Random SHTF question

jmccracken1214

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I've been eyeing an ak for one of my next guns. I don't shoot semi autos much. More of a bolt gun guy. Just mainly wanted one to put in the safe with 8-10 mags and 500 rounds of ammo for a just in case.

Saw a 4" AR 9mm on PSA. Got to thinking... That'd be a good option. Up close, out to 100 yards even. Smallee, lighter than an ak. Glock mags are smaller and lighter, ammo is slightly cheaper. And I'd actually probably shoot that a lot more than the AK. ( Fun factor )

How effective do you think the ar9 would be for a SHTF weapon. I'm thinking there's a lot of pros with this set up.
 
9mm @ 1000FPS vs 5.56 @ 3000FPS, and AR's are cheap right now.
I'd get a garden variety 16" AR Wylde chambered, and 5000, not 500 rds of ammo.
Just like keeping extra toilet paper.
 
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4 inch barrel on an AR, not much benefit over a glock. just get a glock and a bunch of 30plus round magazines....
 
I get the “cool” factor on a PCC, I really do. But I’d let the long gun be the long gun and the pistol be the pistol. Glock 17/19 and then an AR or AK. And if you’re dead set on something compact, make it an AR or AK pistol.

That 9mm will never do what the 5.56 or 7.62x39 will. If you’re in a SHTF situation then you need a man stopper, and no pistol round will come close to a rifle round.
 
You really should have at least one 30 caliber rifle in your inventory.

That said if you want a high capacity PCC the calico 9mm with its 100 round barrel mag is effing awesome. Accurate as hell, no recoil and 100 jam free rounds.
 
You really should have at least one 30 caliber rifle in your inventory.

That said if you want a high capacity PCC the calico 9mm with its 100 round barrel mag is effing awesome. Accurate as hell, no recoil and 100 jam free rounds.

My thought process for a SHTF inventory has always been:

9mm pistol
.22 rifle
5.56mm semi auto, be it a Kel-Tec, Ruger, or an AR
.308 bolt action
12ga pump action

And of course, plenty of ammo for all of them. Not saying I’ve got all of these myself (yet), but if I were planning for SHTF, that’s what I’d do.
 
My thought process for a SHTF inventory has always been:

9mm pistol
.22 rifle
5.56mm semi auto, be it a Kel-Tec, Ruger, or an AR
.308 bolt action
12ga pump action

And of course, plenty of ammo for all of them. Not saying I’ve got all of these myself (yet), but if I were planning for SHTF, that’s what I’d do.

Damn you! I don't have a 308 right now. Does my 6.5 Grendel count? Close enough.

And the shottie is my major weakness. :(

Edit - kelt-tec! Did you really just suggest a Kel-tec? No more street cred for you!
 
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Damn you! I don't have a 308 right now. Does my 6.5 Grendel count? Close enough.

And the shottie is my major weakness. :(

Edit - kelt-tec! Did you really just suggest a Kel-tec? No more street cred for you!

Hey, I’ve got a Creedmoor and a .270, but no .308 so if it counts for me then it counts for you.

And I wouldn’t suggest anybody buy a Kel-Tec now with how cheap AR’s are. But if they’ve got one of those Kel-Tec’s that take AR mags then I ain’t mad at ‘em. Having a Kel-Tec is better than not having anything.
 
Hey, I’ve got a Creedmoor and a .270, but no .308 so if it counts for me then it counts for you.

And I wouldn’t suggest anybody buy a Kel-Tec now with how cheap AR’s are. But if they’ve got one of those Kel-Tec’s that take AR mags then I ain’t mad at ‘em. Having a Kel-Tec is better than not having anything.

We could debate that. :D
 
I've been eyeing an ak for one of my next guns. I don't shoot semi autos much. More of a bolt gun guy. Just mainly wanted one to put in the safe with 8-10 mags and 500 rounds of ammo for a just in case.

Saw a 4" AR 9mm on PSA. Got to thinking... That'd be a good option. Up close, out to 100 yards even. Smallee, lighter than an ak. Glock mags are smaller and lighter, ammo is slightly cheaper. And I'd actually probably shoot that a lot more than the AK. ( Fun factor )

How effective do you think the ar9 would be for a SHTF weapon. I'm thinking there's a lot of pros with this set up.

The area you live in, describe it.

Reason I ask is around my area I have both woods (dense and light undergrowth) and open fields.

My 358 win AR is great for the woods portion. Not so much for the open fields. It wouldn’t be a good choice for an enclosed area either.

Pick a semi auto for the area you see yourself having to defend the most.

Then buy your next semi auto for the second most.

What I am getting at is grab both a PCC and something in x39, 223/556, 30cal or higher, etc. never hurts to have more than one of anything lol
 
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4 inch barrel on an AR, not much benefit over a glock. just get a glock and a bunch of 30plus round magazines....

Velocity wise, yea, a 4" 9mm AR is a glock. However, a carbine vs. a handgun as far as hitting stuff fast... the carbine is a huge skill boost.

I've got one of the Ruger PC9s and have run it in a few matches side by side with pistol guys in the same squad. The carbine makes me (literally) 2-3x faster than the pistol guys. Not at 3 yards, but out to 30. In those pro-am timed steel matches you can clear the stage of steel while the average pistol guy is getting half. And that's with 3 matches under my belt with it and zero real practice. It's like magic.

9mm is no 556, but if you want to dominate 0-50 yards against steel with only moderate personal skill, then a PCC is a real solution.

All that said, if the OP wants to buy something as insurance vs. future bans to stuff in the safe and never use, just buy a regular AR and regular mags. Or for SHTF, I would rather start out with a 556 carbine then have to drop back to a 9mm handgun vs. starting out with 9mm even in a carbine just because it's convenient to share ammo. If you've used all 500 rounds out of your 556, you had best have something to show for it, hopefully one of those guys you dropped was carrying ammo. :)
 
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IMHO.......9mm rifles are a lot of fun, cheaper to shoot, COOL, and allow you to shoot pistol courses faster.
As to the OPs question, it is not the right answer for a SHTF situation longgun. Go with something you can pick up spare parts for on the fly. Which brings up the most important SHTF question, will you be on the run, or already at your final AO? All your gear should be based on the expected situation, and you should add a zero onto the end of your ammo count.
Have a great day!
 
Im going to agree with those above that ultra short 9mm PCC are insanely fun, but not what I would want in a true "mad max" level SHTF scenario. I mean, it will work, but since we are able to prepare ahead of time and don't have a "Grab what you can!" mentality about it, at least now.

I have always thought that a very solid SHTF rifle would be an SKS. No magazines to keep up with, can be loaded pretty fast with stripper clips if necessary. The one I have access to (dads) is extremely accurate. Ultra reliable. Not finicky with ammunition of any kind I have ever fired through it. It, and a bag full of loose rounds and you are good to go. No extra "stuff" needed for it. And keeping with the Russian frame of mind, it can be fixed with a hammer and a rock if necessary.
 
Thanks for the input guys. Makes sense on the 9 not being the best choice after reading this thread . I had 3-4 ar15's that I sold off this and last year. Just never liked the 556, not even in the army. Guess I'll pick up an ak for just in case and get me a 9mm PCC at some point

Even with the 4" barrel, I bet it's still way faster putting hits on targets than using a glock
 
No reason to get less than a 8" barrel on any AR based weapon IMO. My 8.5" .300 BLK is darn near too short for a FF handguard as it is. It points like an extension of my arm. One day I'm gonna build one that takes Glock mags and a side charging upper
from Foxtrot Mike.
 
I feel that a PCC is a poor SHTF weapon. I’m an AR guy and am moving from .223 to .300BLK (supersonic) for some of my HD/SHTF due to greater ballistic performance at 200yd or less. Ironically, supersonic .300BLK is pretty similar to 7.62x39. Therefore with your two options, I’d take the AK all day.

I have some PCC and love them, they’re super fun and cheap to feed, I just don’t think I’d grab them first if my life depended on it.
 
I feel that a PCC is a poor SHTF weapon. I’m an AR guy and am moving from .223 to .300BLK (supersonic) for some of my HD/SHTF due to greater ballistic performance at 200yd or less. Ironically, supersonic .300BLK is pretty similar to 7.62x39. Therefore with your two options, I’d take the AK all day.

I have some PCC and love them, they’re super fun and cheap to feed, I just don’t think I’d grab them first if my life depended on it.

I agree. Been reading the posts here and thinking more into it. AR9 would work, but long term, (which likely would never happen anways) An AR15 or AK would be more wise. More likely to find more of them, ammo for them, parts for them than a AR9. Plus, the AK shouldnt need parts, they dont break. :)

I cant bring myself to buy another ar15, not in 223 anyways. I sold off my stash, my mags and ammo. I cant go back! I would like to depend on a 6.5G AR but ammo isnt common enough to fall into the SHTF category. Probably just break down, get an AK, a trijicon reflex and call it a day.
 
I've deadlined more AKs than I can count so don't buy into that. They don't last forever as some think. I'll rather have a milspec AR with couple spare parts that you can get. Not all AK parts are the same between countries. Got a unit bringing in dozens of AKs for me to inspect this week in Astan. If however you're not going to abuse it and only fire moderately then it can be a good choice.

CD
 
I cant bring myself to buy another ar15, not in 223 anyways. I sold off my stash, my mags and ammo. I cant go back!
This right here tells me you are in metal duress and should not have any firearms. Let me know your address and I’ll hold all of your guns until you come to your senses. ;)

AR’s are like adult legos but functional. And they’re stupid cheap right now. Go fix your mistake and buy a couple AR’s.
 
I'll throw something out there. An AR pattern rifle with 9mm upper and a .300 upper. One can for both. Just need a magwell adapter. Gives you flexibility in round choice and take down power. An AR9 with a 4" barrel should keep most 147 subsonic so maybe you don't need the .300 upper, but a 200 or 220 grain bullet has so much knockdown power. I never think about longer range on SHTF just because I live in Raleigh and it's urban. Also why I think a can is important for quietness.
 
serious question. seems like there’s a fair amount of negativity about the utility of 9mm carbines.

wasn’t the MP5 top of the line for assault teams and swat teams?

is it a body armor issue?
 
serious question. seems like there’s a fair amount of negativity about the utility of 9mm carbines.

wasn’t the MP5 top of the line for assault teams and swat teams?

is it a body armor issue?

It is a fair question:

Those teams were/are mostly expecting contact at bad breath range. Not 50-200 yards. At the shorter ranges, coupled with full automatic capability give it an edge in room sweeping tasks.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Would a convertible PCC like the Aero survival rifle be a desirable thing to acquire? I think I’m just overly enamored with the versatility of being able to shoot any of 9mm/.40/.45

Plus it looks like fun.
 
serious question. seems like there’s a fair amount of negativity about the utility of 9mm carbines.

wasn’t the MP5 top of the line for assault teams and swat teams?

is it a body armor issue?

It was until 3 things.
1: 5.56 isn't over penetrative as thought and puts targets down quicker at close range
2: 9mm range is limited when you exit the building and have longer engagement ranges outside.
3: AR15 are cheaper then MP5s



cD
 
I don't want a PPC in a SHTF flare up.
I want a main battle rifle so I can shoot thru whatever you are behind and tag your AZZ .
I want you to know you are going to be walking/running into big bad bullets to get to me.
I read somewhere that handguns are to be used to fight your way to a rifle.
 
I don't want a PPC in a SHTF flare up.
I want a main battle rifle so I can shoot thru whatever you are behind and tag your AZZ .
I want you to know you are going to be walking/running into big bad bullets to get to me.
I read somewhere that handguns are to be used to fight your way to a rifle.
Well, ar15 is out for you lol. 223 isnt going to be going through much at all and tagging anything after the fact.

I know the 15 is probably one of the best options for ammo, weight, capacity... but I just dont care for them that much. Never enjoyed shooting them really. Always been more of a bolt gun guy.

I debate now, maybe a 16-18" ar10 would be a decent option. Little heavier, but im a big guy, little xtra weight for a massive upgrade in ammo energy is worth it, IMO. I could also run the ar10 p mags in my ruger precision :)
 
Well, ar15 is out for you lol. 223 isnt going to be going through much at all and tagging anything after the fact.

I know the 15 is probably one of the best options for ammo, weight, capacity... but I just dont care for them that much. Never enjoyed shooting them really. Always been more of a bolt gun guy.

I debate now, maybe a 16-18" ar10 would be a decent option. Little heavier, but im a big guy, little xtra weight for a massive upgrade in ammo energy is worth it, IMO. I could also run the ar10 p mags in my ruger precision :)
I have ARs, but I also have a FAL, Garand's and 1903's to reach the other side of the tree/car/whatever someone is behind.
 
At the Murder Beach gun show there was a table set up and they were selling ARs OTD for $379. For that price you can take a chance. I'm holding out 'til they start putting em in Happy Meals.
you can get a complete from PSA if you buy lower and upper seperate for $329.

Also, they sale the rifle kits, everything but a stripped lower for $239!
 
Ar15 carbine (12”-16”) and a Glock 19/17. They’re proven and cheap.

These two guns can not be beat for the price/performace ratio. You can have both for under a grand. For stashing away for shtf there are no better choices. If you want a new gun for the collection, that’s fine and there are many choices, but they won’t be more effective.


9mm PCC is great for:
Practicing rifle technique and manipulation for cheaper (I reload 9mm), and shooting paper and steel targets. I love mine and got it strictly for those purposes.

Just my opinions.
 
It was until 3 things.
1: 5.56 isn't over penetrative as thought and puts targets down quicker at close range
2: 9mm range is limited when you exit the building and have longer engagement ranges outside.
3: AR15 are cheaper then MP5s



cD
Also, 300BLK appeared. It's a better close range caliber than 9nm and 5.56 in every way (including suppression, 5.56's handicap) except cost, and doesn't require lower mods, etc.
 
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I am new here so I feel the need to point out an obvious shortcoming of you guys on CFF.
I don't recall being on another gun forum where a discussion such as this would not quickly deteriorate into name calling and plate throwing.

Seriously, the demeanor here is truly refreshing. Glad I found you guys.
 
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