Personal Story - Garage Break-in (Lessons Learned)

[Tailhunter]

Don't move dirtbag!

 

[Gazengine]

As I live close to Concord and have family in this area, this hits close to home. Thanks for posting and telling us your story. This can be a wake up call to a lot of us, myself included. This is a good time for all to review emergency plans. Like xtp308 said, I live in a rural area with flashlights and firearms in most rooms. Critters in the chickens at night is a way of life. When it comes down to a situation like yours, we just hope to handle it the best that we can. Thanks

 

[MostWanted]

For centuries? Maybe within the last 100 years or less, but stealing a man's livestock, etc, warranted hanging, because that was literally their life. Steal someone's property and they could very well starve as they are no longer able to provide for themselves.

But that was done by the Sheriff and courts, and only after due process, i.e., a trial, jury of your peers, conviction, opportunity for appeal, etc.; even in 1870, a rancher couldn't just take it upon himself to string someone up. Just as now, private citizens could only use deadly force to end an imminent threat, and starvation does not qualify as an imminent threat. I realize that the law didn't have a large presence in Montana in 1870, and maybe some people (or communities) took shortcuts, but the Constitution of the United States has been in effect since 1789. And that has its roots in the Magna Carta, signed in 1215:

NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the Land.

 

[11B CIB]

But that was done by the Sheriff and courts, and only after due process, i.e., a trial, jury of your peers, conviction, opportunity for appeal, etc.; even in 1870, a rancher couldn't just take it upon himself to string someone up. Just as now, private citizens could only use deadly force to end an imminent threat, and starvation does not qualify as an imminent threat. I realize that the law didn't have a large presence in Montana in 1870, and maybe some people (or communities) took shortcuts, but the Constitution of the United States has been in effect since 1789. And that has its roots in the Magna Carta, signed in 1215:

There are clear recorded incidents of vigilante hangings well outside the due process of law. It did happen. Was it right? If the courts either failed to act or acted too slowly for the circumstances....sure. I read about one instance that was actually reported from Cimarron, NM circa 1889. And probably many dozens more went without a word said.

 

[noway2]

I realize that the law didn't have a large presence in Montana in 1870, and maybe some people (or communities) took shortcuts, but the Constitution of the United States has been in effect since 1789. And that has its roots in the Magna Carta, signed in 1215:

Today it has an excessive and overbearing presence, and it's still not effective. One of the fundamental requirements is that if a proclamation like that is to have legitimate meaning, it must be upheld. The "justice" system doesn't work. The victims don't get justice, the perpetrators aren't dealt with, and the average citizen gets steamrolled by the courts for BS of the sort that the nation's founders went to war over. As the old saying goes, don't owe on my head and tell me it's raining and by similar token, don't quote law as scripture and expect compliance when it's become meaningless.

 

[noway2]

There are clear recorded incidents of vigilante hangings well outside the due process of law. It did happen. Was it right? If the courts either failed to act or acted too slowly for the circumstances....sure.

Over $250,000 was stolen from my family by a fraudulent contractor. Collectively he stole almost $1M from several families and businesses in this local area. People went to the police only to be told it's a civil matter. He declared bankruptcy and was allowed to walk away from most of that. We're still challenging his bankruptcy. This's as been going on for over a year and I know damned well he is living on and fighting the legal battle with his stolen funds. On top of that, even if we do win, this state has little provision to enforce a judgement and they won't garnish wages over civil ones. It still becomes a please pay up.

This is experience has altered my view of the "system" in a very negative way....

 

[Qball]

Thanks for posting your story. We can all Monday morning QB this story all day long. What I take from it? You looked back in hindsight and discovered some problems related to your alarm system, the way information was relayed to 911, visual access to your valuables, and physical access to the interior of your dwelling. Based on that hindsight, you took corrective action. Therefore, I think you handled the situation amazingly well. Congrats is all I can pass along.

 

[Tailhunter]

There are multiple legal doctrines in play here. The one we are most familiar with is imminent threat; an automated device cannot assess whether there is an imminent threat, and if no victim is present, there is no imminent threat. It has been universally recognized in Western law for centuries that a human life, even that of a thief or tresspasser, is more valuable than anything he may steal or destroy.

There's the doctrine of "attractive nuisance", where a property owner is expected to take precautions to protect persons who may be attracted to something hazardous, e.g., climbing a radio tower, or diving into a flooded quarry pit. The person may be tresspassing, but that doesn't mean that his life is worthless while he's on the property. Some states allow a loophole here for "open and obvious hazards", but that doesn't apply to a booby trap, which by definition, is neither open nor obvious.

Edit to add: There was a recent court case in Florida where a homeowner knew who had been breaking into his garage but couldn't catch him. So he set up a bait trap; left the door unlocked (and did some other things to make it tempting, I cannot remember exactly what) and waited for him to break in, then shot the man. IIRC, homeowner has been charged and is pending trial. I think his downfall was that he told some of the neighbors he was going to do it ahead of time. I tried looking for this online but couldn't find the specifics right now.

 

[Tailhunter]

Maybe that silliness should be re-examined.

 

[MacA]

Therefore, I think you handled the situation amazingly well. Congrats is all I can pass along.

I appreciate the kind words!

 

[MostWanted]

I found the bait story. It was Montana, not Florida.

 

[Short Fuse]

You forgot the punji sticks and deadfalls. LOL



MacA...I'm glad things worked out in your favor and that you've had an opportunity to refine your defenses.

I didn't forget them I got tired of typing. Punji sticks covered in feces and rotting flesh is even better.