Permit required?!
- Thread starter Diablos
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Dale Gribble
Can't starve us out; Can't make us run
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I finished OUR basement, in OUR house, that WE work to pay for, including the yearly property taxes.
The thought of asking for or paying for permission to do work on what is mine never crossed my mind.
There's a few other renovations/remodeling that I plan to do and I have no inclination to ask "May I?" for that sh*t, either.
The thought of asking for or paying for permission to do work on what is mine never crossed my mind.
There's a few other renovations/remodeling that I plan to do and I have no inclination to ask "May I?" for that sh*t, either.
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OP
I didn't pull any permits for any past work I've done, and I wouldn't bother to here either if I wasn't looking 5yrs or so down the road to a dixie homecoming.
NCLivingBrit
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Repeat after me: We are free.
In our minds.
Mad Dawg
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Life is all about decisions that we make. Every decision that is made has consequences. It appears to me that you've made your decision. I hope that you are prepared for and willing to accept the consequences of those decisions.
My preaching to you is not without merit. I am currently going through the State licensing program to become a Code Enforcement Official, currently working on getting the plumbing certification. I take the intent of the building codes to "safeguard life, health, property and public welfare" very seriously, as would anyone else involved in public safety. The codes are there for your protection and the protection of others, and not to be intrusive on your freedoms or "thieve" you out of a few $'s as you state.
This will be my last post in this thread. Diablos, I wish you the best of luck in life, health and to your property.
OP
If it was only about safety, permits wouldn't be on a sliding scale. However, we can see the crown has decided to interject thievery into the process.
And I understand, you uphold the licensure process the crown has oulined. A man should have to supplicate himself before the throne before he is allowed to earn a living.
Ikarus1
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You should take it very seriously, as in if your plumbing malfunctions you could spew waste into public waters.....
You know, because it never happens otherwise esp by municipal offenders on a YUGE scale:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...g-up-wastewater-spill-in-north-carolina-river
http://www.fox46charlotte.com/news/...of-wastewater-spills-into-charlotte-tributary
http://www.wect.com/story/15258524/over-70000-gallons-of-wastewater-spills-into-carolina-beach-lake
http://myfox8.com/2015/12/31/more-t...-spills-in-davidson-county-after-heavy-rains/
You might want to look higher up on the food chain for colossal plumbing offenders.
Seems like a better use of tax dollars is fixing the broken problem on their end before extorting homeowners and stealing from them.
"Do as a I say, not do as I do"
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Always remember that the Building Codes are the MINIMUM required.
When someone invents something "new and improved" for YOUR safety then the .gov gets involved and makes it MANDATORY to be installed if you touch anything old that's been there forever! (Also helps make the inventor rich since you now HAVE to buy his product). We had our kitchen remodeled a couple of years ago. House was built in 1965. The new kitchen has another half-dozen required GFCI protected outlets, new vent fan and we even had to change our smoke detector to a combo carbon-monoxide/smoke detector which was down the hall in front of the bedrooms. Not complaining since we needed more outlets, but I thought the smoke detector thing was a bit much since we have a whole house alarm system w/ smoke detectors and rate-of-rise heat detectors as well as break-in detectors.
When someone invents something "new and improved" for YOUR safety then the .gov gets involved and makes it MANDATORY to be installed if you touch anything old that's been there forever! (Also helps make the inventor rich since you now HAVE to buy his product). We had our kitchen remodeled a couple of years ago. House was built in 1965. The new kitchen has another half-dozen required GFCI protected outlets, new vent fan and we even had to change our smoke detector to a combo carbon-monoxide/smoke detector which was down the hall in front of the bedrooms. Not complaining since we needed more outlets, but I thought the smoke detector thing was a bit much since we have a whole house alarm system w/ smoke detectors and rate-of-rise heat detectors as well as break-in detectors.
Dale Gribble
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See...I've heard this for years, but I don't buy it because I believe it to be a buncha hogwash.
If the codes were really about "protection and safety", they would not allow lightweight manufactured trusses or I-beam floor joists to be used in place of cut rafters or solid joists.
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Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
Or outlets made in Chinasiastan that are safety hazards when they come off the production floor. Or CFL bulbs full of mercury.
It's for the children.
Ikarus1
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Mad Dawg
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I'm not a licensed engineer so I cannot comment to the "engineering" behind manufactured trusses, but will say that using manufactured trusses are equally sound if not better in some ways than traditional framing techniques. If the trusses are designed, constructed and use quality materials (mainly the species and grade of wood being the biggest difference), trusses are a good to use for subflooring/framing applications. One key benefit of trusses as previously mentioned is the allowable clear span over a given space. Another is the openness to allow plumbing, electrical and mechanical systems to be run without cutting, notching or boring through joints and studs which, with each, causes said joist or stud to lose some of the load carrying capacity. Lastly, if the plans were designed using manufactured trusses, and there is a professional engineer seal as to the soundness of the truss design and its use, if there was ever a failure, liability falls on the engineer, not the municipality.
9outof10mms
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@Mad Dawg , not at all to preach to you, but I do want to say that you should welcome discussions like this and not shy away from them. As you enter the world of regulation, these people here will be your customers. You can either make a black and white "hate/hate" relationship, or you can be one of the rare good ones that not only knows what he's talking about, but also knows that the jack boot is not always needed to keep a good working relationship with said customers. In the case of this exact thread, it would be beneficial for you to be able to respectfully articulate why some inspections are necessary and valuable for the owner.
They burn nice and quick like too..
Engineered stair construction is even more betters, fire doods are gonna love them once they become more widespread.
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
What you want is a social engineer, and a doxxer to deal with glorified bean counters and pencil pushers working for a muni. Get some dirt on em before you call em out.
Dale Gribble
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My point exactly...
Much of the building code was borne from major fire disasters...the 1871 Chicago fire...the 1904 Baltimore fire and others.
Doesn't take too long under heavy fire conditions for those trusses/I-beams to fail, which leads to collapse. Oh...it can happen with traditional rafters and floor joists, but it takes a hell of a lot longer. Lightweight construction has a nasty habit of not giving you much, if any warning that the sh*t's about to fall in; seen it happen.
OP
But it get more people into homes they otherwise couldn't afford, so these new codes have to be a good thing
Dale Gribble
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^^^^Follow the money^^^^
Cheaper/faster to build...making it easier to move on to the next build...and the next, and the next and the next.
Not slamming anyone in particular and specifically, not @concepthomes1...I know he's in the business and I'd be surprised if he half-assed anything with regard to construction. Doesn't impress me as being that type.
But, I have seen folks slap a house together and after it is done, you can walk through it and see they didn't give a tinkers damn about quality...only quantity and profit margins.
I'll refer back to my GFC triangle...
Pick two, only two.
You can have it fast and good, but it won't be cheap.
You can have it good and cheap, but it won't be fast.
You can have it cheap and fast, but it won't be good.
Cheaper/faster to build...making it easier to move on to the next build...and the next, and the next and the next.
Not slamming anyone in particular and specifically, not @concepthomes1...I know he's in the business and I'd be surprised if he half-assed anything with regard to construction. Doesn't impress me as being that type.
But, I have seen folks slap a house together and after it is done, you can walk through it and see they didn't give a tinkers damn about quality...only quantity and profit margins.
I'll refer back to my GFC triangle...
Pick two, only two.
You can have it fast and good, but it won't be cheap.
You can have it good and cheap, but it won't be fast.
You can have it cheap and fast, but it won't be good.
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If it was about safety, those damn backstab receptacles would be outlawed.
Just had to put 4 smoke detectors in a 10 sqft area because of code. Literally could touch all of them from standing in one spot. The electrical inspector was good with one in the hallway, but the cat that did the C.O. had to have them in every bedroom and hallway. Should be fun trying to figure out which one is beeping because the 9volt battery is dead... Code you say
Just had to put 4 smoke detectors in a 10 sqft area because of code. Literally could touch all of them from standing in one spot. The electrical inspector was good with one in the hallway, but the cat that did the C.O. had to have them in every bedroom and hallway. Should be fun trying to figure out which one is beeping because the 9volt battery is dead... Code you say
Are these the I joists that are essentially glued together pieces of OSB? What happens to them if they get saturated with water?
I would not have a problem with the inspections if the gov would stand behind their quality, but they do not. If a problem occurs because the inspector missed something that was not up to code and damage occurs to your dwelling because of it, you cannot sue the gov, which could be a problem if the contractor has gone bankrupt.
No I was asking for realz. I have never been totally sold on them because of the OSB. I assumed they would degrade significantly if they were exposed to too much moisture.
Kinda off topic, but superior wall was another thing I thought sounded better on paper than reality. Have you had any experiences or installed any of those systems?
9outof10mms
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OSB, on the surface, looks like something one step above paper mache. Bt in reality, it's quite strong with all the glue in it. Look at a house that stopped halfway through construction and the roof is left exposed for a while. The OSB turns gray and looks done for, but it remain strong for a while. But, it does get to a point where you can put a finger through it.
A solid wooden beam would provide the longest fire and weather/water resistance, true. But it's also a crap-ton heavier, more expensive, and gobbles up resources at a faster rate. The necessity for something else gave birth to lighter and slightly cheaper materials.
9outof10mms
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It's a risk assessment/balance on the part of the owner. How much would it cost to remedy if it's ever discovered (i.e. home inspection when selling). The last thing you want to do is screw up your sale and/or spend a ton of money making the house "better" for someone else. Or, what's the risk to your personal safety? In terms of electrical, I've learned (the "easy way" thankfully--just monetarily, not by means of fire) that it's better to pay an electrician for anything other than a switch replacement. The home inspector beat me up on my last sale, and rightfully so. I had no clue how to wire up a GFI circuit/outlet. Also had a number of "come here, let me show you how badly you could have screwed yourself with what you did here..." moments with my hired repair electrician.
I'm not at all advocating support of kissing the royal ring for everything. I've seen my fair share of stupid mistakes when it comes to people who should have known what they were doing (i.e. contractors), nevermind my own handywork, that could have benefitted from some oversight. When it comes to some specific critical work, there's no harm in ensuring it's been done to at least a minimum *modern* level of standard. Users should define their own "critical work," but be willing to accept that your opinion likely differs from someone who may want to occupy your handywork when it's complete.
With our humble submission to the throne comes a demand that the throne provide competent deputies of its rule. Nothing sucks more than a career regulator who thinks they can re-write code on the fly according to their glory days in the field and their personal opinion. A close second place sucky-ness is people who lay down and accept it rather than taking the issue to the powers that be for correction. Nothing will change if the end users all bend over and accept it. I've seen all the reasons: fear of retaliation, no time for that, it's just easier to put up with it and make them happy, etc.
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9outof10mms
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Outbuildings, per my home inspector (where our new house has two outbuildings) are not inspected unless specifically asked for by the purchaser. And even then, they don't go into depth as far as permits and such.
The only kicker for a shed is that urban areas (such as Meck County, Wake, etc.) will see it in the yearly aerial imagery. It's very easy for them to spot a new impervious surface and/or structure. In Meck County, they fly LiDAR typically with the aerial imagery, which points out unnatural man-made things like a beacon.
9outof10mms
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Don't kid yourself: I'm sure Cab does it too. Maybe not yearly, but they do it too. Very likely anywhere that has a stormwater fee. That's kind of how it started, looking for impervious surface to tax.
It's a double-edge sword: as an engineer, it's a great tool to have LiDAR and recent aerial imagery. It actually reduces time and costs to do some initial scouting. But what's that saying about "with great power comes great looks" or something...
OP
But Will it stand the test of time? Great grammas house was built in the 1860s and those rough cut boards are just as strong today as when they were nailed on place. No glue in em to fail.
9outof10mms
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As @concepthomes1 said, no, they won't. That's my biggest fear of modern low and medium income housing: they're all gonna crap out in 50-100 years and we'll be left with some serious blight all over. Detroit will look like a resort hotel compared to the housing apocalypse that'll hit us. As with our public infrastructure, no one wants to maintain the stuff ot the level they demand. The Romans' roads are still in use today--that's because they've got a base course that's measured in FEET, not inches like we do today. Our roads are considered "good" if we get 20-50 years out of them without structural failure! It's because we've gone low-cost and early performance--like using OSB. Streamline the construction today, get some immediate acceptable results, and the later consequences be gosh-darned!
doose
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One of the considerations, is that while building to last hundreds of years is preferred, most people can not afford that level of excellence in construction.
Driving the median level of home construction from $180,000 to $600,000 would preclude a lot of people from buying a home. (those figures for home construction costs are just illustrative by the way, not based on actual numbers)
Driving the median level of home construction from $180,000 to $600,000 would preclude a lot of people from buying a home. (those figures for home construction costs are just illustrative by the way, not based on actual numbers)