapon at night I would be guessing where the lead would end up. Do you guys with experience with the 1911 have any suggestions as to good replacement sights? I looked at some low profile truglo sights with fiber optic and tritium. These looked nice at about $129.00, I like the idea when the tritium weakens I would still have the fiber optic. But with little experience with the 1911 - have not carried one in 20 years - what do y'all suggest for replacement sights. Thanks for any wisdom bestowed upon me.

A lot of people like a plain black rear and a FO front. Dawson makes some good stuff. Those are good if it is light or you have a flashlight. I like the Heinie Straight 8's too. I am much better with those than the 3 dots or 3 dot night sights.
 
Exactly what model do you have? What grooves you haves kinda dictates what direction you go.
 
Post up which RIA you have. I'm not seeing an MS series, unless that means MilSpec and you're referring to their GI series.
 
Exactly what model do you have? What grooves you haves kinda dictates what direction you go.
Its a 1911A1 Ms series. Staked front sight. Dovetail rear. No longer offered on their web site. This gun was a bargain gun last year. They still have the MS series but they are much nicer now with good sights and other improvements.
 
Its a 1911A1 Ms series. Staked front sight. Dovetail rear. No longer offered on their web site. This gun was a bargain gun last year. They still have the MS series but they are much nicer now with good sights and other improvements.
You will be limited due to the staked front sight. I had a Colt Govt set up like yours. I finally sent the slide off to Novaks to have dovetails cut and sights installed. Two week turnaround. I think I was in for $275 all told. I did a fiber front and black adjustable rear. If I did it again I'd have a U-Notch rear sight installed.
 
I have never been in a gunfight in the dark with another human but have done a fair amount of very legal night hunting (coons) with a flashlight and open iron sights on a 22 rifle. I never had any problem getting the sights lined up on a coon that was illuminated even just a little. I certainly am not going to blaze away at a coon in the dark that I can not see. That goes X10 for shooting at a human in the dark that I can not see to identify. I want to have some light on the maggot to be sure he is a maggot before blowing him away. I do have several pistols that came with night sights, but the faint glow does not seem to be very noticeable when looking over them at a target illuminated by a flashlight, and searching for the glowing dots would seem to be a distraction as well as a waste of very valuable time. I would gladly trade those night sights for a descent flashlight.

I actually like the low and small old style military sights for most of my shooting. I also prefer the small, low, and simple fixed sights on revolvers to the larger and higher adjustable sights. They just work better for me in most instances. For slow target shooting I do like front and rear sights that are big, square, and black. Some of the sights that have come on handguns I have bought have just been to busy to the point of distraction for my old eyes.

Your experience may very well not be the same as mine, and this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
 
Trijicon makes a night sight set for GI style 1911 sights. Minimalist sights are best for staked on, the larger the front gets the more likely it is to loosen.

I had a local smith, Aguilla Gun Works, cut my GI Springfield and slide some Warrens Tacticals in, the labor/milling was very reasonable, pretty sure under $100, dropped off one week with my sights, picked up the next.
I used to like wide U notches and was in the process of putting Warrens on everything, but I've come to learn I get sloppy with them in a hurry and less light around the front is not really slower. The Warrens also like to rust.
Dawsons are nice, but also a bit rust prone.
Ameriglo makes some nice SD style sights, haven't seen any rust on them yet.
 
You won't gain anything at night or in low light with fiber optic front and a different plain black rear over your current set of plain black sights.

Get night sights (front and rear) and a flash light and learn where each has its advantages...they aren't mutually exclusive. If the tritium dims, get new sights...the fiber optic will still be virtually useless in low light/dark conditions once the tritium dims.

You should get 10+ years from night sights before they are too dim to use.
 
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We shoot at night here a good bit. In the dark, with and without range lights on. Inside 10 yards [where you will likely be using it] night sights are not needed. You can spend your money any way you wish, but this particular product is not needed for a person who will dedicate themselves to being able to shoot in the dark. I will Not debate this. Just show up here and we can prove it without a doubt. Simple.
Spend 15 minutes a day on handgun "presentation", every day.
 
We shoot at night here a good bit. In the dark, with and without range lights on. Inside 10 yards [where you will likely be using it] night sights are not needed. You can spend your money any way you wish, but this particular product is not needed for a person who will dedicate themselves to being able to shoot in the dark. I will Not debate this. Just show up here and we can prove it without a doubt. Simple.
Spend 15 minutes a day on handgun "presentation", every day.

Any of you guys that have shot the idpa night match, can attest what an eye opener it is,I think Wilkesboro offers two a year if you haven't shot one and one is offered near you, you should try to attend ,of all the 1911s I own I think two have night sights, and they came that way from the factory, plus I never carry them.
The defender and the ria cs that seem to be my regular edc as of late have no sight enhancement of any kind,
The seven yards that you're most likely to have an armed encounter will be done with point shooting anyway,
I was in the process of typing this when b.o.b. responded with the same point I was going to make so I'll stop here.
I will add that that I read a statistic that someone who trains regularly with a firearm is only 10 percent more likely to come out on top in an armed encounter than a complete novice. My self I prefer to be in that ten percent so I think spending the money on practice ammo or training will give you a better edge than the sights
 
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We shoot with "handhelds only" for the H20 IDPA night match. All you can see is the shadow of your front sight.

We had a night segment in the Hackathorn/Vickers class also. We'd shine our handhelds on an IDPA target 7 yards away, shut off the light, then had to make ten head shots in near total darkness. All I had was a fiber front sight and blacked out rear and put all the head shots on paper.
 
We shoot with "handhelds only" for the H20 IDPA night match. All you can see is the shadow of your front sight.

We had a night segment in the Hackathorn/Vickers class also. We'd shine our handhelds on an IDPA target 7 yards away, shut off the light, then had to make ten head shots in near total darkness. All I had was a fiber front sight and blacked out rear and put all the head shots on paper.
Well Of Course you did. You sought out the best instruction, and then you practiced what they said to do. Hence, your results are the same as we have here. CQB marksmanship requires dedication. After a while you see that you can't actually Accessorize yourself to the level you are trying to achieve. It takes work.
 
All of this is good info and I agree, you may be able to get by without any sights at all.

But what I found is the $10 average cost per year for night sights was well worth not being limited to point shooting, 7-10 yard max range engagement, hoping my target sits still long enough to get shot in the face 10 times, and always having to use my light to aim. Add to that the 90 hours a year (15 mins per day) I'd apparently need to work around not having night sights and I am way ahead of the game. What I found is I am equally fast and get far more reliable hits past 6-10 feet using the sights vs point shooting during the day. Ironically, using the sights is equally beneficial in low light. What I learned through even better instruction is that given two equal shooters, the properly accessorized shooter will have an advantage. Common sense says if it only costs $10 per year extra to have an advantage in some common/likely situations...it is foolish for me to argue against it.

It is your life/money...do what you want.
 
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. Add to that the 90 hours a year (15 mins per day) I'd apparently need to work around not having night sights
Sight bloom, where the retina( in dark environment especially) is overloaded with light is gonna kick in at the first flash from the muzzle(yours or his) and oops there goes your night vision,leaving it difficult to pick up your sights, forcing you to resort to point shooting, I'm guessing thats when you'll realize you should have spent the extra 15 minutes,
 
Sight bloom, where the retina( in dark environment especially) is overloaded with light is gonna kick in at the first flash from the muzzle(yours or his) and oops there goes your night vision,leaving it difficult to pick up your sights, forcing you to resort to point shooting, I'm guessing thats when you'll realize you should have spent the extra 15 minutes,
That was an eye opener in our night segment of the class I referenced. First muzzle flash and everything changes. We were definitely point shooting at that point.
 
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Sight bloom, where the retina( in dark environment especially) is overloaded with light is gonna kick in at the first flash from the muzzle(yours or his) and oops there goes your night vision,leaving it difficult to pick up your sights, forcing you to resort to point shooting, I'm guessing thats when you'll realize you should have spent the extra 15 minutes,

If I find myself forced to point shoot my way out of a space so dark that the muzzle flash is blinding me then I'll realize I shouldn't have walked in there without a flashlight. The flashlight resolves the muzzle flash issue but more importantly ensures you will be able to see the sights and the target.

Here are two videos where they shoot in very low light. In the first, he uses the muzzle flash to see the sights (near the end of the video). In the second, they shoot 10 shots using the night sights for all 10. Neither resort to point shooting due to muzzle flash.




The muzzle flash from most handguns will not blind you if there is enough ambient light to see your target and that is when you'd be using night sights coincidentally.
 
But earlier you stated you didn't want to practice presentation, the 90 hrs a year was a of time,when you could simply nuy a gadget
That you didn't want to use a flashlight for aiming
I think the point we where arguing that you could forgo training and and just buy a gadget . And if you get to pick where your armed encounter takes place then I'm glad for you, Ive shot night matches where there was plenty of ambient light, and then I've shot night matches where you couldn't see your hand in front of your face and the muzzle flash seriously screwed with your vision. I like Paul Harrell, ex marine, ex army fire arms instructor, been involved in an armed encounter that resulted in a fatality, he was charged and aquited,that being said what he was demonstrating was how to train for a night engagement not gadget your way out of a night encounter.you notice that he practiceing presentation aimimg before the drill at night begins
It sound like the premise of you argument rest on the light conditions being perfect
The muzzle flash from most handguns will not blind you if there is enough ambient ligh
When you say most could you identify the ones which will and which ones wont
And I'm sure @BatteryOaksBilly offer still stands
And lastly if when your lizard brain takes over during an encounter, day, night whenever at 21 feet and in everything is going to devolve into to point shooting
 
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But earlier you stated you didn't want to practice presentation, the 90 hrs a year was a of time,when you could simply nuy a gadget
I don't see the need to spend 90 hours a year perfecting my 10 yard point shooting when I could use two gadgets that I am already trained on to be much more effective well out to 25 yards or more. Aimed fire has been proven to be more accurate than point shooting. Accuracy is what ends gun fights. Smarter people than I have proven to me that point shooting should be a last resort.
That you didn't want to use a flashlight for aiming.
wrong, read again - I don't want to "ALWAYS" have to use my light to aim.
And if you get to pick where your armed encounter takes place then I'm glad for you,
wrong, read again - I get to pick whether I bring my flashlight or not.
Ive shot night matches where there was plenty of ambient light, and then I've shot night matches where you couldn't see your hand in front of your face and the muzzle flash seriously screwed with your vision.
Go practice with a light in similar conditions and see if that helps you. If it does, plan to use one. If you aren't allowed to use a light at the match remember that the match is a game.
I like Paul Harrell, ex marine, ex army fire arms instructor, been involved in an armed encounter that resulted in a fatality, he was charged and aquited,that being said what he was demonstrating was how to train for a night engagement not gadget your way out of a night encounter.
He wasn't being blinded by muzzle flash...he could use the muzzle flash to use the sights...that was the point.
I think the point we where arguing that you could forgo training and and just buy a gadget .
Wrong, read again - I specifically suggested the OP "learn where each has its advantages" referring to flashlights and night sights. That doesn't sound like "buy one gadget and done" to me.
It sound like the premise of you argument rest on the light conditions being perfect.
Wrong, read again - my premise is that there are conditions where night sights give you an advantage and that your claim about muzzle flash blindness is overblown.
When you say most could you identify the ones which will and which ones want
And I'm sure @BatteryOaksBilly offer still stands
Paul Harrel had good luck with a 38 super. 9mm, 40, and .45 work for me. I don't recommend a 357 snubbie. I suggest you take Billy up on his offer as I am certain he has MUCH to share and seems to be very generous with his time and property. If I am fortunate enough to meet him myself, we can do point shooting vs unnecessary gadgets for fun.
 
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Accuracy is what ends gun fights. Smarter people than I have proven to me that point shooting should be a last resort.
Wrong, since I you like using that word .
It's mostly dumb luck that ends gun fight, do you think all the street thugs that kill cops are at the range practicing their skills, statistic show someone who practices regularly only has a 10 percent better chance in a gun fight than a novice.
wrong, read again - I don't want to "ALWAYS" have to use my light to aim
Splitting hairs on this one.
wrong, read again - I get to pick whether I bring my flashlight or not.
You be surprised at what people forget when under pressure ,or mister Murphy
Steps in .
f you aren't allowed to use a light at the match remember that the match is a game.
So I'm guessing the practice sessions you set up in optimal conditions that the targets shoot back?
At this point I'll ask do you participate in any of the shooting sports that give you a chance to run a gun under pressure.
He wasn't being blinded by muzzle flash...he could use the muzzle flash to use the sights...that was the point.
But neither does he reply hey this muzzle flash isn't affecting me at all , Mr Harrell was a firearms instructor in the military in I'm guessing he could have done that from mere muscle memory wearing a blindfold. Did you say something about you target standing still cause in the second video I'm pretty sure that targets standing still .and it's easy to post up videos please post up one of your self duplicating the feat , and it would support your point
Come out and shoot a night match on a dark night with no ambient light Then tell me the the muzzle flash doesn't affect your vision.
Paul Harrel had good luck with a 38 super. 9mm, 40, and .45 work for me. I don't recommend a 357 snubbie. I suggest you take Billy up on his offer as I am certain he has MUCH to share and seems to be very generous with his time and property. If I am fortunate enough to meet him myself, we can do point shooting vs unnecessary gadgets for fun.
And again I state Mr harrels skill level may makes it look easy for him but may be different for you.
Why should I drive out to Billys he and I seem to agree on fundamentals over gadgets, though I would I would like to see some of those fancy engraved revolver s he's always posting up close.
Lastly nterviews with people involved in gunfights show that hardly any of them remember seeing their sights the exception to this is swat officers or soldiers where suprise doesn't play a part in the shooting
Lizard brain
Even our beloved, everybody bleeds before anybody dies goes out the window understress
Lizard brain
That why depending on fundamentals not gadgets is the only thing that you can depend on ,to adamantly state that you're not going to point shoot is statisticly proven to be wrong. I hope you never have to find out good night and good luck
 
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One last comment from this side and then I'll just move on. I never, Never, NEVER said ONE word about POINT SHOOTING. I said to practice PRESENTATION. This hones the draw-stance-flash site picture we all hope to get to. The flash site picture is the outline of your firearm on the target.
The best way to see if you are coming along at this is to line up with your target, as you draw your gun when properly Presented, CLOSE your eyes and fire. Of course this is good inside 7, better at 5, even better at spitting distance. You know, where you will be most apt to have to defend yourself. These distances are defendable in practice and in court.
Hitting outside 10 yards is Big fun. 25 better we shoot handguns here out to 300. While Big fun it doesn't help us much in our daily problems. We have an ATM set up here and a car permanently. A I have said before..if you want to jump out of a window on a rope firing full auto with your hair on fire..we can't help. If you drive, go to ATMs, Big Box stores, Malls and movies. We can let you experience what MIGHT never happen. But if it does you will not be learning on the job.
2 last things..1st I deeply apologize to the OP for this getting this far off his question. 2nd and this should matter not one whit to anybody, All my carry guns have black rears and Bright Orange fronts.
I wish all of you could be here today. Before the others start coming in, as always, all of you are welcome. And remember..we must all seek our own salvation with decisions on life.
 
Only on CFF cam a bunch of people turn a 'I need new sights' discussion into a you are doing it wrong pissing match.

OP, you can also send a slide to Heinie for sight installs. Their pricing wasn't too crazy when I looked.
 
My apologies to the op also,I don't like it when people crap in my threads and here I am basically doing the same in yours, agan my sincerest apologies
And @BatteryOaksBilly I find your, we must all seek our own salvation one of the most applicable and sensible sayings that I've heard.
Pretty sure it found it's way into my vocabulary
 
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