Purchasing higher end 1911's in the Carolinas

fieldgrade

fieldgrade

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If one wanted to see 1911's in person like Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Guncrafters, etc, where would one go? I see the occasional used example at a few places from time to time, but where would one shop for one? Maybe you can't.

I've bought the majority of my "run of the mill" pistols "sight unseen" in the recent past because that was sometimes the only way to get them, but for the kind of jack the referenced pistols above cost, I'd sure like to see them first.
 
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Mark L has two Les Baers. @Amp Mangum has a Wilson or three. With this community, I bet you could test fire any of the above for $5.00 or so.
 
fieldgrade said:
If one wanted to see 1911's in person like Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Guncrafters, etc, where would one go? I see the occasional used example at a few places from time to time, but where would one shop for one? Maybe you can't.

I've bought the majority of my "run of the mill" pistols "sight unseen" in the recent past because that was sometimes the only way to get them, but for the kind of jack the referenced pistols above cost, I'd sure like to see them first.
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My sale thread? :D

https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/les-baer-thunder-ranch-special-45acp.27619/
 
One (SRP in 45) bought directly from Baer I believe, at full price, and one (Premier II in 40) on Gunbroker at a relative bargain. I think alcohol was a factor in the second purchase. :p:D
 
Point Blank in Matthews has a handful of the Carolina Arms Group guns, might have one on the rental wall.

Carolina Sporting Arms on South Blvd generally has a couple Nighhawks.

Hyatt’s generally has a couple from Wilson, Brown and Baer.

Very few of each at each location, but you can get some feel for them.
 
CZfool68 said:
My sale thread? :D

https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/les-baer-thunder-ranch-special-45acp.27619/
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I keep looking at it.

It's one thing for me to cobble together older Colts and Springfields with different thumb and grip safeties, magwells, different mainspring housings, tweak the sear springs, and add sights, because if it doesn't work as well as I'd like I'll put it in the safe and not worry about it. For the bigger bucks I'll be reluctant to dress it up like a Barbie doll like I do with my others.

I guess I'm answering my own question. I'll probably have to order one and wait. Ugh.

To spend that kind of dough it's almost an impulse purchase for me.
 
fieldgrade said:
I keep looking at it.

It's one thing for me to cobble together older Colts and Springfields with different thumb and grip safeties, magwells, different mainspring housings, tweak the sear springs, and add sights, because if it doesn't work as well as I'd like I'll put it in the safe and not worry about it. For the bigger bucks I'll be reluctant to dress it up like a Barbie doll like I do with my others.

I guess I'm answering my own question. I'll probably have to order one and wait. Ugh.

To spend that kind of dough it's almost an impulse purchase for me.
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With guns of that quality you really don't need to mess around unless you have some very specific needs. Other than sights I'd just shoot it as it came. Crazy John at 1911 Heaven is supposed to be a good resource for Baers. If that's they way your going I'd give him a call. I've shot a small sampling of high end 1911's and IMO you really can't go wrong with a DW Valor or the Les Baer TRS like mine for the money. Above those two it becomes diminishing returns. Unless you just have to have a Wilson, Brown etc for pride of ownership. And Wesson will do customs if you have a few special requirements.
 
At one point Powers Firearms in Greensboro had a decent selection of high end 1911s. Haven't been there in years though.
 
CZfool68 said:
With guns of that quality you really don't need to mess around unless you have some very specific needs. Other than sights I'd just shoot it as it came. Crazy John at 1911 Heaven is supposed to be a good resource for Baers. If that's they way your going I'd give him a call. I've shot a small sampling of high end 1911's and IMO you really can't go wrong with a DW Valor or the Les Baer TRS like mine for the money. Above those two it becomes diminishing returns. Unless you just have to have a Wilson, Brown etc for pride of ownership. And Wesson will do customs if you have a few special requirements.
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I put a magwell on every one of them because it will get shot in matches, and a fiber front sight, and a thumb safety if I don't like it since I ride it, see where I end up going with this? lol

It will not be a safe queen.
 
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fieldgrade said:
I put a magwell on every one of them because it will get shot in matches, and a fiber front sight, and a thumb safety if I don't like it since I ride it, see where I end up going with this? lol
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Well they are just guns. If you screw it up a little you'll live. You'd probably be fine with the sights and thumb safety. With Baer their frames are a little different so you'd have to do some research on the magwell. That could get tricky.
 
CZfool68 said:
Well they are just guns. If you screw it up a little you'll live. You'd probably be fine with the sights and thumb safety. With Baer their frames are a little different so you'd have to do some research on the magwell. That could get tricky.
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I ran into that with this new Fusion. Fits my kydex holster totally different, which is easy to remedy, but the S&A magwells that I like wouldn't fit it at all, so I put that on an older Colt that it fit but raised the trigger pull by a full pound because it presses on the sear spring.

People bitch about plastic pistols, but when you buy parts for them, they usually just fit, unlike 1911's that are all oddballs in their own way. If you want to change something on them, look out.
 
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If you are looking for a Les Baer I would call Crazy John. He is a stocking dealer and has more and has handled more Les Baers than most. You can talk with him about what it is you want. If he does not have it he can get it. His pricing is better than most and has good customer service.

http://www.proload.com

Most stores do not stock these guns because the cost is too high and they do not move enough or move them fast enough. You can make more $$$ selling 6 Glocks than one Les Baer or Guncrafter.
 
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fieldgrade said:
If one wanted to see 1911's in person like Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Guncrafters, etc, where would one go? I see the occasional used example at a few places from time to time, but where would one shop for one? Maybe you can't.

I've bought the majority of my "run of the mill" pistols "sight unseen" in the recent past because that was sometimes the only way to get them, but for the kind of jack the referenced pistols above cost, I'd sure like to see them first.
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I have a 6 inch Premier Baer you are welcome to shoot all you want when you get here.
 
This is also why I am going full house custom. I am sending a Colt 70 series to Don Williams and I am going to spec every piece. He will use pretty much whatever I ask him to. I am still working on tweaking my build. It will end up costing about what a Wilson or Guncrafter would cost me but it will be a one of a kind pistol. It is however the opposite of an impulse purchase.

This what I am looking at doing with my build.

Deluxe Trigger Job with new barstock hammer, sear, disconnector & match trigger Harrison Parts
Furnish/Install Standard Match Wilson Barrel, match bushing, link, pin, Barrel Crown & do a reliability package.
Bevel Magazine Well (machine cut @ 15°)
True, High-Cut & Checker Front Strap @ 30 lpi
Machine French Cuts on Slide
Machine Ball Cuts on Slide
Machine Hi-Power-Style Cuts on Front of Slide
Flatten & Serrate Slide Top (in Ghost Arrow pattern)
Furnish/Install Barstock beavertail
Furnish/Install Barstock thumb safety
Furnish/Install Harrison Sights
Add 14K-Gold Bead to C064
Stan Chen Mainspring
Hard-Chrome Complete Pistol – Matte or Brushed Surface
 
wvsig said:
This is also why I am going full house custom. I am sending a Colt 70 series to Don Williams and I am going to spec every piece. He will use pretty much whatever I ask him to. I am still working on tweaking my build. It will end up costing about what a Wilson or Guncrafter would cost me but it will be a one of a kind pistol. It is however the opposite of an impulse purchase.

This what I am looking at doing with my build.

Deluxe Trigger Job with new barstock hammer, sear, disconnector & match trigger Harrison Parts
Furnish/Install Standard Match Wilson Barrel, match bushing, link, pin, Barrel Crown & do a reliability package.
Bevel Magazine Well (machine cut @ 15°)
True, High-Cut & Checker Front Strap @ 30 lpi
Machine French Cuts on Slide
Machine Ball Cuts on Slide
Machine Hi-Power-Style Cuts on Front of Slide
Flatten & Serrate Slide Top (in Ghost Arrow pattern)
Furnish/Install Barstock beavertail
Furnish/Install Barstock thumb safety
Furnish/Install Harrison Sights
Add 14K-Gold Bead to C064
Stan Chen Mainspring
Hard-Chrome Complete Pistol – Matte or Brushed Surface
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I like it! Go big or go home.
 
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dmarbell said:
I probably would make a deal for your gun, if I could trade a gun or two. Guns, I got. Cash, not so much. Cash goes to ammo, entry fees, and baby's new shoes!
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Baby shoes are way overrated. Those little ones are always being held or strolled anyway. :D
 
wvsig said:
This is also why I am going full house custom. I am sending a Colt 70 series to Don Williams and I am going to spec every piece. He will use pretty much whatever I ask him to. I am still working on tweaking my build. It will end up costing about what a Wilson or Guncrafter would cost me but it will be a one of a kind pistol. It is however the opposite of an impulse purchase.

This what I am looking at doing with my build.

Deluxe Trigger Job with new barstock hammer, sear, disconnector & match trigger Harrison Parts
Furnish/Install Standard Match Wilson Barrel, match bushing, link, pin, Barrel Crown & do a reliability package.
Bevel Magazine Well (machine cut @ 15°)
True, High-Cut & Checker Front Strap @ 30 lpi
Machine French Cuts on Slide
Machine Ball Cuts on Slide
Machine Hi-Power-Style Cuts on Front of Slide
Flatten & Serrate Slide Top (in Ghost Arrow pattern)
Furnish/Install Barstock beavertail
Furnish/Install Barstock thumb safety
Furnish/Install Harrison Sights
Add 14K-Gold Bead to C064
Stan Chen Mainspring
Hard-Chrome Complete Pistol – Matte or Brushed Surface
Click to expand...

You are not the first person i’ve Seen do something like this, but you’re the first I’ve asked...why not start with a caspian frame and slide vs a full donor gun? The frame and slide on the Colt won’t be any better than the Caspian.
 
In today's market I think the Dan Wesson guns are the best value in the semi custom 1911 world. You are getting a forged frame/slide, match barrel, tool steel parts with great customer service backing them up if you need it. I think you are getting to the point of diminishing return for the money spent when you look at what an Ed Brown, Les Baer, Nighthawk or a Wilson costs versus a Dan Wesson. Based on what they costs now I'm more inclined to go the route that @wvsig is taking and have a gunsmith custom build a 1911 for me using the parts that I spec'ed out.
 
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JimB said:
You are not the first person i’ve Seen do something like this, but you’re the first I’ve asked...why not start with a caspian frame and slide vs a full donor gun? The frame and slide on the Colt won’t be any better than the Caspian.
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The rollmark... I love the Pony. Also if you ask guys like Jason Burton they think that the current 70 series Colt is the best platform to build on. I have in the last month talked to Don Williams, Ted Yost and Harrison and they all like to start with current Colt 70 series. IMHO they are making them as closest to JMB's spec. They are a nice blank canvas.
 
JimB said:
You are not the first person i’ve Seen do something like this, but you’re the first I’ve asked...why not start with a caspian frame and slide vs a full donor gun? The frame and slide on the Colt won’t be any better than the Caspian.
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There's just something special about a custom 1911 with a pony on it!
 
Amp Mangum said:
In today's market I think the Dan Wesson guns are the best value in the semi custom 1911 world. You are getting a forged frame/slide, match barrel, tool steel parts with great customer service backing them up if you need it. I think you are getting to the point of diminishing return for the money spent when you look at what an Ed Brown, Les Baer, Nighthawk or a Wilson costs versus a Dan Wesson. When you look at what they costs now I'm more inclined to go the route that @wvsig is taking and have a gunsmith custom build a 1911 for me using the parts that I spec'ed out.
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I love Dan Wessons but they are not semi-custom guns. They are "small" production line guns. Which lets be honest is what Wilson, Les Baer, Nighthawk & Guncrafter are. Not that there is anything wrong with that. They build amazing guns. To me if you are going to spend $3,000 on a 1911 you deserve to have it exactly they way you want it not the way you want it within the The Wilson world.
 
Amp Mangum said:
There's just something special about a custom 1911 with a pony on it!
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EXACTLY There are people who sacrifice guns like the WWI Repros for the rollmarks for their "custom gun". Guns that actually beat inflation in terms of value because that Pony and the right rollmark on their one 1911 to rule them all is the whole point of going custom.
 
Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Nighthawk etc are known as semi custom and I would put Dan Wesson in that group as you are getting a gun with top quality parts with some hand fitting versus an assembly line gun.
 
Greensboro Guns & Ammo has Les Baer, Dan Wesson, Ed Brown and Nighthawk custom. Also a few Fusion arms

5511 West Market st. Hope this helps! Regards 18DAI
 
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Never seen any Baers, Wilsons or Nighthawks new in a NC LGS. There used to be a Les Baer dealer that came to Raleigh gun show 20yrs ago. Thats back when Les was building guns so tight it to 2 people to rack the slide.

I bought my preowned Baer off Gunbroker and got a great deal. Bought my 1.5" group Baer off Buds and got a great deal. There are people buying these guns off places like Buds and trying to flip them on GB for a profit. 1911 Addicts website has lots of high end 1911's for sale all the time. Springfield TRP's are fantastic 1911's for the money. Their next level up is the SACS FBI guns and they are $3k and highly sought after.
 
Amp Mangum said:
Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Nighthawk etc are known as semi custom and I would put Dan Wesson in that group as you are getting a gun with top quality parts with some hand fitting versus an assembly line gun.
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I hear you but they mainly push out the standard configurations without any customization. Although if you know who to talk to they will make you a "semi-custom" gun. I bought my first Dan Wesson when no one knew who they were. $700 bought me this... I always refer to Dan Wesson as the gateway drug to high end 1911s. When I bought this people referred to the classic CBOB as the poor mans Ed Brown. Dollar for dollar they are the "best value" but they are not 1911 Nirvana IMHO.
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Those Dan Wesson 1911s are very nice guns. A lot of gun for the money too.

If I were looking to own only one "high end" 1911, it would be a Les Baer. He still takes pride in his guns and Ive never seen a bad one.

Nighthawk......nice guns. But a lot of the price tag is due to the brand name. We have sent a couple back for various problems and blemishes.

I'd go with a Dan Wesson if I was looking for a "work" or EDC 1911. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI
 
Let me also say that there is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to 1911 or really any other platform. I have guns that "out shoot me". I am not capable of shooting to the guns potential. I personally believe that Dan Wessons 1911s are the tipping point. When you go beyond them you are paying big $$$ for small incremental gains. Sometimes it is worth is sometimes not so much.
 
18DAI said:
Those Dan Wesson 1911s are very nice guns. A lot of gun for the money too.

If I were looking to own only one "high end" 1911, it would be a Les Baer. He still takes pride in his guns and Ive never seen a bad one.

Nighthawk......nice guns. But a lot of the price tag is due to the brand name. We have sent a couple back for various problems and blemishes.

I'd go with a Dan Wesson if I was looking for a "work" or EDC 1911. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI
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I agree with that but I will caution that Les Baer is a pain in the ass if you get a problematic gun. He will personally tell you that you did not break in the gun properly. Shoot another 300 rounds, on your dime, and see if it corrects itself. When you get a Baer that runs it is a perfect example of a working mans gun but if you get one that is not quite right it can be a long slog to get it right and even if Les has to fix it personally he will never admit it was wrong to begin with. IMHO YMMV
 
wvsig said:
The rollmark... I love the Pony. Also if you ask guys like Jason Burton they think that the current 70 series Colt is the best platform to build on. I have in the last month talked to Don Williams, Ted Yost and Harrison and they all like to start with current Colt 70 series. IMHO they are making them as closest to JMB's spec. They are a nice blank canvas.
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Perfectly acceptable to want the pony. I shoot a handful of Colts, a Wilson and an STI (just had to try an Apeiro, but haven’t actually shot it yet). Next on the list is a guncrafter no name commander, not quite ready to go full custom.

About the Dan Wesson 1911’s, they were originally a crazy good deal for what they were, but they leveraged that to increase prices. Not that they aren’t good value, they just aren’t the bargain that they once were.
 
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