New to long range/precision shooting...School me

ColdBore116

ColdBore116

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I have a vanilla Savage 111 that I've had as my "long range" rifle for a few years (Pics in my Appraisal post). I'm considering switching it out for a more respectable rifle with more aftermarket options. It's chambered in 30-06 which doesn't have a bad kick, but it's enough to make me stop shooting after about 10 rounds with just a t-shirt. I'm considering a Remington 700 in 308, but recently I've heard about Tikka's.

So, inform me about this type of shooting and what type of stuff I should be looking at. I'd like to stay around $1000, but I could go a bit higher.

- I've read that it's better to build from the ground up if you're going to end up replacing most of the parts anyway, is this true?
- Is the 308 a good round for this, all things considered? I'm talking price per round, recoil management, ammo diversity, bullet trajectory, accuracy at a distance? Is there a better option?

I know this is a lot, but I do plenty of research before dropping cash on a new piece of steel. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
308 is an outstanding round for moderately long range shooting. Depending on how long "long range" is, you may consider other calibers. Out to 600-800 yards though, the 308 is just fine.

You can build a gun from the action up if you want, but a heavy barreled Savage or Remington with a stock and trigger upgrade, and good glass will perform just fine for most shooters. Its easy to fall into the "diminishing returns" trap with precision rifles, where it may cost you another $1000 in upgrades and tuning to shrink the group by another 1/10 of an inch. I used to dabble a bit in benchrest, and a benchrest rifle can easily become "a hole at the range that you dump money into" if you let it.

If you want to get into precision rifle shooting, I recommend researching handloading, and start rolling your own. You can tailor your ammo to your specific rifle, and find what it shoots best. That will give you the most consistent, accurate results.

Start taking notes when you shoot. Temp and wind, and write down what ammo you were shooting, along with how it performed on target. Look for trends, and use them to improve your shooting.

Starting with a good rifle is important, but even more important is practice. Get out and shoot. A lot.
 
Welcome to the forum.
 
I'd skip 308 and jump over to something in the 6-6.5 range. Plenty of good factory options for 6.5 Creedmoor, and federal has the gold medal 260 Remington out now too.

I shoot both a 6 Creedmoor and 260 rem, but will probably have an upper in 6.5 Creedmoor soon too just to have some more factory loaded ammo options just in case.

Recoil management and perceived recoil is all relative, but the ones above are a pleasure to shoot all day even while toting them around all day.

Custom rifles are great, but definitely not required to play the game. Get you a good mount and glass and you will have a much better experience overall.
 
My only concern with the 6.5 Creedmoor is that its known to be a bit of a barrel burner. I've known 308 barrels to keep good accuracy anywhere from 5k to 10k rounds, but I've heard of 6.5's starting to drop off in as few as 2-3k.
 
RedneckFur said:
My only concern with the 6.5 Creedmoor is that its known to be a bit of a barrel burner. I've known 308 barrels to keep good accuracy anywhere from 5k to 10k rounds, but I've heard of 6.5's starting to drop off in as few as 2-3k.
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I concur. I've shot a 308 barrel that's been shot out, but it was in the neighborhood of closer to 25k rounds and it was still a hammer. Believe it or not it was even a Savage. LOL

I consider barrels to be consumables, plus realistically how many people are actually going to shoot 2500 rounds over the life of the rifle and not be changing anything?

I also fully expect to only get 2k out of mine (6 Creedmoor) if all goes swimmingly...
 
A box stock Rem 700 SPS or 5R in 308 will get you to 1000yds no problem. You will also need a scope with 100mins internal elevation adjustment or a 20MOA scope base and a scope with 70mins elevation adjustment. Some Federal Gold Metal Match or Black Hills ammo and you are good to go. A Harris bipod or some sort of front rest and rear bag would be handy as well. Good luck!
 
For getting started 308 is a great round. Will easily touch 1000 yards with the right set up and load. Is great for learning holds and wind calls. If you learn how to shoot a 308 moving to a "cheater" round like 6.5 or 6mm is easy. Also if you want to simulate 308 get a good 22 and shoot it at 300 yards. Ballistics are almost the same.
 
I’d encourage you to take your Savage 111 30-06, buy a case of match ammo, put a decent glass on it with 20 MOA mount – then take a class such as Bang-Steel in Wytheville, VA. I learned more in his class than I ever thought I would. There were guys shooting factory hunting rifles with normal profile barrels (not bull barrels) and hitting 1000+ 18” targets in no time. Guys even take .243’s up there with much success. Then, take that knowledge and “upgrade” your set-up if you still feel the need. People been making long range shot way before bull barrels, precision 5R rifiling, bedding stock, match grade triggers, etc ever existed. The only issue with normal profile barrels at this class was you would need to let them cool a few minutes after 10 or so consecutive shots, the guys with heavy profile barrels could keep shooting.



In other words – The shooter, the ammo, the scope, all properly working are more important than the rifle itself..at least in my opinion for long range – when you get into “precision” that’s a whole nother subject.

I shoot a Factory Savage 10T .308 with a Nikon Buckmaster Scope - works for my needs plenty good



Brannon
 
TSConver said:
For getting started 308 is a great round. Will easily touch 1000 yards with the right set up and load. Is great for learning holds and wind calls. If you learn how to shoot a 308 moving to a "cheater" round like 6.5 or 6mm is easy. Also if you want to simulate 308 get a good 22 and shoot it at 300 yards. Ballistics are almost the same.
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Exactly why I'm looking forward to picking up one of these after they release at shot show...

shin1805.jpg
 
RedneckFur said:
My only concern with the 6.5 Creedmoor is that its known to be a bit of a barrel burner. I've known 308 barrels to keep good accuracy anywhere from 5k to 10k rounds, but I've heard of 6.5's starting to drop off in as few as 2-3k.
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Hm, that's something to consider. Although, I don't think I'll be putting 2k through it anytime soon.
 
TSConver said:
For getting started 308 is a great round. Will easily touch 1000 yards with the right set up and load. Is great for learning holds and wind calls. If you learn how to shoot a 308 moving to a "cheater" round like 6.5 or 6mm is easy. Also if you want to simulate 308 get a good 22 and shoot it at 300 yards. Ballistics are almost the same.
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I might just have to break out my 597 and try that theory out. I definitely want to get to the point where I know my rifle well enough to compensate for windage/elevation/etc.
 
If that 30-06 is a heavy barrel get a different brake and better stock. That'll make it more manageable and fun to shoot. @mckenziedrums has a savage in 30-06 that is a hammer and with the suppressor on feels stupid soft shooting 220gr smk's at 3k fps.
 
Don't underestimate the value of having a very good, and properly installed/timed muzzle brake. It may seem costly to buy a good one, but when you have almost zero recoil, can maintain the target in your scope after the shot and can see and spot your own misses, you will realize that having a good brake is a good investment.
 
ColdBore116 said:
What brake would you recommend? I'm open to a new one if it will do better, mine doesn't feel anywhere near a .223.
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Yours probably doesn't have a 30" long 1" thick barrel either ;) The sheer weight of mine cuts the recoil immensely and I typically shoot it with a harvester suppressor attached.
 
There's only two benefits to 308:

(a) barrel life - you'll get 5,000 - 8,000+ rounds barrel life with a 308. You'll only get 3,000 - 3,500 with a 6.5CM. What does this mean for most people, nothing. A dude who just shoots informally will go years before they have to worry about shooting out a barrel on a 6.5CM. If you are a moderate competition shooter, you'll go two years before you need to swap out the barrel. If you are heavily into the PRS or other types of shooting, you'll probably burn out a barrel a year. Note however, none of this really matters for guys who are into shooting long range. They rather have the ballistics of a 6.5CM then the barrel life of a 308 any day of the week.

(b) Ammunition - There is a wider range of match ammunition available for 308. Is this a big deal? No. Nobody who is a serious precision rifle shooter goes into a Walmart or some county bumpkin hardware store and say "sir, show me your finest match ammunition." Everyone either buys ammo online or from the major retailers - these places have more than enough 6.5CM match ammo to satisfy most shooters. Generally speaking, 6.5CM match ammo is also about $5-$10 cheaper per box of 20 than 308.

Moral of the story, because the two benefits are so marginal compared to the ballistic advantages of 6.5CM, people have been migrating to the caliber in droves. 6.5CM is a good blend of ballistics, logistical support, and barrel life. It falls right in the middle of the spectrum between the 308 and 6mm's.

If you reload, then go with 6.5 If you want to take something off the shelf and shoot, and generally speaking would be happy with factory match ammo, then 308 can't be beat.
 
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patina said:
Exactly why I'm looking forward to picking up one of these after they release at shot show...

shin1805.jpg
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There is a preorder now going on at whitakerguns.com. Expected delivery dates in April. The price is $419 I think.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
My bad, I didn’t get to the end of thread before I went ahead and posted the above. I see now, someone already beat me to it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RedneckFur said:
My only concern with the 6.5 Creedmoor is that its known to be a bit of a barrel burner. I've known 308 barrels to keep good accuracy anywhere from 5k to 10k rounds, but I've heard of 6.5's starting to drop off in as few as 2-3k.
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It's like a car. 100,000 miles on the highway is totally different than city drive. A hunting rifle (slow rate of fire) compare to a competition hammering 10+ shots in 90 seconds is a lot of heat. Point being heat is what kills the barrels. The smaller calibers loose velocity but still accurate, then after few 100 rounds later is when all hell break looks with accuracy.

I'm fan of both but didn't want the OP to be nervous about round count. It's also because of the size of the fire column behind a 6/6.6mm bullet vs a 7.62. The difference in fire column is like water hose running and then putting your thumb over it.

Can't go wrong with a .308 or a 6.5 creedmoor. .308 will allow you to learn more about this little thing we call wind.
 
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I suggest u take a two day class at bang steel. Dan newberry is a genius and will get u started out on the right foot give him a call u will even help u pick out the setup to meet your needs.
 
fellow named ross over at snipers hide makes killer brakes ... 3 port.. for like $35.. ive got several of them.. just get someone to thread & fit...
and Bergara's are pretty sweet & pretty reasonable...

B-14_HMR.jpg
 
jimmyjames8 said:
A box stock Rem 700 SPS or 5R in 308 will get you to 1000yds no problem. You will also need a scope with 100mins internal elevation adjustment or a 20MOA scope base and a scope with 70mins elevation adjustment. Some Federal Gold Metal Match or Black Hills ammo and you are good to go. A Harris bipod or some sort of front rest and rear bag would be handy as well. Good luck!
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Yeah all of my rental SPS Varmints out of the box with a Viper PST on them, I get a 2-3 rd zero. 4th or 5th shot is on my 1,000yd plate. Arrows don't make the Indian. I beat 90% of the field in a match with my .308
 
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ColdBore116 said:
Is the 308 a good round for this, all things considered? I'm talking price per round, recoil management, ammo diversity, bullet trajectory, accuracy at a distance? Is there a better option?
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You may want to consider picking up a Thompson Center Compass , .308 , model number 10074.

It has 22” barrel, 5R rifling, threaded, 1:12 twist, 60 degree 3 Lug bolt. General rule is a 1:12 barrel is good to 168gr.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is also available in the Compass line and is model number 11703.

Currently there is a $75 rebate on the Compass line till the end of the month, April.

If one were to shop it right, final cost would be around 2 ~ 2 & quarter.

It comes with Weaver mount~s but one can install a pic rail to accept a larger range of rings as Weaver has smaller slots than Picatinny.

Out of the box it shoots on Par with my Savage 24” Bull Barrel , 1:11 twist.

A shooting acquaintance picked one up and installed a brake that was recommended to him and he says his rig predominantly likes178gr.

I take a different approach to muzzle devices as I will get a base line of what it likes with a bare barrel then add / try different brakes. Yes this means I have a box of brakes, just the way it goes.

Reportedly there is an Alco 168gr 308 projectile available that mirrors the trajectory of a 300 Winnie.

That is highlighted in the following vid:


Safe Shooting
 
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