Policy question for mods....

I've only gotten so far as the first dozen or so posts here, at the moment. But here's my opinion:

I am an adult, and I fully understand the concept of personal responsibility. However, regardless of whether or not I fully understand the concept of personal responsibility, I am still going to be held accountable for my actions.

It is not the job of other people or entities (such as CFF) to look out for my personal well being. That's for me, and if I suck at it I should be the one who pays the price.

It is the responsibility of other individuals and entities (CFF included) to look out for themselves.

CFF has legal and moral responsibilities, which are bound by the jurisdictional laws where they operate and the morals of the owners. For them to unilaterally extend an "umbrella of protection" over members because they may or may not have some kind of criminal issue to deal with not only crosses the line with respect to the personal responsibilities of individual members of the site, it may very well also cross the line with respect to their own legal and moral responsibilities. That would place THEM in peril because of actions they may take due to things which are MY responsibility. And that ain't right.

I submit this: If an individual thinks what they may post can be held against them, then they need to think long and hard before they click the "Post" button.


I'm sure many here know I'm a Heinlein fan...Lord knows I've posted quotes from him many times. Here's one with respect to responsibility:

“My point is that one person is responsible. Always. [...] In terms of morals there is no such thing as ‘state.’ Just men. Individuals. Each responsible for his own acts.”

- The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Robert A. Heinlein


You are either responsible for what you post...or you should not be posting in the first place.
 
noway2 said:
My experience with censors is that user deleted stuff really isn’t deleted, it’s just not visible unless you’re a mod or an admin in which case you can read or restore it.
Click to expand...

Speaking as someone who used to help moderate a social Q&A site as a "Community Leader", this is true.

And even deleted material, up to and including whole accounts, may still be recovered. My own account was inadvertently "nuked" at the aforementioned social Q&A site, and yet they managed to recover it in its entirety (though it took a few days of hard work for them to do it).
 
Silver_Bullet said:
IMO the response as an owner of a forum should be, “ do you have a warrant?” and I also wouldn’t help search, only provide them access to the specific data concerning a warrant. Doing what the law required, nothing more or less. They’d have no business combing over all user data, warrants aren’t supposed to be that broad.
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I agree 100%.

There’s a big difference between “get a warrant” and what Tans is asking for
 
HMP said:
Is he the guy that constantly talked about moving to south america back on Crack Smoking Canadians? I didnt think about it till you said that, but now remember someone that always talked about how bad America was getting and how he was getting out...just as soon as X Y and Z work out perfectly.
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2kassy.jpg

Fixed your code loop for you, since it seems to just repeat over and over. No charge.
 
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So.... for the record..... No I am not advocating that mods take responsibility for us making dumb statements. Although everyone on this board know how constantly I harp about how we are victims and need centralized forces to protect us and reject the idea of personal responsibility, on this aberrant idea, I actually think we should do something DIFFERENT and be responsible for our own decisions. I am sure this is difficult for some of the brilliant and incisive critics here to fathom how I could take such a crazy and unusual position, but.... no, I am not saying the mods should save us from ourselves. If your cognitive powers are such that you just can't see otherwise, don't torture yourself. Pass on by. I don't feel motivated to teach calculus to Schnauzers and I don't feel like parsing it out for you.

Second, I am going to stick with my stunted paucity of knowledge about how the legal system works with regard to "evidence" consisting of one liners, attitude revealers, and general gun culture views that might pop up in a member's posts.... and be used not for "evidence" but to sway emotions. In viewing the thread here, it is obvious that I have not watched enough episodes of LAW AND ORDER to have a proper understanding of the situation and am really stupid in inviting the mods to spend time in prison in the name of purging inflammatory rhetoric that I thought (pitiful fool that I am!) might have no evidentiary value, but only prejudicial. I clearly need to go back and binge watch Perry Mason reruns so I can get up to the level of legal understanding here. I will try not to be smoking dope while doing so and clouding my 2 functioning neurons from the crystal clear analysis folks have helped me with. Anyway, I can hope, can't I?

Finally.

I have not posted in here more than .... say... 30 times or so, why I returned from Mexico after going there after selling my business. However, like some person who spends all day in the shower because they read "Lather, rinse, repeat" on a shampoo bottle, a few posters in here have gotten great glee in repeating "HEY, AIN'T HE THE GUY WHO WAS MOVING TO PERU???? HAW HAW HAW" It is kind of like watching Stephen Colbert droning the same stupid Trump joke for the nine millionth time, and his cranially vacant acolytes laugh at it over and over and over.... till you get bored enough and just turn the TV off and go to sleep, I guess.

So, like telling a child "don't touch the stove, it will burn you"... while preparing the 5th gauze bandage in a row for his hand, I will tell you again about moving out of country.

I did sell my business because I did (and still do) believe, that we are headed for a massive dollar, political, and societal collapse. I was actually more frustrated with "conservatives" than the leftists because frankly, the support for the Republicans (especially GW Bush) and the idiotic insistence that they were any real difference was maddening to me. The idiotic vacant Rushbots insisting that the problem was "RINOS," cheering the idiotic pursuit of wars, and in general being deliberately ignorant of deep state big gov made me believe that the "right" was just as fascist as the "left," for all their flag waving and bible quoting. I wanted a back door out of that zoo. I went down south and actually FOUND a place and HAVE a retreat to which I can retreat if the balloon goes up and the "wall" winds up like the Berlin wall, trying to keep people and assets IN the USA rather than OUT.

However, it became obvious to me and my wife that my grandson (Micah, age 6 now) had severe problems, and my command of Spanish was not good enough to negotiate a foreign medical system to get help for him. We came home, sold our house, and prepared to move out of the city (Durham). ON THE DAY we were negotiating the sale of the house, Trump won a national election. This did, I admit, give me a bit of hope that there may be an awareness that the "conservative" movement, dominated by neocons, was full of sh*t and actually more of a hindrance to freedom than a help. We moved to a small town. I began polishing skills I thought would be helpful in an economic collapse, and we are, for now, still in the USA. I still have my hidey hole south of the border, and frankly would be there if it were not for my grandson.

Don't let that stop your glee though, from asking the same stupid question you have already asked about leaving the country. Like someone breaking into giggles over stretching a rubber band and watching it return over and over, I can tell you get jollies from it, and who am I to prevent your lulz, no matter how little it takes to get you there?

Yeah... I know. TLDR. But you did. I know it and so do you. But, if it makes you feel better, say it anyway. Like I said, who am I to deprive you of your lulz?


My job is done here.
 
I can't understand why someone with such great knowledge and intellect would even want to hang out with a bunch of knuckledragging know nothing morons like us anyway?
 
SPST said:
I can't understand why someone with such great knowledge and intellect would even want to hang out with a bunch of knuckledragging know nothing morons like us anyway?
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I'm just I'm just here for the legal education myself. How about you?
 
Cowboy said:
If your looking for legal education I suggest going to the UNC school of government blogs. You Might find someone on your level over there.
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hey thanks for that advice! I think instead I might try one of the law schools down in Mexico. Or maybe Peru. Would you like for me to send you a postcard?
 
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RetiredUSNChief said:
Speaking as someone who used to help moderate a social Q&A site as a "Community Leader", this is true.

And even deleted material, up to and including whole accounts, may still be recovered. My own account was inadvertently "nuked" at the aforementioned social Q&A site, and yet they managed to recover it in its entirety (though it took a few days of hard work for them to do it).
Click to expand...

I often tell people, much to their dismay- that nothing you write on the internet ever goes away.
Aside from the user/admin interface "accessible" stuff, on the back side there are multiple images of just about everything. Backups, backups of backups, RAID servers, logs and dozens of places where things get duped both short and long term. This stuff typically doesnt "live" on one hard drive, disk or tape. It may be difficult ( read that labor intensive) to get at some of it, but its there. Short of physical destruction of all media ( a challenge even for the folks running the systems and responsible to know where it is at ) it is virtually impossible to delete every instance of your stuff.
 
Although I find the OP's posts ranging from fairly cogent to sometimes obtuse to frequently off the reservation, I appreciate the mental gymnastics and 'talking through' the question. The bottom line is you are responsible for what you say, what you type, what you do. There are instances where the mods may be legally liable (I am going to kill xxxxxx, or I am going to kill myself....), their job is mainly to keep threads on track and right-track the A-holes. If you can't police yourself or are worried about the ramifications of what you post...don't post.
 
In my opinion:

No, the last thing I want is mods scanning the newspapers daily for names of criminals and then trying to compare it to the database of those who are members here and then attempting to run code to scrub the forum of their content.

If, for some reason, you want your own content deleted or removed, then I am sure the mods would quickly and easily delete your account. As we saw with the Canadian forum, removing users and what they post from public view wouldn't be difficult.

On top of that, these dudes that run this do so primarily out of a desire to give back, not make tons of cash (or any at all). So the last thing I want is to put any of them even remotely in a situation that could cause them to be at risk even from a frivolous lawsuit over hiding content. I screw up and do something stupid, or even not stupid, I don't want my friends here put in any risk.

"We got your back" is true, and we see it all the time, but they will still banhammer someone with a dang quickness if they screw up.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
So.... for the record..... No I am not advocating that mods take responsibility for us making dumb statements. Although everyone on this board know how constantly I harp about how we are victims and need centralized forces to protect us and reject the idea of personal responsibility, on this aberrant idea, I actually think we should do something DIFFERENT and be responsible for our own decisions. I am sure this is difficult for some of the brilliant and incisive critics here to fathom how I could take such a crazy and unusual position, but.... no, I am not saying the mods should save us from ourselves. If your cognitive powers are such that you just can't see otherwise, don't torture yourself. Pass on by. I don't feel motivated to teach calculus to Schnauzers and I don't feel like parsing it out for you.

Second, I am going to stick with my stunted paucity of knowledge about how the legal system works with regard to "evidence" consisting of one liners, attitude revealers, and general gun culture views that might pop up in a member's posts.... and be used not for "evidence" but to sway emotions. In viewing the thread here, it is obvious that I have not watched enough episodes of LAW AND ORDER to have a proper understanding of the situation and am really stupid in inviting the mods to spend time in prison in the name of purging inflammatory rhetoric that I thought (pitiful fool that I am!) might have no evidentiary value, but only prejudicial. I clearly need to go back and binge watch Perry Mason reruns so I can get up to the level of legal understanding here. I will try not to be smoking dope while doing so and clouding my 2 functioning neurons from the crystal clear analysis folks have helped me with. Anyway, I can hope, can't I?

Finally.

I have not posted in here more than .... say... 30 times or so, why I returned from Mexico after going there after selling my business. However, like some person who spends all day in the shower because they read "Lather, rinse, repeat" on a shampoo bottle, a few posters in here have gotten great glee in repeating "HEY, AIN'T HE THE GUY WHO WAS MOVING TO PERU???? HAW HAW HAW" It is kind of like watching Stephen Colbert droning the same stupid Trump joke for the nine millionth time, and his cranially vacant acolytes laugh at it over and over and over.... till you get bored enough and just turn the TV off and go to sleep, I guess.

So, like telling a child "don't touch the stove, it will burn you"... while preparing the 5th gauze bandage in a row for his hand, I will tell you again about moving out of country.

I did sell my business because I did (and still do) believe, that we are headed for a massive dollar, political, and societal collapse. I was actually more frustrated with "conservatives" than the leftists because frankly, the support for the Republicans (especially GW Bush) and the idiotic insistence that they were any real difference was maddening to me. The idiotic vacant Rushbots insisting that the problem was "RINOS," cheering the idiotic pursuit of wars, and in general being deliberately ignorant of deep state big gov made me believe that the "right" was just as fascist as the "left," for all their flag waving and bible quoting. I wanted a back door out of that zoo. I went down south and actually FOUND a place and HAVE a retreat to which I can retreat if the balloon goes up and the "wall" winds up like the Berlin wall, trying to keep people and assets IN the USA rather than OUT.

However, it became obvious to me and my wife that my grandson (Micah, age 6 now) had severe problems, and my command of Spanish was not good enough to negotiate a foreign medical system to get help for him. We came home, sold our house, and prepared to move out of the city (Durham). ON THE DAY we were negotiating the sale of the house, Trump won a national election. This did, I admit, give me a bit of hope that there may be an awareness that the "conservative" movement, dominated by neocons, was full of sh*t and actually more of a hindrance to freedom than a help. We moved to a small town. I began polishing skills I thought would be helpful in an economic collapse, and we are, for now, still in the USA. I still have my hidey hole south of the border, and frankly would be there if it were not for my grandson.

Don't let that stop your glee though, from asking the same stupid question you have already asked about leaving the country. Like someone breaking into giggles over stretching a rubber band and watching it return over and over, I can tell you get jollies from it, and who am I to prevent your lulz, no matter how little it takes to get you there?

Yeah... I know. TLDR. But you did. I know it and so do you. But, if it makes you feel better, say it anyway. Like I said, who am I to deprive you of your lulz?

My job is done here.
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-Now there's a long diatribe, it probably didn't help with your critics. Tans, don't let it/them get to you.

- I found the post interesting, like a conversation sitting around the fire bowl. Throwing ideas against the wall and seeing what sticks keeps things interesting. Several folk quickly went personal.

- How many of you have met Tans? I purchased some mags, spoke to him several times and met him when he took a couple days to drive over an hour, slept on the porch and gave his time to help out someone else on this forum. He came across as one of the nicest folk you'll meet.
 
Pink_Vapor said:
-Now there's a long diatribe, it probably didn't help with your critics. Tans, don't let it/them get to you.

- I found the post interesting, like a conversation sitting around the fire bowl. Throwing ideas against the wall and seeing what sticks keeps things interesting. Several folk quickly went personal.

- How many of you have met Tans? I purchased some mags, spoke to him several times and met him when he took a couple days to drive over an hour, slept on the porch and gave his time to help out someone else on this forum. He came across as one of the nicest folk you'll meet.
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Tnx. Just havin fun
 
Alfred said:
I often tell people, much to their dismay- that nothing you write on the internet ever goes away.
Aside from the user/admin interface "accessible" stuff, on the back side there are multiple images of just about everything. Backups, backups of backups, RAID servers, logs and dozens of places where things get duped both short and long term. This stuff typically doesnt "live" on one hard drive, disk or tape. It may be difficult ( read that labor intensive) to get at some of it, but its there. Short of physical destruction of all media ( a challenge even for the folks running the systems and responsible to know where it is at ) it is virtually impossible to delete every instance of your stuff.
Click to expand...


This is good advice. In a lawsuit (mentioned above) I was confronted with a hd that the defendant (other defendant) had used one of those "clean up" utilities over and over and over. He ran like 30 passes on it trying to wipe data. The moron did not realize that unallocated space HAS the files in it, just not the headers, and Norton does not "scrub" the unallocated space. The moron. When I was giving my testimony of why they should believe that I had not tried to erase anything on my drives, I said "I could get rid of it. I could DD it with random characters and rewrite the drive 20 passes and it WOULD take the data off. However, with IPv4, even though the data is gone, I would be like Carlos here with his computer engineer --who I sincerely hope he did not pay the guy anything, since he obviously is not worth anything-- and would be left with a drive with no data, but a clear flashing sign on the drive saying "IT USED TO BE HERE AND I DELETED IT".... which would probably tip you guys off that I am a liar and a crook.... besides that, you know I have backups, and you know the efax outfit I use has copies of all the docs on THEIR servers, so if you wanted it, you could get it...., but the real thing to do is check my tables. You have a forensics guy (and here I nodded at their guy) who will be able to ENCASE or CAINE to spot that stuff in a second, right?" He nodded and smiled. It was a glorious day. Carlos (Brown)'s face and his computer guy could have curdled milk, and I was just smiling. Anyway If you nuke a file (and you CAN nuke it, dban will get the content gone), you can't kill the reference tables.... or at least I am not bright enough to know how to do that..., and you will show it was there..., and then it is just a matter of chasing it down in the archives, since everything everywhere anywhere is backed up nowadays. The average schmuck like me usually just thinks formatting the drive kills the data. Instead it is like opening a file drawer and just tearing the labels off the file folders. All the data is still there.

I am not talking about that at all. Trying to hide info from a good sleuth. That is criminal. Right now, though anyone with a modem can peruse through most of the posting on this board. I try to envision some little Dainty Dorothy who wants to save the planet and destroy the male patriarchy in Durham sitting in a jury box being presented with some of the language here on this board... and I just thought "why make it easy for a lawyer to poison the well like that?"

That was the motivation for the OP, and I am sorry for the normal pattern of bellowing, "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING?" types of posts, and the meandering into legal and tech issues that brings out all the experts who comment with great fervor :) ... and then get pissed when I make fun of them for doing so.

Anyway, I do still think a "nuke it all" button would be helpful, if for no other reason than to say "we don't have a list here, and since you HAVE a court order, here is the list of deleted files" Frankly, most lawyers are going to go for the low hanging fruit, and if it is not out there in plain sight, I think they would look elsewhere.

That was the motivation. Sorry it took two pages of posts :) to explain that. I still think it would be in fact a reasonable, wise and good thing to have as an option. It ain't my board, though. FWIW.
 
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tanstaafl72555 said:
I missed you.
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I appreciate your ramblings at times. Sometimes they seem like mind dumps but who doesn't do that on here from time to time. I'm sure you are a great guy and hope to meet you one day.

**Mind dump in my vocabulary is just spilling your thoughts not dumb crap just coming out of your ears.
 
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Cowboy said:
I appreciate your ramblings at times. Sometimes they seem like mind dumps but who doesn't do that on here from time to time. I'm sure you are a great guy and hope to meet you one day.
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Don't let my charming and appealing and friendly online persona fool you. I am difficult to get along with in real life.
 
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