Red Dot & Astigmatism

All I see through my Spitfire is a starburst. I switched to a low power scope and probably won't go back.
 
The big circle DRT reticle with the tiny dot in the center apparently skips the parts of my eye that cause the starburst. I'm ordering another thanks for the link!

ETA: Apparently the spitfire SPR-1301 has been discontinued and replaced with the Spitfire AR. Althought Vortex still lists both on their site the old model is out of stock at most websites.
 
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I recently went to the eye doctor for an exam due to several vision issues I was having (close-up reading, nighttime driving clarity, tired eyes, etc...). I am 56 and just figured that it was "old-codger syndrome". The last eye exam I had I was in my early 30s. I had perfect eyesight with 20-15 vision in both eyes. In this recent exam I was diagnosed with a slight hyperopia (farsighted), my left eye was at 20-20 vision and my right eye was at 20-35. But the main problem was I had a significant astigmatism in my right eye and a very slight astigmatism in my left eye. He suggested a transition lens with a prescription to balance everything out. Other than having a challenge getting used to wearing transition lenses, the improvements have been incredible.

About a year ago I sold my AR-15. I had an Aimpoint Pro on that build and noticed that the red dot was fuzzy, but it wasn't so bad that it caused any real issues so I never did anything about it. About 2 weeks ago I purchased another AR-15. Yesterday I received a Trijicon MRO. I had been reading a lot about red dots and issues related to astigmatisms, so I was very interested to see what impact my new glasses would have. Without my glasses the MRO's red dot (2MOA) looks like a star (not terrible), but with my glasses the dot is very sharp. Without my glasses, the brightness setting makes a huge difference on how flared the dot is. Luckily, I wouldn't have too much of a problem if I was in a situation that I didn't have my glasses available.

One other note..... The clarity of my new Trijicon MRO without my glasses appears to be sharper than how I remember the Aimpoint Pro being. Not a scientific comparison though!
 
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I recently went to the eye doctor for an exam due to several vision issues I was having (close-up reading, nighttime driving clarity, tired eyes, etc...). I am 56 and just figured that it was "old-codger syndrome". The last eye exam I had I was in my early 30s. I had perfect eyesight with 20-15 vision in both eyes. In this recent exam I was diagnosed with a slight hyperopia (farsighted), my left eye was at 20-20 vision and my right eye was at 20-35. But the main problem was I had a significant astigmatism in my right eye and a very slight astigmatism in my left eye. He suggested a transition lens with a prescription to balance everything out. Other than having a challenge getting used to wearing transition lenses, the improvements have been incredible.

About a year ago I sold my AR-15. I had an Aimpoint Pro on that build and noticed that the red dot was fuzzy, but it wasn't so bad that it caused any real issues so I never did anything about it. About 2 weeks ago I purchased another AR-15. Yesterday I received a Trijicon MRO. I had been reading a lot about red dots and issues related to astigmatisms, so I was very interested to see what impact my new glasses would have. Without my glasses the MRO's red dot (2MOA) looks like a star (not terrible), but with my glasses the dot is very sharp. Without my glasses, the brightness setting makes a huge difference on how flared the dot is. Luckily, I wouldn't have too much of a problem if I was in a situation that I didn't have my glasses available.

One other note..... The clarity of my new Trijicon MRO without my glasses appears to be sharper than how I remember the Aimpoint Pro being. Not a scientific comparison though!
I just got my first pair of glasses ever on Friday and they are supposed to help my astigmatism. However, when I looked through a couple cheap red dots I have lying around, the glasses make no difference in the blurred starburst I see instead of a dot. I am going to call the "doctor" on Monday and ask WTF? Nicely, of course. ;)
 
I just got my first pair of glasses ever on Friday and they are supposed to help my astigmatism. However, when I looked through a couple cheap red dots I have lying around, the glasses make no difference in the blurred starburst I see instead of a dot. I am going to call the "doctor" on Monday and ask WTF? Nicely, of course. ;)

Take your glasses off. Now what do you see? After multiple trips to different optometrists, one finally said I have the beginnings of cataracts, which can only be corrected by surgery. So for now, I'm sticking to non-illuminated optics.
 
Take your glasses off. Now what do you see? After multiple trips to different optometrists, one finally said I have the beginnings of cataracts, which can only be corrected by surgery. So for now, I'm sticking to non-illuminated optics.
Pretty much the same with or without the glasses. Maybe my eyes aren't used to the glasses yet? My expectation of immediately being able to see a perfect red dot may be unrealistic too.
 
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I just got my first pair of glasses ever on Friday and they are supposed to help my astigmatism. However, when I looked through a couple cheap red dots I have lying around, the glasses make no difference in the blurred starburst I see instead of a dot. I am going to call the "doctor" on Monday and ask WTF? Nicely, of course. ;)
Additional thoughts.... When I was reading about red dots and astigmatism I learned a couple of other things....
  • Not all red dots are created equal. Especially when it comes to dot clarity and astigmatism. Some people with a very slight astigmatism may not have any issues seeing a crisp red dot with "quality" optics, but definitely had worse issues with lower quality scopes. This difference in optics quality only gets worse with higher degrees of astigmatism.
  • Power level can accentuate the distortion of the red dot. Even with my glasses, if I don't use the lowest brightness setting for the situation, then I start seeing flaring of the image.
  • And to repeat what bigfutz pointed out above, many people thought their red dot clarity issues were related to astigmatism, when it was later diagnosed as early onset of cataracts. Adjustments in your eyeglass prescription for astigmatism will not correct red dot clarity issues related to cataracts.
  • Lastly, not all eyeglass prescriptions and lens quality are created equal. Ask a lot of questions when getting your eye examination. One of the main concerns that I discussed was my issues with driving at night. This was primarily a result of my astigmatism, so my eye doctor knew to make correcting this a priority. There are HUGE differences in the quality of lenses available for prescription eyeglasses. Don't go cheap! Do your homework. Luckily, the location I used had someone very knowledgeable to explain all of this to me. I took about a week to research what she told me before buying mine. I am glad that I did.
I took a chance with the Trijicon MRO, and am glad I did. I wanted to stay as lightweight as possible on my AR pistol. It worked in my situation, but obviously won't work for everyone!
 
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A further thought for those of use with ageing eyesight, I used to have 20/10 up till about 40, then it started slipping. Now I'm confirmed at 20/30 dominant eye with astigmatism and 20/25 in other eye. Since I shoot iron sights only in competition (thems tha rules!) I've found that with a 1.00 set of readers makes the front post very sharp and my shooting improved quite a bit. Its also helped a bit with the red dot not being as big of a starburst.

Dollar Tree optomitrist is my go to supply for shooting glasses now :)
 
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So as most of you know, I am pretty new to shooting. So I just picked up my first red dot (PA advanced microdot) After much excitement, I get it mounted, turn it on and Wham! a blob, no dot in sight. Fast forward, after some research it says try to take a picture of the dot, if it looks the way it should you have an astigmatism. Well, in photos the dot looks like, well.. a dot.

So! what do you guys with a similar issue do? Do you avoid red dots all together or just embrace the blob?

I have terrible vision in general and my astigmatism is crazy bad. So here are my suggestions for ya

Best bet would be one of two options

1) pick something with an etched reticle. Those tend to work better.

2) go to a store and try out different red dots. They all use slightly different specs between the brands and you might find one that works well for you.

There are some brands that work rather well for me, and other, some high name and amazing quality optics that are terrible.. Also try adjusting the brightness. Sometimes I have had better luck for optics that were almost workable to just cut the brightness down some.
 
I had a few exams that said I had astigmatism in my dominant eye and haven't heard a peep about it in 20yrs. I get starburst pretty bad with reddots though. One major thing for me is where my eye is focusing, just looking through in a store I'm looking at the dot, focused on a target at 15+yds the dot is usually crisp, even cranked up.

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Yep, if you can't stand whatever shape your astigmatism turns a red dot into, get a prism sight like the Spitfire 1x with an etched reticle and all will be well.

I can't use regular dots for anything but speed shooting steel but for that they work fine since even a mangled dot is much much smaller than Steel Challenge or 2gun rimfire plate. If that's what you want it for, and you have one, just try it. You'll probably never notice after you carefully zero it. That's the last time you will ever really look at the dot or notice the shape.
 
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They stopped making the Leupold Prismatic though didn't they? I think Athlon and Burris still make some. No idea how good they are though.

Indeed, they did. Don't know why as it is sweet, imo.

Burris makes the ARX1. It's cool and well liked in 3gun factory (non magnified optic) division, although there is mixed views of the reticle. Burris was rumored to be working on new reticles for it, to be released...............a long time ago!
Never seen an Athlon one at 1x.
 
Indeed, they did. Don't know why as it is sweet, imo.

Burris makes the ARX1. It's cool and well liked in 3gun factory (non magnified optic) division, although there is mixed views of the reticle. Burris was rumored to be working on new reticles for it, to be released...............a long time ago!
Never seen an Athlon one at 1x.
I would like to have seen one of the Leupolds, bummer.
I'll have to keep an eye on :rolleyes: the new reticles from Burris! Athlon has 3 listed, a 3.9x, 3x and 1x. I have never seen one in person. I believe @hlpressley could help us out on that though.
 
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I would like to have seen one of the Leupolds, bummer.
I'll have to keep an eye on :rolleyes: the new reticles from Burris! Athlon has 3 listed, a 3.9x, 3x and 1x. I have never seen one in person. I believe @hlpressley could help us out on that though.

That is VERY interesting. I had not seen that. I think I like the reticle better than the Vortex.

Someone buy one and review it!
 
Indeed, they did. Don't know why as it is sweet, imo.

Burris makes the ARX1. It's cool and well liked in 3gun factory (non magnified optic) division, although there is mixed views of the reticle. Burris was rumored to be working on new reticles for it, to be released...............a long time ago!
Never seen an Athlon one at 1x.

The Leupold PGS is being made but only for gov't/mil sales. the Taiwanese military is buying one for every service rifle, a couple other foreign militaries have contracts for the PGS...Perhaps when the gov't contracts have been filled, Leupold might make them available, once a again, for the US civilian market.

I have tested mine on my 20" A4 out to 375m and it's dead on for MOT (Minute of Torso) (I have set the PGS with a 25m/300m BZO w/ M193 type ammo). Out to 150m, skull poppers are very easily achievable from the prone and a supported (Alice pack) position.

I really like the PGS, find one if you can.

PS: My brother has the Vortex on his truck gun (M4 type) and really likes it, he says it's very durable and shock/impact resistant....and knowing his clumsy ass, I'd say it's been field tested for drops & impacts...
 
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I have fairly mild astigmatism in both eyes. I've never had good luck with standard red dot sights. I can see the dot, but its difficult to focus on and difficult for me to maintain accuracy with.

Prisim type optics I don't have any issues with at all. They work as well for me as regular scopes with crosshairs do. I've got Vortex Spitfire 1X prism optics mounted on three of my AR's and I'm very pleased with them.
 
For $50 on amazon, it is worth a try!
I do wear my glasses when i shoot. i like thisTSR.
This was at 50 yards.
You can't tell which group I took a little more time with target acquisition.
I didn't have a sighting stand so i didn't bother adjusting it.
f982328667d9d6dc0211f4b05dd225a4.jpg


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So as most of you know, I am pretty new to shooting. So I just picked up my first red dot (PA advanced microdot) After much excitement, I get it mounted, turn it on and Wham! a blob, no dot in sight. Fast forward, after some research it says try to take a picture of the dot, if it looks the way it should you have an astigmatism. Well, in photos the dot looks like, well.. a dot.

So! what do you guys with a similar issue do? Do you avoid red dots all together or just embrace the blob?

I have the same red dot as you. I see the problem at high brightness, but it goes away if I dial the brightness down. And the brightness that causes the problem depends on ambient light.
 
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