Powder storage cabinet

Sleazy P. Martini

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One is supposed to get a wooden cabinet with 1" walls for storing between 20 and 50 pounds of powder.
I'm curious how others have accomplished this. Did you build your own? Buy something from Amazon? Find something on craigslist? I'm trying to get some ideas before building/buying my own. Thanks for any insights!
 
I went to Delk’s Surplus and bought a big plastic airtight clamshell case. Packed it full of powder jugs and a desiccant can. I store it outside in my shed, about 75’ from the house. It’s got handles in case I need to move it and...
H’ain’t blowed up so fer...
 
One is supposed to get a wooden cabinet with 1" walls for storing between 20 and 50 pounds of powder.
I'm curious how others have accomplished this. Did you build your own? Buy something from Amazon? Find something on craigslist? I'm trying to get some ideas before building/buying my own. Thanks for any insights!

I use a wooden gun cabinet that my dad built when he was younger. Originally it had a glass door that was broken. So I built a new door and added colored plexiglass to keep it light. I keep all of my reloading books, powder, projectiles, primers, press parts in there.
 
One is supposed to get a wooden cabinet with 1" walls for storing between 20 and 50 pounds of powder.
I'm curious how others have accomplished this. Did you build your own? Buy something from Amazon? Find something on craigslist? I'm trying to get some ideas before building/buying my own. Thanks for any insights!

"One is supposed to..." ?
Where did you come across this? Who says? Where is it written? Is this a suggestion, a recommendation, a rule, a statute, a law?

Not trying to be difficult, but just trying to make sure everyone is starting from the same level of understanding before we get down to brass tacks.
 
It's in the residential fire code. I can't quote the scripture on this but I'm sure Google can.

Residential fire code for which community? I wasn't aware that all cities, townships & communities used the same fire code.

So, for example, with OP having Holly Springs NC listed in his/her profile, is that where this gem comes from?
Does the fire marshal come out to inspect?
What happens to home owners who don't invite the fire marshal to their home?
What happens to home owners who are unaware of or unable to comply with the residential fire code?
 
International Fire Code ICC 5606.4.2:

powder storage.jpg


Group R just means "Residential"
It's not going to matter unless there's a reason for the fire marshal to inspect your house. Maybe related to pulling a building permit, adopting or fostering a child, or you had a fire. You can bet your ass your insurance company will use any reason it can find to not pay you if your house burns down.
 
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International Fire Code ICC 5606.4.2:

View attachment 158497


It's not going to matter unless there's a reason for the fire marshal to inspect your house. Maybe related to pulling a building permit, adopting or fostering a child, or you had a fire. You can bet your ass your insurance company will use any reason it can find to not pay you if your house burns down.

Thanks much for the reply, @Catfish. I'm finding it hard to believe that anyone really thinks 50 pounds of smokeless powder is any safer inside a container made of 1" thick wood. This smells like someone was told they had to invent a code requirement so they just made up some numbers.
 
One is supposed to get a wooden cabinet with 1" walls for storing between 20 and 50 pounds of powder.
I'm curious how others have accomplished this. Did you build your own? Buy something from Amazon? Find something on craigslist? I'm trying to get some ideas before building/buying my own. Thanks for any insights!

OP, now that I understand the origination of your question, I'd say that you have to make some decisions:
  1. Will you comply with the code requirement?
  2. Will you comply with the letter of the code requirement?
  3. Will you comply with the spirit of the code requirement?

You could get some cheap particle board and slap together a foot locker style of cabinet big enough to hold fifty of the 1 pound jugs and be in compliance with the letter of the code requirement.

You could build something out of hickory or another strong hardwood, with the looks and the strength to rival any pirate chest big enough to hold six of the 8 pound jugs (which isn't very big) and be in compliance with the spirit of the code requirement.

Some folks might take a different approach, like evaluating how quickly they go through powder and determine how much powder is actually on hand on average at any point in time and then decide that they really don't STORE it as much as they buy it as needed and then use it up. In that scenario, a storage cabinet wouldn't be necessary.
 
"international fire code"

I am pretty sure I need to abide by:

* Any restrictions imposed by my insurer
* Local building/zoning codes.
* My wife.


As far as I'm concerned the amorphous "international fire code" is way down the list.
 
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OP, now that I understand the origination of your question, I'd say that you have to make some decisions:
  1. Will you comply with the code requirement?
  2. Will you comply with the letter of the code requirement?
  3. Will you comply with the spirit of the code requirement?

You could get some cheap particle board and slap together a foot locker style of cabinet big enough to hold fifty of the 1 pound jugs and be in compliance with the letter of the code requirement.

You could build something out of hickory or another strong hardwood, with the looks and the strength to rival any pirate chest big enough to hold six of the 8 pound jugs (which isn't very big) and be in compliance with the spirit of the code requirement.

Some folks might take a different approach, like evaluating how quickly they go through powder and determine how much powder is actually on hand on average at any point in time and then decide that they really don't STORE it as much as they buy it as needed and then use it up. In that scenario, a storage cabinet wouldn't be necessary.
Just FYI, you’re looking for strong walls and a loose top to control how gases vent during combustion.

"international fire code"

I am pretty sure I need to abide by:

* Any restrictions imposed by my insurer
* Local building/zoning codes.
* My wife.


As far as I'm concerned the amorphous "international fire code" is way down the list.

A great many local communities simply adopt the current version of the international code or one of the others, you’d need to pull your city ordinances to see which.
 
Didn't mean to start a debate. I err on the side of caution when it comes to covering my butt (especially considering how little I paid for my house and what it's worth now). I ask regarding storage because I'm planning to stock up before election season comes along. I know I'm still limited to 10k primers, but primers are easier to find than specific powders.
 
"international fire code"

I am pretty sure I need to abide by:

* Any restrictions imposed by my insurer
* Local building/zoning codes.
* My wife.


As far as I'm concerned the amorphous "international fire code" is way down the list.


Tell the truth. You started at the bottom of the page and went up didn't you???
 
Also, I've checked both my homeowner's policy and my town's ordinances and my searches haven't found any references to smokeless, powder, or primers. Still, last thing I want to deal with after a fire is an insurance bean counter making my life hell.
 
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Thanks much for the reply, @Catfish. I'm finding it hard to believe that anyone really thinks 50 pounds of smokeless powder is any safer inside a container made of 1" thick wood. This smells like someone was told they had to invent a code requirement so they just made up some numbers.
I think the idea is that 1" thick walls keep the powder away from flames long enough to hopefully allow people to escape and for firefighters to arrive.
 
http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/storage_handling.aspx

I highlighted the area in red. There is more info at the website.


Properties of Smokeless Powders
Smokeless powders, or propellants, are essentially mixtures of chemicals designed to burn under controlled conditions at the proper rate to propel a projectile from a gun.

Smokeless powders are made in three forms:

  1. Thin, circular flakes or wafers
  2. Small cylinders
  3. Small spheres
  4. Single-base smokeless powders derive their main source of energy from nitrocellulose.
The energy released from double-base smokeless powders is derived from both nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin.

All smokeless powders are extremely flammable; by design, they are intended to burn rapidly and vigorously when ignited.

Oxygen from the air is not necessary for the combustion of smokeless powders since they contain sufficient built-in oxygen to burn completely, even in an enclosed space such as the chamber of a firearm.

In effect, ignition occurs when the powder granules are heated above their ignition temperature. This can occur by exposing powder to:

  1. A flame such as a match or primer flash.
  2. An electrical spark or the sparks from welding, grinding, etc.
  3. Heat from an electric hot plate or a fire directed against or near a closed container even if the powder itself is not exposed to the flame.
Informaiton Provided by S A A M I
Sporting Arms and Ammunitaions Manufacturers' Institute, Inc.
FLINTLOCK RIDGE OFFICE CENTER, 11 MILE HILL ROAD
NEWTOWN, CT 06470-2359

When smokeless powder burns, a great deal of gas at high temperature is formed. If the powder is confined, this gas will create pressure in the surrounding structure. The rate of gas generation is such, however, that the pressure can be kept at a low level if sufficient space is available or if the gas can escape.

In this respect smokeless powder differs from blasting agents or high explosives such as dynamite or blasting gelatin, although smokeless powder may contain chemical ingredients common to some of these products.

High explosives such as dynamite are made to detonate, that is, to change from solid state to gaseous state with evolution of intense heat at such a rapid rate that shock waves are propagated through any medium in contact with them. Such shock waves exert pressure on anything they contact, and, as a matter of practical consideration, it is almost impossible to satisfactorily vent away the effects of a detonation involving any appreciable quantity of dynamite.

Smokeless powder differs considerably in its burning characteristics from common "black powder."

Black powder burns essentially at the same rate out in the open (unconfined) as when in a gun.

When ignited in an unconfined state, smokeless powder burns inefficiently with an orange-colored flame. It produces a considerable amount of light brown noxious smelling smoke. It leaves a residue of ash and partially burned powder. The flame is hot enough to cause severe burns.

The opposite is true when it burns under pressure as in a cartridge fired in a gun. Then it produces very little smoke, a small glow, and leaves very little or no residue. The burning rate of smokeless powder increases with increased pressure.

If burning smokeless powder is confined, gas pressure will rise and eventually can cause the container to burst. Under such circumstances, the bursting of a strong container creates effects similar to an explosion.

For this reason, the Department of Transportation (formerly Interstate Commerce Commission) sets specifications for shipping containers for propellants and requires tests of loaded containers - under actual fire conditions - before approving them for use.

When smokeless powder in D.O.T. approved containers is ignited during such tests, container seams split open or lids pop off - to release gases and powder from confinement at low pressure.

How to Check Smokeless Powder for Deterioration
Although modern smokeless powders are basically free from deterioration under proper storage conditions, safe practices require a recognition of the signs of deterioration and its possible effects.

Powder deterioration can be checked by opening the cap on the container and smelling the contents. Powder undergoing deterioration has an irritating acidic odor. (Don't confuse this with common solvent odors such as alcohol, ether and acetone.)

Check to make certain that powder is not exposed to extreme heat as this may cause deterioration. Such exposure produces an acidity which accelerates further reaction and has been known, because of the heat generated by the reaction, to cause spontaneous combustion.

Never salvage powder from old cartridges and do not attempt to blend salvaged powder with new powder. Don't accumulate old powder stocks.

The best way to dispose of deteriorated smokeless powder is to burn it out in the open at an isolated location in small shallow piles (not over 1" deep). The quantity burned in any one pile should never exceed one pound. Use an ignition train of slow burning combustible material so that the person may retreat to a safe distance before powder is ignited.

Considerations for Storage of Smokeless Powder
Smokeless powder is intended to function by burning, so it must be protected against accidental exposure to flame, sparks or high temperatures.

For these reasons, it is desirable that storage enclosures be made of insulating materials to protect the powder from external heat sources.

Once smokeless powder begins to burn, it will normally continue to burn (and generate gas pressure) until it is consumed.

D.O.T. approved containers are constructed to open up at low internal pressures to avoid the effects normally produced by the rupture or bursting of a strong container.

Storage enclosures for smokeless powder should be constructed in a similar manner: 1. Of fire-resistant and heat-insulating materials to protect contents from external heat. 2. Sufficiently large to satisfactorily vent the gaseous products of combustion which would result if the quantity of smokeless powder within the enclosure accidentally ignited.

If a small, tightly enclosed storage enclosure is loaded to capacity with containers of smokeless powder, the enclosure will expand or move outwards to release the gas pressure - if the powder in storage is accidentally ignited.

Under such conditions, the effects of the release of gas pressure are similar or identical to the effects produced by an explosion.

Hence only the smallest practical quantities of smokeless powder should be kept in storage, and then in strict compliance with all applicable regulations and recommendations of the National Fire Protection Association (scroll down to read).

Recommendations for Storage of Smokeless Powder
STORE IN A COOL, DRY PLACE. Be sure the storage area selected is free from any possible sources of excess heat and is isolated from open flame, furnaces, hot water heaters, etc. Do not store smokeless powder where it will be exposed to the sun's rays. Avoid storage in areas where mechanical or electrical equipment is in operation. Restrict from the storage areas heat or sparks which may result from improper, defective or overloaded electrical circuits.

DO NOT STORE SMOKELESS POWDER IN THE SAME AREA WITH SOLVENTS, FLAMMABLE GASES OR HIGHLY COMBUSTIBLE MATERIALS.

STORE ONLY IN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION APPROVED CONTAINERS.

Do not transfer the powder from an approved container into one which is not approved.

DO NOT SMOKE IN AREAS WHERE POWDER IS STORED OR USED. Place appropriate "No Smoking" signs in these areas.

DO NOT SUBJECT THE STORAGE CABINETS TO CLOSE CONFINEMENT. STORAGE CABINETS SHOULD BE CONSTRUCTED OF INSULATING MATERIALS AND WITH A WEAK WALL SEAMS OR JOINTS TO PROVIDE AN EASY MEANS OF SELF-VENTING.

DO NOT KEEP OLD OR SALVAGED POWDERS. Check old powders for deterioration regularly. Destroy deteriorated powders immediately.

OBEY ALL REGULATIONS REGARDING QUANTITY AND METHODS OF STORING. Do not store all your powders in one place. If you can, maintain separate storage locations. Many small containers are safer than one or more large containers.

KEEP YOUR STORAGE AND USE AREA CLEAN. Clean up spilled powder promptly. Make sure the surrounding area is free of trash or other readily combustible materials
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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How about a Sentry locking steel cabinet? Not fire or waterproof, but not flammable in and of itself, loose enough folds & door fit to allow venting, lockable enough to keep small fingers and idly curious people out, can be screwed to the wall studs for stability & security.

You could add plank or plywood shelves to suit your particular needs, and even drill an extra hole or two to allow better venting in case of a fire.
 
I wonder when that was codified. Seems a couple layers of sheetrock would do a much better job.
I agree, and I believe that would follow the spirit of the law.

I have a 12x20 pre-fab building that is my reloading shack. I consider that my wooden container. It is nowhere near the house, and technically it is not considered an occupied residence. But, if the insurance company wants to deny a claim in case it goes up in flames, it is just a 12x20 pre-fab building.
 
I agree, and I believe that would follow the spirit of the law.

I have a 12x20 pre-fab building that is my reloading shack. I consider that my wooden container. It is nowhere near the house, and technically it is not considered an occupied residence. But, if the insurance company wants to deny a claim in case it goes up in flames, it is just a 12x20 pre-fab building.
Willing to rent it some space to store some extra powder and primers? Only somewhat joking. ;)
 
Comments. Ain’t no fire marshal. Was director of safety and property and insurance and environmental for a large Fortune 500 company. Had multiple plants and did a lot of audits. Had plants that “dried” paint and blew up storage buildings....fired some folks for stupidity and violations of rules,

Reality....or my thoughts.

Powder stored properly in the ORIGINAL containers can be safely stored in any closet. Preferably HVAC section of a house. Mi have 35-45 YO powder that shoots s well as some I bought last year and if lead an abused life. Humid and hot attic storage for 20 years. I tested Unique old against fresh Unique and could not see the difference in groups or performance. I store mine in an upstairs closet now.

If you are concerned about fire and such, then concentrate on fire safety for the entire structure....not worrying about powder. Store all oil based paints, thinners, rubbing alcohol, gasoline, other volatiles in a SAFETY CABINET....GROUNDED in the garage.. THAT is a bigger fire risk.

Don’t overload circuits. Throw away faulty extension cords. Do not use candles. Store safety matches in a separate glass, sealed container. The list goes on.

I will probably separate my primers from my powder later on, but they are in the same cabinet now. Get a safety cvinet for all your ammo....grounded.

THEN....after all that, focus on the powder.

BTW...change your smoke detector batteries and practice fire drills. Your insurance, should you have a loss, will not weasel out....on the fireman who hear the boom will be at risk.

Blunt...yes, but truthful.
 
I keep some powder in an IKEA like, Scandinavian, wooden, lateral file cabinet. Would not hesitate to store in a big metal office supply cabinet with doors if had 1 and a place for it.
 
I keep some powder in an IKEA like, Scandinavian, wooden, lateral file cabinet. Would not hesitate to store in a big metal office supply cabinet with doors if had 1 and a place for it.

Probably keeps the powder a little fresher.

If someone really wanted to be 100 OCD, then we would all be wearing grounding straps to prevent static electricity causing an arc when we fill our fuel tanks or when we dispense powder.

That come from years of being the defendant in multi million dollar product liability cases where DOO WEE SOO M & HOW would file a lawsuit every time some idiot using on of our products had a dead flashlight and used a lighter to check the volume in a fuel storage tank. And YES....that is NO BS. I spent several months reading every government and technical publication on the generation of static electricity whilst dispensing grain, volatile fuels, powder, whatever.

What did Willie Shakespeare (the writer......not the guy that invented the fishing pole) say?

Whether tis more noble to be electrically grounded than to suffer the slings and arrows of shysters looking for a buck....?
 
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If you are concerned about fire and such, then concentrate on fire safety for the entire structure....not worrying about powder. Store all oil based paints, thinners, rubbing alcohol, gasoline, other volatiles in a SAFETY CABINET....GROUNDED in the garage.. THAT is a bigger fire risk.
Absolutely!
 
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